Sect of the Leviathan

Disclaimer: This is NOT A REAL SECT.

It's an idea for a hypothetical church that uses dark motifs and nonduality to arrive at an unexpected conclusion. Leviathan's associated with Satan and evil is acknowledged, and used for that specific reason.

This hits on a lot of points, which may require clarification and explanation.

With religious hysteria growing, I figured why not?

It may parallel other philosophies and religions, but is ultimately unintended. It is based on my own philosophy, but uses different symbolic terms.

Maintaining compassion through the depths of hell.

The Clickbait name is warranted.

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Sect of the Leviathan

The name Leviathan comes from the Hebrew Livyatan, which comes from a root that means “to twist, turn, wind, or coil.

Good enough. Use that definition.

The Sect of The Leviathan is a different approach to typical whitelight religion. Where as traditional Christianity has fear and weariness associated with the coiled sea monster, conflating it with Satan, this should be read as the Church of Expected Adversity. That isn't as catchy though.

The sect of constant besiegement from the twists, turns, winding, and coiling of life. That as the default state of things.

Events are neither malevolent or benevolent in intent. They just happen and are interpreted significant by the mind one way or the other.

The Sect of The Leviathan acknowledges the world as indeterministic.

The Sect of The Leviathan acknowledges acting agents are without true free will.

The Sect of The Leviathan acknowledges you are at the mercy of indifferent chaos.

Sometimes the indifference is beneficial, but is far more noticed when it's detrimental.

Beneficial things will happen.
Detrimental things will happen. The course correction or reaffirmation things.

The Sect of The Leviathan acknowledges the lack deterministic design gives the aberration of synchronicity through statistic anomaly. In short, design is seen because there is no design.

In a purely deterministic world, the appearance of design could not stick out or be noticed. No anamoly would be recognized. No statistical variance could be had. No waveform in your two slit experiment. That we see design or likelihood of design, says the master of wave collapse is indeterministic, and by extension of that, neither for nor against us.

The Sect of The Leviathan acknowledges all this simultaneously with the following:

Through the indifference and adversity you will come across a method that works irrelevant to the course of events.

The twists, turns, and winding of your life will take you through benefit and detriment, hate and love, all the abstract emotions, and still arrive at a foundation of compassion and learning through adversity.

The darkness, the tempests, the fire is what builds honorable character.

It shows you what works.

The absolute indifference of the world is what makes a noble actor.

The refinement through the storm is the promised land.

The world is neither for or against you, it just is. There are no competing forces, it just is.

But decisions made along compassionate lines will certainly give you a better map of the terrain.

You don't know what that terrain will be, but having a defacto compass or rough map of which way to go, will make your journey easier.

Making respectful, magnanimous, and ethical decisions keep you on a far easier path through the unknown landscape. If neutral is 0 it pays to build up your "beneficial actions" count, because that is also statistical.

The Leviathan, you don't where that adverse F%$# is going to pop up. At anytime life could twist and turn, and without fairness or concern for you. The leviathan can be cruel, but not worth living in fear of.

It's gonna happen. S# is going to happen.

But the leviathan sure goes after the shady manipulative petty thief at a much higher clip than the person that volunteers at the food bank. With cruel outliers that have no reason.

Even if you can't totally avoid it.

Through the twists and turns of the leviathan, the indifferent and unpredictable way of this world, we still arrive at the overwhelming benefits of compassion, humility, and rationale. If you aren't a total derelict, you will have a much more beneficial range of options during moments of adversity. And will be better positioned for it.

We just got there through non-duality and using spite of the leviathan (and our own adversity) to transcend the suffering it causes.

Life is a bitch, don't be a %$@&.

* I mean, unless you're a total sociopath, then you can insulate yourself from the leviathan with total power. And have fun with the paranoia of all that. They are they outliers in this. They are not the suffering.

a reply to: Degradation33


I Hope it Comes and Cleans Up the Whole World.............

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Closer to this, but that's a great song too. I really don't expect anyone to like this.

a reply to: Degradation33

Yeah , Jesus Wants his Freakin' Whistle to .........*)

a reply to: Degradation33

I have problems with non-duality.
I really like Martin Buber's I and Thou way of viewing relationships.

a reply to: Degradation33

No Hobbes?

Leviathan or The Matter, Forme and Power of a Commonwealth Ecclesiasticall and Civil, commonly referred to as Leviathan, is a book written by Thomas Hobbes (1588–1679) and published in 1651 (revised Latin edition 1668).[1][5][6] Its name derives from the biblical Leviathan. The work concerns the structure of society and legitimate government, and is regarded as one of the earliest and most influential examples of social contract theory.[7] Written during the English Civil War (1642–1651), it argues for a social contract and rule by an absolute sovereign. Hobbes wrote that civil war and the brute situation of a state of nature ("the war of all against all") could be avoided only by a strong, undivided government.

wiki

I think it is the first time the 'whole' of human society was looked at as distinct living organism, emergent from the individual contributions.
This is I think much more modern and ... I just realised it totally works with what you wrote....

a reply to: pthena

It's not for everyone.

I think in Abrahamic religions only the Hassidic Jews are non-dual. And people get uncomfortable about The Sefirot too. Kabbalah rubs people the wrong way.

I got there from concepts like Advaita Vendenta and those of Therevada Or Tibetan buddhism. And then brought it back west a little bit. And then warped it to all hell.

Esoteric in that its not right for very many people.

a reply to: Degradation33

Advaita Vendenta

is pretty much exactly what repels me.

