Poland Missile Strike May Have Come From Ukraine Self-Defense: US Officials

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: WeDemBoyz



Ultimately, though, it was an accident and it will not trigger Articles 4 or 5.

How can you be sure it was an "accident"?

Ukraine has faked plenty of things already.

That is what I thought when the news first came out. It smacked as a false flag and I thought Zelenski would start shouting "look the Russians are targeting Poland now", "NATO must now join with us".

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

Things go wrong sometimes.
Friendly fire in war is an all too frequent occurrence.

Even if this had been errant Russian missiles it wouldn't have been reason in itself for any sort escalation.
A mistake, an error, something gone wrong.
If Russia had intended to attack Poland it would have been with substantially more than two old, relatively small missiles.

Of course its tragic for the people who died and their families but the harsh reality is that in the grand scheme of things its negligible.

Unfortunately the worst of the hyperbole I noticed was here on ATS.
Calls for an all out attack on Russia by some whilst of course the Putin acolytes and apologists et al screamed false flag etc.
Predictable nonsense.
From what I read and watched national leaders etc recommended caution before apportioning any blame.

Not big on MSM but I can imagine when the first reports came in there would have been the immediate damning of Russia.....followed by slow backtracking.

a reply to: Maxmars

Two sides to the coin.

I immediately stated this was a possibility.

The problem with this is that Zelensky must have already known that when he was accusing Russia and whining to NATO for more money and revenge.

Which makes him duplicitous at best and a lying, deceitful, warmonger, fraudster at worst IMO

Zelensky: “Terror is not limited to our national borders. Russian missiles hit Poland. … To fire missiles at NATO territory. This is a Russian missile attack on collective security! This is a very significant escalation. We must act.”
Link

originally posted by: YellowBlueSky22
a reply to: JAY1980

'Bloodthirsty Warmongers'?

I cant stand this guy!

There would be no war, no bombs, no missiles -- if Putin hadn't invaded their neighbor.

War is messy -- stuff happens.

It's still on Putin's head.

originally posted by: Annee
There would be no war, no bombs, no missiles -- if Putin hadn't invaded their neighbor.

War is messy -- stuff happens.

It's still on Putin's head.

Not if you're fair it isn't.

Actually, if we were following the NATO treaty, Poland should invoke Article 5 against Ukraine for trying to pull off a false flag, or at the very least, shooting missiles into NATO territory that they then blamed Russia for.

In my world, you don't get to lie and deceive and then try to claim the high ground. He knew when he asked us for assistance that it was HIS missiles that caused the fracas, yet he still pretended it was Russia and tried beating the drums of war and money....wrong...

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: Freeborn

The MSM were pumping it right up on every channel last night

Re: justthenews.com...

War Mongers, and others who hate their lives, are so disappointed.

GOOD!

Now, Let's send them over there to fight...Free one-way ticket, food, the whole 9 yards.

Spot on mate couldn't said it better. This is a MSM Democratic Party fuelled war full stop

a reply to: MykeNukem

Ukraine should definitely pay reparations to the families of the two dead Polish farmers.

Biden will reimburse them.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

If Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine then Russia wouldn't have been in control of Ukrainian lands.

Root Cause Analysis:
Russia's illegal invasion.

If the NATO and McCain and Nuland hadn't started encroaching on Moscow's near abroad and instigated a coup against a democratically elected government with a follow on of military advisors flooding into Ukraine post 2014 then non of this current debacle would have happened.

Root cause is USA formenting yet another Coloured Revolution and attempting through their NATO organisation to take under their control yet another piece of Europe.

Just to add as I've mentioned before, in no way am I anti American. My decendents were Yanks. I love the USA mostly. For the most part the wonderful experiment called the United States has been a force for good worldwide. We'd be in a much worse state without them. Yet when attempting to dismember the former USSR it has gone too far. Russian's have their sense of pride, they have their interests on their borders just like all great powers do. USA have gone too far here. They need to back off and give Russia a little breathing space instead of going head to head eyeballing them from inches away on colonised border states. No good was ever going to come of attempting to strip Russia of its influence firstly in Syria then Ukraine. Moscow was always going to fight back at some point. I'm amazed it's taken 31 years to get to this current fiasco!

This war is the USA's war and never had to happen

originally posted by: IAMTAT
a reply to: MykeNukem

Ukraine should definitely pay reparations to the families of the two dead Polish farmers.

Biden will reimburse them.

1% off the top of "The Big Guy"s cut should cover it.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Not attacking your position; but the truth is far deeper in history than the nation states we are referring to.

This region and its' inhabitants have suffered greatly at the hands of "others" who may or may not have had their best interests at heart. Past doctrines and policies of national behavior were often self-serving and rarely even considered the local population's will.

I have already seen that a large contingent of folks local to the region want a reproachment with their neighbors, they are not concerned with ideologies or systems of governance... they just want to live without being preyed upon by corruption. The problem is that both "sides" are corrupt here - when I say "sides" I am not referring to the "people" of any state - just the "players" of the game, and their cabals.

At some point this must cease. It cannot cease at the point of a gun... nothing ever does - anywhere - peace by force requires continued force. It won't be decided by politics - which only offers exploitation of the "status quo" while "talking" about it.

