The free will of the immoral.

Obeying the law is the free will of the immoral. Naturally they fall under the law since the moral compass has not been installed yet. They learn the things to make civilisations function or get casted out into solitude or prisons. The moral know what is right and what is wrong, they don't need the law to understand what is right to do, they have a moral compass. The immoral, free to do whatever they like know what's coming for them when they transgress the rules of society. Currently with a lot of cameras installed in public domains or even friends or strangers filming evil deeds they can get traced and found with the expected results. Society is not only economy but also brotherhood. The use of drugs and alcohol can do a lot of damage and ccan make things escalate. Falling victim to unrighteousness can cause frustration and vengeance. People better watch out what they do because life can turn into hell. Terrible things happen every day and on top of that there are many occurences causing frustration. We are standing on top of eachother and mediation is key. What is expected of eachother and how we choose to survive.

a reply to: Untun

I assume you are one of the moral ones?
Can you please explain what right and wrong is? Seems you think you have, without the need to think about or discuss it or come to a census on it, an absolute grasp on what right and wrong is in every situation?
So spit it out there might be books written about you 100 years and more in the future if that'd be true.
Wow me please
with examples so i don't get confused

a reply to: Untun

Yes, and I bet you're on the side that knows what right and wrong are, no mistake.

Don't you know that everyone thinks that, and their opinions differ across the entire spectrum of possibility?

Judas, Benedict Arnold, Hitler: they, too, all thought they were doing the right thing.

Lots more stairs for you to climb, brother.

originally posted by: Untun
Obeying the law is the free will of the immoral...

Ok, from a non-religious point of view, doing what is good for the society and the community is good in itself. And the laws are an extension of the society meant to keep it good and to keep it functioning well for everyone.

From a religious point of view, particularly Christian, you have to obey the law. God mandates it.

Straight from the Bible:

Obey the government, for God is the one who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. 2 So those who refuse to obey the laws of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow. 3 For the policeman does not frighten people who are doing right; but those doing evil will always fear him. So if you don’t want to be afraid, keep the laws and you will get along well. 4 The policeman is sent by God to help you. But if you are doing something wrong, of course you should be afraid, for he will have you punished. He is sent by God for that very purpose. 5 Obey the laws, then, for two reasons: first, to keep from being punished, and second, just because you know you should.

You quote the Bible in your signature. How can you be so unaware of its text?

a reply to: Untun

Well other points were already covered so...

Obeying the law is the free will of the immoral. Naturally they fall under the law since the moral compass has not been installed yet.

This needs disambiguation. The instilling of moral compasses through legal code vs. scripture is one in the same. Law is always inspired by the gods but separate.

I look at Dunbar's Number, which says the human limit for empathetic relationships is 150 people. Not at all disconnected, this was about the typical size limit of hominid clans before the Holocene. Legal codes started with societies to make up the difference after that number was significantly exceeded. Insert legal and moral codes.

Switch gears a little. My favorite morality is Mesoamerican...

"We are sure the sun needs a sacrifice to rise. We need our sacrifice to be prominent. Huitzilopochtli needs human blood to move the sun across the sky."

"Only high value criminals and POW's first, then work down to the woman and children."

But that really wasn't their code...

The Aztecs had a fairly sophisticated code of law. There were numerous laws including laws against stealing, murder, drunkenness, and property damage. A system of courts and judges determined guilt and punishments.

That was their code. Aztecs had "free choice", but if they were to come under the punishment of the courts, they may end up getting used to make the sun rise.

Huitzilopochtli may have "guided" them, told them where to build Tenochtitlan, but there was still a social code that arose (inspired by the gods, but autonomous) to keep things going.

The Catholics fixed their wicked savage existence though... and slaughtered their society to teach them about God's love. The few that survived had pretty much the same law and order code, only some guy died once for everyone and now all you have to do is drink his blood analog, no longer needing the daily sacrifice, because wine and crackers replaced decapitation.

Begging the question... Did the Aztecs really believe Huitzilopochtli needed a sacrifice to move the sun, or had it found its niche as a cultural control device and criminality deterrent?

a reply to: Untun

Some quality angry hateful comments already, lol, how can one not know the difference between the moral and immoral?

Lets see..

Narcissistic tendencies.
Complete short-sightedness.
The inability to see past themselves, like a wanton selfish child.
A heart filled with hate.
Wickedness.
Sociopathic tendencies.
Low intelligence.
I will stop there.

How do you explain the difference between the moral and the immoral to people who display the above? You can't, but it's entertaining reading there comments none the less.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Untun

I assume you are one of the moral ones?
Can you please explain what right and wrong is? Seems you think you have, without the need to think about or discuss it or come to a census on it, an absolute grasp on what right and wrong is in every situation?
So spit it out there might be books written about you 100 years and more in the future if that'd be true.
Wow me please
with examples so i don't get confused

Don't you know that right is right and wrong is wrong? Do you need someone to explain to you what's right and what's wrong?

For example if you go and steal is this right or wrong?

originally posted by: Mahogany

originally posted by: Untun
Obeying the law is the free will of the immoral...

Ok, from a non-religious point of view, doing what is good for the society and the community is good in itself. And the laws are an extension of the society meant to keep it good and to keep it functioning well for everyone.

From a religious point of view, particularly Christian, you have to obey the law. God mandates it.