I sent you a pm a couple of days ago, apologizing for my faux pas.

I guess I'm excluded from the sect.
and the leviathan flicks me aside.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Degradation33

Advaita Vendenta

is pretty much exactly what repels me.

I sent you a pm a couple of days ago, apologizing for my faux pas.

I guess I'm excluded from the sect.
and the leviathan flicks me aside.

Actually, that's on me.

I don't check my messages... ever.

It took them 3 weeks to get me to realize I had to pick a contest theme once.

I apologize.

Everyone here has been respectful, even in firey disagreement. I like it here. What's the fun with agreeing with everyone?

Yourself not included, only 2 posters, in 9+ years here, have pissed me off or offended me. Rhetorically, I can get firey, but when offended I'll cut the thread and say it directly.

As cliche as it is, one of those was over belligerent antisemitism.

No worries. You never offended me.

And honestly, I'm also probably also excluded from my own Sect.

As far as Advaita, that was my introduction. But I went the Buddhist route because I don't believe in an unchanging higher self. I prefer impermanence and non-self.

So it's pretty much a hybrid of nihilist-leaning forms of nonduality. That view the appearance of divine form itself as the illusion. Not withstanding the emergent statistical balance and form within that gives the impression of as much.

It's actually really hard to explain and requires several points of clarification along the way.

Most religion = Top-Down
My philosophy = Bottom-Up

a reply to: Degradation33

But I went the Buddhist route because I don't bieve in an unchanging higher self. I prefer impermanence and non-self.

Moksha will happen when I die. In the meantime I see everything and everyone as individuals who will also reach moksha. Isn't that impermanent enough? Nihilistic even.

Funny thing and side note. This idea to put this into a hypothetical philosophy actually partly spawned from this clip:



Cartman's approach and choice to be a piece of s#, changed his luck, gave him less opportunity, eroded trust, respect, and assured the leviathan would turn him into that.

But as they said, there was only one outcome for people like him.

When you’ve drawn him out with a hook, let me know.

I keep thinking about the Tv show “ Supernatural”, And the leviathan . I can’t help it, I keep thinking about their mouths and the bibs …. (Maybe I’m still drunk from last nights escapades )

a reply to: Astyanax

No one in the sect thinks in those terms.

Imagine their hymnals and prayer books.
There are no hymns or prayers with lines like:

Oh ( ), our helper in times of need
use us now to fight our common foe.
Do constrain for us now,
and in the end destroy Leviathan.

Those lines appear nowhere. For there is no ( ), other than Leviathan.
That aspect of non-duality I do understand.

When I started reading this I was thinking in terms of some sort of Cthulu worship
By the end I was taken with how much like Tibetan Buddhism this sounds.

a reply to: Degradation33

It's not for everyone.

This is a thought experiment, therefore as a test module I will hereby make my confession before the board of admissions of this hypothetical sect and await their decision.

I confess that I have not done a deep dive into Hindu or Buddhist schools of thought. It is possible that I have developed a mental block, or actually an emotional - pit of the stomach revulsion.

It is possible that this block may be a reaction to how Hindu and/or Buddhist thought has been presented by modern-day proselytizers who rely upon youtube videos to give credence to their presentation.

Whatever the case may be, I have one question; this Wikipedia quote regarding Maya:

In the Advaita Vedanta school of Hindu philosophy, māyā, "appearance",[7] is "the powerful force that creates the cosmic illusion that the phenomenal world is real".[8] In this nondualist school, māyā at the individual level appears as the lack of knowledge (avidyā) of the real Self, Atman-Brahman, mistakingly identifying with the body-mind complex and its entanglements.[8]

In Buddhist philosophy, māyā is one of twenty subsidiary unwholesome mental factors, responsible for deceit or concealment about the nature of things.
en.wikipedia.org...(religion)

Is reality real or is it a delusion? I've lived my whole life in what would be Maya. That is my reality. Only death of ego will free me of Maya. That will happen when I die for real. No more ego, no more me.

As for the dharma(path I walk) it is like when I go to the grocery store. I thank the cashier for scanning my purchases, because she has done for me what I have trouble doing for myself, like self check out.

I am not that cashier and the cashier is not me. We are separate individuals. She is not an aspect of me, and neither am I an aspect of her.

It's really as simple as that. Fancy philosophy terms may be useful, but different schools of thought redefine those terms in ways that render them almost useless.

Here is a song:

At the beginning there are plants and birds and rocks and things.
After the journey there are plants and birds and rocks and things.

I imagine that just before I die, there will still be plants and birds and rocks and things, for real. And they won't disappear just because I die.

The question is do I have a place in this sect or not?

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Degradation33

Advaita Vendenta

I guess I'm excluded from the sect.
and the leviathan flicks me aside.

Maya includes the sects and leviathan.... yeah, includes even howard stern

a reply to: St Udio

Maya is either reality (phenomenal World), delusion of reality, or the force that causes the delusion of reality.

I take it as a matter of faith that if I was in the approximate location as Howard Stern that I would be able to see him and might even be able to shake his hand if I chose to.

The Leviathan not so much. Even if I may be effected by "the indifferent and unpredictable way of this world", I can't think of it as an entity that can be seen or touched.

a reply to: pthena

No one in the sect thinks in those terms.

Which means that no-one in the sect has a sense of humour.

a reply to: Astyanax

No. That's on me.
You can't blame the sect.
I haven't been accepted.
Not a spokesperson.
I'm giving them a bad rep.