Knew This Was Coming

originally posted by: datguy
a reply to: quintessentone

but the text of the law does not deny equal education, unless all of a sudden your saying that homosexuality is new lesson in third grade?

Not sure what you are reading...go to my second source.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: quintessentone

I'm still waiting for you to tell me what you think talent is from earlier today.

I answered that, it depends on the activity or sport.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: datguy
a reply to: quintessentone

no, no its not, from your own source

February 2023: Judge Winsor dismissed an amended complaint and entered judgment against the plaintiffs.

literally 30 seconds to read that entire article and you dont even know whats in it?

There is a later article where it's headed to an appeals court. You can't take away one person's rights to appease others' beliefs or bias'.

Oh, but if that one person and their beliefs and biases are LGBTQ+BBQ-friendly, then you can indeed take away anyone else's rights you want.

Do I get to be sure that I will no longer have a male body in my locker rooms and changing spaces? No. I have lost that right as a woman. I have lost the right to be sure that my rape crisis centers will be free of random males wandering around because, you know, some men are actually women in their own heads if not in body and if I can't read their minds and divine that ... well, I'm just a bigot or anti-LGBTQ+BBQ activist now rather than a deeply traumatized woman who was actually victimized by a man ...

And the list goes on of things I have lost the right to because some man felt bad about it because he wants to be a she.

Are you now going to tell me that my personal experiences are not valid because someone else feels like they have it worse as you did with someone else already in this thread providing yet another actual lived experience of the oppression that society carries daily?

a reply to: quintessentone

im reading the text of HB 1557, it does not deny equal education as i said, unless teachers are now teaching 3rd graders to be gay....
and you still havent answered whether or not you think the schools should have more rights over the kids than their parents

also the 2nd source you refer to states that it is arguable. I would argue that teaching 3rd graders to be gay or convince them they are unicorns is not part of any equal education

Actually you only get to take away someone else's right if you elect the right kind of politician with the right kind of agenda that matches yours.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: quintessentone

I'm still waiting for you to tell me what you think talent is from earlier today.

I answered that, it depends on the activity or sport.

No, it doesn't. It's actually pretty simple. You're making it complex to avoid the question.

originally posted by: datguy
a reply to: quintessentone

im reading the text of HB 1557, it does not deny equal education as i said, unless teachers are now teaching 3rd graders to be gay....
and you still havent answered whether or not you think the schools should have more rights over the kids than their parents

also the 2nd source you refer to states that it is arguable. I would argue that teaching 3rd graders to be gay or convince them they are unicorns is not part of any equal education

That's not the right question. The right question is should LGBTQ children be treated as second class citizens in society (including schools) because of others bias and/or hate?

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: quintessentone

I'm still waiting for you to tell me what you think talent is from earlier today.

I answered that, it depends on the activity or sport.

No, it doesn't. It's actually pretty simple. You're making it complex to avoid the question.

No it's not simple, because how do you determine talent vs skill sets learned from training. Natural talent is difficult to define. How about you give an example.

Laws based on animus...

D. The Right to Equal Treatment and Equal Protection for LGBTQ Youth

The right for students to be out in school undoubtedly bolsters the proposition that no-promo-homo laws are unconstitutional, and indeed, is likely enough to establish their unconstitutionality independent of other
considerations. There is also a strong argument to be made, however, that because these laws are based on animus, they are independently unconstitutional under the Fourteenth Amendment's guarantee of equal protection.1

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: frogs453

The grandparents should have been removed and banned.

These sports need to verify or accept at the beginning of the season and that’s it.
I don’t care what side you are on, humiliating these kids while everyone watches is as cruel as it gets.

Checking children’s private areas is not acceptable, period.

Ya, above any other opinion's I generally have on this subject, I agree on this..we are talking about 4th graders here. Posters here talking about genital being checked on grade school kids being perfectly fine need to pause and rethink it!

I'm not down with Lia Thomas type stuff though, once you get to a certain level..nope!

ETA I think the Lia Thomas type crap, is going to fuel this kind of bad behaviour from adults

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: putnam6

Adults can deal with these issues themselves but young children are witnessing anti-LGBTQ hate and intolerance and that is not right. If someone has an issue go through the proper channels away from the children, is all I'm saying. Well, of course along with all the hypocrisy that is evident within society.

Respectfully I don't hate anybody, I certainly have empathy for a troubled, confused kid with raging feelings who is bullied just because. It however doesn't mean this troubled, confused kid with raging feelings gets to beat the crap out of the female student body literally and figuratively.

I understand there is the hate aspect there, but that is different than competing in sports. FWIW I got daughters, just talking with them over the years the stereotypical LGBTQ hate has gone down quite a bit from when I was a kid in the 70s and 80s to when they were children and teens in the 90s and 2000s. I have family members who teach middle and high school, and both have plenty of LGBTQ students.

Hell, I was bullied some in school cause I was a little kid, nothing like what these children in this situation experience, but yea I still think about it 50 years later. I know we need to cut the hate, but respectfully athletics is how lots of teens handle all those hormones and emotions. We haven't even mentioned the actual trans-only numbers here either, they have to be minuscule it's probably a lot less than 3% because there is no way even a high school with 1000 students has 30 male-to-female transgenders who have the urge to compete against genetic females. It's probably closer to 4-5 tops.

As I said my focus is just the male-to-female trans in the elementary, middle, and high school sports area only. If a middle school male-to-female trans wants to be in the girls' chorus got no problem with that, they aren't dressing around each other or beating the crap out of girls because they have a genetic and hormonal advantage.

