The Man of Lawlessness, The Son of Perdition

Greetings gentle members and visitors of ATS. May you all have peace and be blessed.

While Jesus was on earth he spoke of an enemy that would come after he had went away and plant weeds among the seeds of wheat he had sown during his 3 1/2 year earthly ministry. He also said that from the Christian congregation he had founded while on earth wolves in sheep's clothing would arise.

This evidently started early in the formation of the Christian congregation, while the apostles were still alive. Wicked men and imposters had penetrated the congregation and an apostasy, or turning away from the truth had already begun to form in the congregation. 1 Corinthians 15 was written to quell one of those apostasies. The influence of the Epicureans had infiltrated the congregation that taught there is no resurrection of the dead. Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 reprimands those Christians that were causing divisions and not speaking the truth with regards the sleeping in death, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Later some in the congregation were teaching that Jehovah's day, and the return of Jesus Christ was near at hand. And it is possible that false teachers using trickery were writing letters to the congregations in Paul's name saying that such was the case. Paul had to intervene and explain to the first century congregation that Jehovah's day was not near at hand. In fact it would not come unless first all those who were acting as a restraint on the apostasy in the congregation died off, that is the apostles, and then the mystery of the "man of lawlessness" would work out and be revealed.

This "man of lawlessness" is a select religious group of people. We know that because Paul speaks about the apostasy that had already began in the congregation and it would continue until Christ's presence centuries later:

"However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here.

Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things?"- 2 Thessalonians 2:1-5.

Who is this "man of lawlessness?"

"And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time. True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way. Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence."-2 Thessalonians 2:6-8.

Paul indicated that the mystery of this man was already at work in the congregation, but while the apostles were alive they worked in unison to keep the apostasy from overrunning the congregation. He wrote his letter to the Thessalonians in 51 C. E. Decades later, around 90 C. E. the apostle John writing his letters said that it was the "last hour" of the apostolic era, and that that apostasy was largely in progress:

"Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour."-1 John 2:18. See also 2 John 2:7.

This "man of lawlessness" was a mystery to the congregation at that time because while the apostasy had already started to develop it had not become fully manifest what it would be. And while the apostles such as Paul, John, Jude, and Peter who also wrote about fighting this apostasy, were alive they kept it at bay. - Please see 2 Peter 2:1-3 and Jude 8-13.

After the apostolic era had ended, as the last of the apostles John died around 100 C. E., the apostasy was in full bloom. Teachers from within the congregation continued to sow discord and sects drawing off people to follow themselves, and disowning the master Jesus Christ. They let Greek philosophy influence their teachings, and those of pagan Rome. Until there were dozens of sects of Christianity warring against each other throughout the 2nd and 3rd centuries. A good read about the fracturing of the Christian congregation can be found in Edward Gibbon's works The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.

Finally the mystery of the "man of lawlessness" began to solidify and manifest itself when Roman Pagan Emperor Constantine took the apostate Catholic Church and made it the State religion.

Let us delve a little deeper into her apostasy. In the first century the Christian congregation had elders and ministerial servants who were spiritual older men, and their helpers who took the lead in the congregation. They did not hold special titles, or wear special garb, or consider themselves leaders of the congregation. Like Jesus they did not have special theological training. They were spiritual older men who were there to help the younger ones mature, and to give spiritual healing to the infirm and the weak Christians.

With the apostasy the clergy distinction of the Jews infiltrated the congregation, as well as the pagan setup of religious Rome. A clergy class began to develop from this apostasy. A crowned pope began to rule over a college of cardinals. These were drawn from hundreds of bishops and archbishops, who were in turn drawn from seminary-trained priests. A mystic clergy class after the end of the apostolic era had taken over. It was not patterned after the first century Christian congregation, but rather pagan religious systems.

By the 3rd century the common class of Christians had been regulated to laity status. The "man of lawlessness" began to raise itself up over the people and grab the reins of power. With time schisms and rifts took place and hundreds of fracturing sects from this apostate Church formed, and each sect took with it the clergy-laity distinction down into this time of the end.