Straight from the Bible:

Obey the government, for God is the one who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. 2 So those who refuse to obey the laws of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow. 3 For the policeman does not frighten people who are doing right; but those doing evil will always fear him. So if you don’t want to be afraid, keep the laws and you will get along well. 4 The policeman is sent by God to help you. But if you are doing something wrong, of course you should be afraid, for he will have you punished. He is sent by God for that very purpose. 5 Obey the laws, then, for two reasons: first, to keep from being punished, and second, just because you know you should.

You quote the Bible in your signature. How can you be so unaware of its text?

You know the distinction between right and wrong?

a reply to: Untun

Humans require sets of rules and laws if they wish to interact with one another in groups.

Else anarchy prevails and survival of the fittest becomes the colour of the day.

And that's just how we roll as a species I'm afraid.

Terrible things happen when you take away the warning labels and instructions.

And generally to the weakest members of our respective societies.

a reply to: Untun

Double, ma bad.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Untun

Humans require sets of rules and laws if they wish to interact with one another in groups.

Else anarchy prevails and survival of the fittest becomes the colour of the day.

And that's just how we roll as a species I'm afraid.

Terrible things happen when you take away the warning labels and instructions.

And generally to the weakest members of our respective societies.

True

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Untun

I assume you are one of the moral ones?
Can you please explain what right and wrong is? Seems you think you have, without the need to think about or discuss it or come to a census on it, an absolute grasp on what right and wrong is in every situation?
So spit it out there might be books written about you 100 years and more in the future if that'd be true.
Wow me please
with examples so i don't get confused

Don't you know that right is right and wrong is wrong? Do you need someone to explain to you what's right and what's wrong?

For example if you go and steal is this right or wrong?

I think the ‘do unto others as you would have them do unto you’ is called the Golden Rule for a reason.

However, we break this constantly. Unless you make your own clothes and you’re not using a smart phone (child labor/slavery) or you don’t eat meat or use animal byproducts (if you were a cow, would you want to be born on a factory farm to be raised as food?)

Furthermore murder is wrong but we have stipulations for this (self defense) or stealing is wrong but we also have stipulations for this morally (we give a pass to a man stealing food for his starving children)…morality is complex.

a reply to: Untun

We are standing on top of eachother and mediation is key. What is expected of each other and how we choose to survive.

Shoot! Looks like Simple question about religion got closed or something.

I'll cross post then.


The question was about why cults kill (loosely)
so I wrote:

After carefully weighing
my life on the scales,

I do believe that if I were but 40 years younger
I would go to Ukraine
join a brigade
and take up arms against Russia.

And if it so happened
that the gods discovered me
dying in such a way
that it would be okay.

======
My cult is:

The New World Order of Liberal Democracy

as represented by Geneva Conventions, United Nations, International Criminal Court, and NATO.

Our morals are based on our historical time and place. What we live.

a reply to: Mahogany
Please source where that came from.
Inquiring minds have to know.

a reply to: Peeple
Do you really have to have morality explained to you ?

During the Tang dynasty in China, from the emperor on down, there were exceptionally strong moral standards and they almost no need for law enforcement.

Laws do not drive morals as people can only govern their own hearts. People literally rape, murder, and abuse drugs in prison -- no law or punishment short of death will stop the immoral from acting so.

a reply to: Untun

Originally posted by Untun
Obeying the law is the free will of the immoral. Naturally they fall under the law since the moral compass has not been installed yet

You’d have to ask the question “Are they even exercising their own freewill ?”…as many may only be obeying the law out of fear…fear of the consequences of whatever punishment i.e prison or eternity in hell etc…

It’s hard to exercise freewill, when you are only going along with it because you are afraid of the punishment…

For me freewill doesn’t even come into the equation…but if they’re only obeying the Law out of fear of the punishments and/or the promises of paradise etc…, then that is immoral imo…

-JC

Nothing is forbidden. Everything is allowed. ~ last words of Hasan-i Sabbah.

Hasan-i Sabbah was a religious and military leader, founder of the Nizari Ismaili state. Perhaps the most powerful of men of his time, and quite the philosopher.

Sometimes called The Old Man Of The Mountain, and head of the Order of Assassins.

My thoughts on Sabbah's last words are: well, that would explain a lot of things we see in this world.

It also says that personal ethics and morals, and the laws of society are all we have. So we had best teach ourselves to behave in a civilised way towards our fellow man and creatures.

Personally I think the old fella is probably correct.

a reply to: Untun

There's a disturbance in the force. People are afraid and turning mean. When Morality follows ideology, justification is the operating principle.

God help us...

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Untun

I assume you are one of the moral ones?
Can you please explain what right and wrong is? Seems you think you have, without the need to think about or discuss it or come to a census on it, an absolute grasp on what right and wrong is in every situation?
So spit it out there might be books written about you 100 years and more in the future if that'd be true.
Wow me please
with examples so i don't get confused

Don't you know that right is right and wrong is wrong? Do you need someone to explain to you what's right and what's wrong?

For example if you go and steal is this right or wrong?

You obviously never concerned yourself with ethics. Or you would know that it is a huge field of studies...

For example if you go and steal is this right or wrong?

If you want to talk examples:
You and your family ended up on the streets be it through some natural disaster or whatever it doesn't matter. One more day without food and your wife and youngest are going to starve.
Across the street is a bakery who put out their unsold goods at night, taking it from their property is still stealing.
Is it the moral thing to do to let your family starve, because the simple minded average in society tells you stealing is morally wrong?