Then I see reports such as at the link and wonder, who is really getting the sharp end of the spear.

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu...

I didn't say suggest or infer, any minority has it easy or it's equal and peachy keen.

BTW kudos for standing firm on your beliefs and the discussion, it's all about listening to all sides with some respect and tolerance.

Respectfully the fact is a lot of people are just the way they are, they had no choice. I finally saw the video, FWIW that azzhole yelling ignorant crap, had no choice in who he was going to be either, his brain made his body say stupid things, it was probably a bit of genetics and early environment but it certainly is how his brain impulses shoot through his body involuntarily now.

So you have turned one dumb azzhole in Canada into a rage crusade against the whole public school system. As I said I get it discrimination happens, it happens a lot, and it comes in many faces and forms, still doesn't make the response of letting transitioning males compete with females the best way to rectify it for every school district in the US.

Unfortunately in a country as diverse and large as America, it will take decades/centuries for all the forms of discrimination to get to a tolerable level but it won't ever go away completely. Probably the best-case scenario is we will have to live with 3-5% of the population always having some form of bigotry.

a reply to: putnam6

You make very good points. I honestly don't know what to think at this point.

I recently read that because of the liabilities for having the "wrong" books in school's libraries that could include steep fines for school librarians, many school districts are now simply closing their campus libraries. This all behind the CRT/LGBTQ/ business.

Close the libraries? Why continue the sports programs.

My "guess" would be that if they shut down the school sponsored sports programs, parents would find sports resources outside the schools. There are soccer leagues. Baseball leagues and of course Basketball leagues outside the schools administration.

That would seem to certainly simplify things for the schools themselves.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: frogs453

So a pair of older people, who aren't even part of the school district make asses of themselves in front of a crowd of people lending credence to the meme that anyone who disagrees with the trans agenda are "right-wing crazies". How convenient.

I agree with you, the whole story is pretty suspect.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: quintessentone

Yeah, it's called the "don't say gay bill" in Florida that have you leftists crapping yourselves in your skinny jeans.

I'm not a leftist and I haven't read it because it's in Florida, where it should be.

I would be too ashamed to admit it if I were a leftist, too, but you're not fooling anyone. You're not a leftist, you just think like them and support their agenda.

LAWLS

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: datguy
a reply to: quintessentone


a claim of 7 people represented as plaintiffs, a gay couple and their kids, and 2 teachers from the same school district, likely the same school, so when you ask if i think its not the parents making the challenge, no i do not think 7 poeple in collusion represent the whole of the state, i guess we shall see but...its not looking good

again, from your own source

“Plaintiffs have shown a strident disagreement with the new law, and they have alleged facts to show its very existence causes them deep hurt and disappointment,” Winsor wrote. “But to invoke a federal court’s jurisdiction, they must allege more. Their failure to do so requires dismissal.”

and that still doesnt answer, do you think the school should have more rights over the children than the parents?

Do you think children's rights should be respected?

Please quote for me in the Constitution a child's rights in the United States.

This for a start:

The challenge to the 2022 law contends that it violated constitutional due-process, equal-protection and First Amendment rights, along with a federal law known as Title IX, which bars sex-based discrimination in education programs.

Plaintiffs in the revised version of the case, filed in October, are two students in Miami-Dade County and Manatee County schools, two lesbian couples with children in Miami-Dade County schools, a woman with children in Orange County schools and two teachers in Broward County and Pasco County schools. The defendants are the State Board of Education, the Florida Department of Education and the school boards in Broward, Manatee, Miami-Dade, Orange and Pasco counties.

The lawsuit alleged the plaintiffs have suffered “concrete harms” from the 2022 law.

“They have been denied equal educational opportunities they would like to receive, in the curriculum and beyond, and they have been subjected to a discriminatory educational environment that treats LGBTQ people and issues as something to be shunned and avoided, on pain of discipline and liability,” the lawsuit said. “This type of overtly discriminatory treatment has no place in a free democratic society and should not be permitted to stand.”

www.wlrn.org...

Basically denying LGBTQ children equal educational opportunities.

How do you deny a gay student equal educational opportunities? Are gay students moved into a different room away from other students and given a different education lesson or something?

a reply to: igloo

Another article. The man has been banned from all school events.

CBC News


He denies it. However the original Facebook post had comments from others there stating it did occur. He's also now receiving pushback and his business is as well
Of course he's going to back peddle.

I mean you can feel it's suspect. But considering people knock over pride displays, groups were outside of schools on video screaming at students who were wearing masks during the pandemic, is it really that hard to believe?

originally posted by: frogs453
a reply to: igloo

Another article. The man has been banned from all school events.

CBC News


He denies it. However the original Facebook post had comments from others there stating it did occur. He's also now receiving pushback and his business is as well
Of course he's going to back peddle.

I mean you can feel it's suspect. But considering people knock over pride displays, groups were outside of schools on video screaming at students who were wearing masks during the pandemic, is it really that hard to believe?

People indeed do crazy and disrespectful stuff! I can believe it for sure

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: quintessentone

I'm still waiting for you to tell me what you think talent is from earlier today.

I answered that, it depends on the activity or sport.

No, it doesn't. It's actually pretty simple. You're making it complex to avoid the question.

No it's not simple, because how do you determine talent vs skill sets learned from training. Natural talent is difficult to define. How about you give an example.

You seemed to think it was quite easy when you were labeling fair v. unfair.