Indeed as Paul foretold this "man of lawlessness" raised himself up to a godlike position. Is this an exaggeration?:

"He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god."-2 Thessalonians 2:4-5.

Notice what Lucio Ferraris wrote in his ecclesiastical dictionary:

The pope is, as it were, God on earth, the only prince of the faithful of Christ, the greatest king of all kings...The pope can sometimes counteract the divine law.

Jesus and his apostles were ordinary every day Jews who did not wear special garb or stand out from the people. But the clergy wear special garb, usually black. The pope allows people to bow to him. To kiss his hand, his ring, and carry him on a special chair. How different from Peter when he appeared to the Roman centurion Cornelius who bowed down before him and he said:

As Peter entered, Cornelius met him, fell down at his feet, and did obeisance to him. But Peter lifted him up, saying: “Rise; I too am just a man.” -Acts 10:25-26.

While the first-century Christian followers of Jesus practiced a religion of peace, refusing to get involved in the politics and wars of the day, picking up arms and fighting each other, the apostate "man of lawlessness" was not like that. True followers of Christ would be known for the love they had among each other, refusing to pick up arms and fighting each other. They look forward to Jesus' kingdom rule over the earth that will fix all of mankind's problems. And thus they remain united in love and unity and peace.

Concerning the first century Christian congregation professor of theology Peter de Rosa wrote:

“Shedding blood was a grievous sin. This was why Christians opposed gladiatorial combat. . . . While war and the use of force were necessary to preserve Rome, Christians felt unable to join in. . . . Christians considered themselves, like Jesus, messengers of peace; in no circumstances could they be agents of death.”

Did the apostate "man of lawlessness" behave in such a fashion?

The Crusades

The Crusades of the 11th-13th century is a horrid mark of tremendous bloodshed the members of Christendom perpetuated in the name of Jesus Christ against other humans. Hundreds of thousands were slaughtered during those crusades including the thousands of children forced to to participate in the "Children's Crusade" of the year 1212.

The Inquisition

In the 13th century the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) sanctioned a disgustingly God-dishonoring horror: The Inquisition. It lasted for six centuries and spread over from Europe to the Americas.

“The church was responsible for persecuting Jews, for the Inquisition, for slaughtering heretics by the thousand, for reintroducing torture into Europe as part of the judicial process. . . . Popes appointed and sacked even emperors, demanded that they impose Christianity on their subjects under the threat of torture and death. . . . The cost to the Gospel message was horrendous.

Concerning just one pope, Pope Innocent III's reign:

“It has been reckoned that in the last and most savage persecution under [Roman] Emperor Diocletian [third century] about two thousand Christians perished, worldwide. In the first vicious incident of Pope Innocent’s Crusade [against “heretics” in France] ten times that number of people were slaughtered. . . . It comes as a shock to discover that, at a stroke, a pope killed far more Christians than Diocletian. . . . [Innocent] had no qualms about using Christ’s name to do everything Christ objected to.
...in the pope’s name, [the inquisitors] were responsible for the most savage and sustained onslaught on human decency in the history of the race”

Vicars of Christ—The Dark Side of the Papacy

The Dominican inquisitor Torquemada in Spain appointed in 1483 is said to have reigned for 15 years and slaughtered over 114,000 people during that time.

Also lawless was the part that the clergy played in the violent institution of slavery. The nations of Christendom kidnapped many thousands of Africans, took them far from their own lands, and for centuries brutalized them physically and mentally as slaves. Relatively few of the clergy class actively opposed. Some of them even claimed that it was God’s will.

“In the past local Catholic hierarchies almost always supported the wars of their nations, blessing troops and offering prayers for victory, while another group of bishops on the other side publicly prayed for the opposite outcome. . . . The contradiction between the Christian spirit and the conduct of war . . . seems increasingly clear to many, as weapons grow more brutal.

The New York Times.

The clergy of Christendom has indeed been revealed as the spawn of Satan. The "man of lawlessness." Jesus talking of that spiritually dead composite group of people:

“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’"-Matthew 7:21-23.