BEFORE we agonize over histrionics, this must end. Only then can we afford the luxury of arguing about who did what to whom. (Recognizing that it will be a litany of "why" excuses which won't offer any recompense to the dead, the dying, or the injured.) It won't reconcile the emotions of resentment, anger, and fear of it repeating. If WE don't start thinking up solutions, THE "LEADERS" WILL - and THEIR solutions just end up with THEM being "more" something (rich, prideful, popular?) ... and the dead remain dead for that "more."

((This is not directed at you, my fellow member... It's just something I had to say.))

originally posted by: Maxmars
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

The problem is that both "sides" are corrupt here - when I say "sides" I am not referring to the "people" of any state - just the "players" of the game, and their cabals.

BEFORE we agonize over histrionics, this must end.

How can the war end when the USA Democratic Party is fuelling it?

This war is a Democratic War from the start of Nuland and McCain all the way through to the present with this Biden geezer pumping billions into the war effort.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Ok, there is something to be said for the facts...

But I think there are (there must be) some democrats who aren't involved... Their lack of action would explicitly evoke thoughts of collusion, or impotence.

The hesitation I urge when discussing political parties is multifaceted:

- that I strongly suspect that their "party" roles maybe a kind of 'gaslighting' they subject themselves to... Republican, Democrat, even Independent are ineffective labels, given that between them all NOTHING of consequence EVER CHANGES for the better by their individual efforts.

- Nearly half the American population identifies as Democrat, even if I didn't know these people personally, I couldn't accept that they are ALL of like mind when it comes to this war, but I do know them - and that is just not the case. This is a POLITICAL game being waged to pretend that there is such a thing as "one side" as opposed to "the other side." I believe such a generalization works when discussing a person versus another person... but once entire populations are slathered together as if they were one - it doesn't fly.

- The political machinery in this country can no longer exist "within" a social sphere - it has devolved into a diffuse system spanning multiple social spheres - this is its primary weakness. The change from its roots was due to standard human baggage - not evil. But since we like to "get away with" things and we glorify the public servant's position with star power, exploitation became ensconced - even in our laws. Hidden self-service wins over overt promises of good faith, again and again.

- All the provocation in the world cannot eliminate responsibility for actions governments take. You see, if the leaders of the world, the global powerhouse influencers, the Superstar Celebrity tools, the deciders, etc. were to suddenly vanish overnight - everyone at war would pack up and go home. - in history it is almost never a "people" who "decide" to wage endless destructive war on each other - that's usually someone else's idea. And almost all those participating in the carnage directly - were expected to do it, under penalty of law.

Collusion isn't self-evident, and neither is impotence to act... so laying it out as an "it's the Democrat's" just isn't a productive line of inquiry... but if you refine that to "who" exactly... then it is. And I bet that the 'political party' of that person is as irrelevant as his shoe size. In fact, I am certain there are a significant number of folks that aren't democrats involved in this ridiculous farce of crisis (I call it a farce because the crisis is the death and destruction of the people and area; not the ideologies and 'bragging rights' of ... whomever.)

The media can not be trusted, they are working for
the bad guys and one of these days it is going to
cost a lot of people their very lives.

Oh...wait...

originally posted by: slatesteam
Even CNN with its “Russian-made missile” headline explains it wasn’t known to whom the missile belonged or where it was shot from.

This in itself I found rather telling FWIW.

The really sad part is that the idiots at CNN probably genuinely cannot understand why nobody listens to them anymore.

The telling part for me was when the president of Poland just blew off the incident. Words to the effect of, "We don't know who fired the missile, and it's probably an isolated incident." That told me that it wasn't a Russian missile, and he knew it.

It's possible, zelinsky is directly responsible for the missiles that killed Polish civilians on their own soil

We have seen quite a bit of fakery from zelensky since February. Anything for more money, more resources, more weapons.

originally posted by: carewemust
It's possible, zelinsky is directly responsible for the missiles that killed Polish civilians on their own soil

We have seen quite a bit of fakery from zelensky since February. Anything for more money, more resources, more weapons.

Especially since we now know that much of those billions of dollars got laundered back to the Democrats. I'm sure Z is being well compensated for his cooperation.

a reply to: Maxmars

I'm not saying all Democratic party people in the States supports US intervention and funding for the Ukraine war machine. What I am saying is the Biden administration is actively funding this war out of all proportions to others. There may well be outside influences who control the Biden administration, yet it's undeniable that the current regime is hell bent on fighting Russia using Ukranian's as proxies.

Ukranian defence budget $ 6 billion.

USA funding for the war so far this year $ 7 billion

Biden yesterday committed a further $ 36 billion to fuel the war.

The overwhelming funding for this war is directly from the United States and significantly from the Biden administration

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Putin will teach Biden a lesson. Unfortunately, it will cost a lot more lives.

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan

originally posted by: carewemust
It's possible, zelinsky is directly responsible for the missiles that killed Polish civilians on their own soil

We have seen quite a bit of fakery from zelensky since February. Anything for more money, more resources, more weapons.

Especially since we now know that much of those billions of dollars got laundered back to the Democrats. I'm sure Z is being well compensated for his cooperation.

I'm rooting for PUTIN!