I think the man of sin would be in a organisation pretending to be a church harbouring child abusers
That organisation allowing those evil perpetrators to get away with their crimes and even still protect them from the justice system
Deny children justice and claim they are Gods church when clearly the man of evil controls the organisation
www.theatlantic.com...

JWorg is lawless, it is run by the man of lawlessness
JWorg is Satan’s church

originally posted by: Raggedyman
I think the man of sin would be in a organisation pretending to be a church harbouring child abusers
That organisation allowing those evil perpetrators to get away with their crimes and even still protect them from the justice system
Deny children justice and claim they are Gods church when clearly the man of evil controls the organisation
www.theatlantic.com...

JWorg is lawless, it is run by the man of lawlessness
JWorg is Satan’s church

I did a little checking. It doesn't seem to matter what cult does it, members will turn a blind eye.

The child abuse files were collected after the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society—the organization that oversees the Jehovah’s Witnesses—sent a request in March 1997 to all of its United States congregations requesting that each congregation write a detailed report about anyone within the religion who had been accused of child molestation and send it to the headquarters in the special blue envelope, according to The Atlantic.

Watchtower has maintained the database, which includes the names, congregation locations and details of the allegations against those suspected of abusing children, for more than two decades, according to Reveal.

Covered up at the highest level; can't lose that member money!

Another from 1997 allegedly instructed elders to inform other elders if a known child sex abuser moved from one congregation to another but to withhold the information from others in the congregation, according to The Philadelphia Inquirer.

[www.oxygen.com...]

I see after raging at you and calling you a liar randomuser deleted his post. Maybe he did his own fact checking and learned the truth? Or decided to peddle his wares elsewhere?

originally posted by: randomuser
You and nuggett have come to most of my threads and even many of my posts to name call me and change the subject. All though off-subject posts are usually removed you are always allowed to troll my posts. If you go through my thread history both of you are here constantly with the same name-calling and lies. The moderators of this board really should deal with it.

Point out inaccuracies and fallacies of your interpretation doesn't make us liars; it make us challengers to what we see as a twisted version of what you're preaching. Jehovah Witness religion is listed as a cult religion, whether you want to accept it or not.

If I were a member of a church that may be covering up child abuse, I think before calling people liars I'd want to do a deep dive myself and see if there's any truth to it.

How Policies Of The Jehovah's Witnesses Keep Child Sexual Abuse From Police
From clergy-penitent privilege to disfellowshipping, here are the findings of a five-year investigation into the child abuse policies of Jehovah's Witnesses.

There are some very informative videos at the link you might want to check out if you're open to learning the truth.

I'm sorry it offends you that others find your threads spreading one mans made up version of the word of God upsetting and call you out on it. And just so you don't feel singled out, check the other religious threads; every one is full of people stating differing opinions-granted, not all of them deal with certified cults.

You never did answer my past question: does a JW's proselytizing online count in place of door knocking? They seem to be growing in number.

originally posted by: nugget1

originally posted by: randomuser
You and nuggett have come to most of my threads and even many of my posts to name call me and change the subject. All though off-subject posts are usually removed you are always allowed to troll my posts. If you go through my thread history both of you are here constantly with the same name-calling and lies. The moderators of this board really should deal with it.

Point out inaccuracies and fallacies of your interpretation doesn't make us liars; it make us challengers to what we see as a twisted version of what you're preaching. Jehovah Witness religion is listed as a cult religion, whether you want to accept it or not.

If I were a member of a church that may be covering up child abuse, I think before calling people liars I'd want to do a deep dive myself and see if there's any truth to it.

How Policies Of The Jehovah's Witnesses Keep Child Sexual Abuse From Police
From clergy-penitent privilege to disfellowshipping, here are the findings of a five-year investigation into the child abuse policies of Jehovah's Witnesses.

There are some very informative videos at the link you might want to check out if you're open to learning the truth.

I'm sorry it offends you that others find your threads spreading one mans made up version of the word of God upsetting and call you out on it. And just so you don't feel singled out, check the other religious threads; every one is full of people stating differing opinions-granted, not all of them deal with certified cults.

You never did answer my past question: does a JW's proselytizing online count in place of door knocking? They seem to be growing in number.

I don't mind if you want to question scripture. In fact we have had some good conversations. And I respect your views and beliefs. And have stated that in the past and do it here. I have no problem with you disagreeing, or even bringing up counter-arguments. But I don't see any of that here in this thread Or in the other threads. I actually made a small list of posts I was talking about and brought it to the attention of the moderators and DontTreadOnMe took it and looked at and then deleted it. So the moderators know what I am talking about. It is the constant intrusion not only into my threads but just into random posts when I'm talking with other posters. You do it once in awhile. And that other fellow does it whenever he is online and sees anything I post. I was starting to get a really good list of posts to prove what I was referring to.

You do talk with me once in awhile. And you say you disagree with the Bible and scripture. I don't mind that at all. Most people do.

The other poster that posted here doesn't even have the dignity to do that. It is just constant off-topic talk about child sex abuse on every single subject I make, or anything I talk with with other posters, on totally unrelated subjects. I don't recall the poster ever trying to make an effort to interact with me as a person. Just following me around trolling me with child sex abuse, child sex abuse, over and over and over and over and over.

That is not 'pointing out inaccuracies and fallacies of your interpretation.'

In another thread you posted that Russell didn't believe Jesus was resurrected. You didn't say it you just wrote someone else claimed it. When I brought to your attention that was a lie you started to name call and stopped communicating. That is what I have to deal with. That is not being honest at all.

a reply to: randomuser

When I brought to your attention that was a lie you started to name call

Let's be honest here; you didn't say that was a lie, you called me a 'liar!'. I have not called you any names to my recollection.

Yes, I vehemently disagree with twisted interpretations of the Bible and I can understand why it bothers you so much to have the fact you're preaching from a Jehovah Witness version of the Bible.

People have a right to know that what they're reading here comes from a cult. It's your choice to believe you're special and on the 'right' path, but the fact that you do it so deceptively and go off in an attacking rage when called out is certainly not what one would expect such a 'religious' person to display.

Perhaps you take criticism of your beloved religion too seriously? You shouldn't; I'd do the same thing for someone preaching Scientology, Mormonism or any religion that deviates so far from written scripture and is overly controlling. No free will is allowed in these religions without extreme consequences, such as 'shunning'.
JW is one of the most controlling religious groups there is, IMHO. Their misogynistic views and those of the Mormon religion are probably why men so vehemently defend those faiths; again, my opinion.

If you're truly interested in honesty, please do a deeper dive into the creation of your chosen religion and take an honest, unbiased look at the information. Watch the videos from an ex JW who suffered sexual abuse from an elder and how it was covered up. The truth is coming out, but not all will be open to it-as with Catholicism.

And maybe stop going on a tangent every time someone posts something you don't like and calling them 'LIAR!' If my beliefs make me a liar, yours make you a liar. You contradict your faith every time you go on a rant and get your posts deleted for 'serious terms and conditions' violation. Not a good look for the faith you're trying to sell to people; it almost seems to be hypocritical.

a reply to: nugget1

I wont deny it happens at many different churches, my issue is jworg protects the perpetrators and calls itself "Gods Church".
So much evidence to that, from so many different sources, its undeniable
Calling yourself "Gopds church" while harbouring these offenders would indicate its satans church to me is offensive

I( am no Catholic apologiost, at least thet eventually held their members accountable, handed them over to civil justice systems
Protestant churches have their own issues but, I dont think any governing body is harboring criminal perpetrators from civil justice like jworg does
Randomuser supports that organisation and it needs to be called out for what it is, jw,pedophillia organisation

If you want to discuss this issue with me random, feel free, start a thread, open it up

originally posted by: nugget1

You never did answer my past question: does a JW's proselytizing online count in place of door knocking? They seem to be growing in number.

I have asked the same and randomuser has so far, not answered the question
Thats an indication of his disonesty and the fact its just preaching, against terms and conditions on ats
Clearly doesnt care about respecting people or this site
The sad thing, its not his agenda and its because he is fearful of the ramifications of what happens if he doesnt

Just a bunch of loaded language and revisionist history, without links to source material, from the Jehovahs Witness cult handbook. So much error and so many lies in such a little space. Too much nonsense to be bothered taking it apart point by point. That would take too long for me to want to be bothered. I will say that the most amusing fabrication was the OP calling the early Catholic Church 'apostate'. Hysterical ... since it is from the Catholic Church in 397 AD that the Holy Bible came from. Catholic men in the Catholic council of Carthage, with guidance directly from The Holy Spirit, wrote and put together the Holy Bible. OBVIOUSLY it wasn't 'apostate' since the Holy Spirit guided it in God's Work on Earth.

I'm trying to decide if it's best to ignore these proselytizing Jehovahs Witness 'end times cult' threads or to refute their many errors, which is pretty easy. Try to save a soul from itself, or don't feed the hysteria so it'll go away? I guess it'll depend on my mood.

a reply to: FlyersFan

The whole religion was built on a lie and total brainwashing control, created in 1879 by Charles Russell. At the age of 17 he tried to convert to atheist but 'lost his faith'. At age 20 he began to preach his own version of the Bible, convincing believers there is no hell. How convenient,

Russell was not a Scripture scholar, learned in the Greek language. Under oath in court at Hamilton, Ontario, Canada in 1913 he declared in support of his claims to be an expert Scripture scholar that he knew Greek. Handed a Greek New Testament, he was forced to admit that he did not know even the Greek alphabet. Neither did he know Latin or Hebrew. He wrote on the Bible, but every acknowledged Scripture scholar in the universities of the world today will agree that Russell's explanations are for the most part quite contrary to the obvious meaning of the words of the Bible. Russell was never a scholar in the accepted sense of the word.

Perhaps for the usual reasons that seems to be behind religion?:

Nor did Russell lead a saintly life such as we might expect of the founder of a religious sect. His followers write: "Russell must have had a rare capacity for business. Before he was thirty years old he had expanded his father's clothing store in Alleghany, Pennsylvania and rapidly established four more. By the time he was thirty he had sold out the chain for 250,000 dollars, which in the 1880s was equivalent to more than a million dollars today" (Marley Cole,

originally posted by: nugget1
At age 20 he began to preach his own version of the Bible, convincing believers there is no hell. How convenient,

WOW. Talk about anti-biblical beliefs!

According to the Bible, hell is a real place of conscious, eternal suffering
(Matt. 5:22; 25:41, 46; Jude 7; Rev. 14:11; 20:10, 14).

11 Beliefs You Should Know About Jehovahs Witnesses

The OP is always screaming at people to examine their own faiths and beliefs,
but doesn't examine his own anti-biblical beliefs while claiming to follow the Bible.

The Gospel Coalition

I'm reading at this site and I just found out that the Jehovahs Witness' REWROTE the Bible. I didn't know that. They are using their own version that fits their own narrative. No wonder they are so messed up.

John 1:1 in the Bible says -
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

their book says -
"In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god"

Two totally different meanings.

a reply to: FlyersFan

To be fair, all religions are evolving. What parishioner believe today could totally different than what they're required to believe tomorrow.

Back in the day, women weren't allowed to darken a church's door wearing pants. Getting a tattoo or piercing your ears would get you excommunicated on on a straight path to hell.

Gays were especially ostracized and it was around that time that all churches began to suffer from dwindling membership-and their money source. The solution was to change the interpretation of God's word. Now, pretty much anything goes.

Dare I say all religions seem to fall under the definition of 'cult' when you consider how far they stray from the written Word and continually change the rules?

People aren't taught to follow Spirit; they're taught to follow man's interpretation and church doctrine. Most of humanity seems to be made up of 'followers' who prefer to transfer power of their lives' to what they see as a more competent person/organization to tell them what's 'right think'.

I personally feel people who are offering their brand of salvation should be upfront about the flavor they're offering, not obfuscating it or getting upset when flaws are pointed out.