Lolz about electric vehicles

a reply to: Grenade

ATS has its very own Sabine Schmitz by the sound of it.

Nope, I don't like to be compared with her. She's a legend and grew up on the Ring, I am not and didn't. But I knew her from eating in her restaurant and seeing her during track days and she sure overtook me several times and I didn't see it coming. Sometimes I made way for her because the Frikadelli Porsche is a legend itself and easy to recognize in the back mirror.

She died last year. There's a turn now named after her on the Nordschleife, the Sabine Schmitz Kurve. She was a hearty person and always in a good mood. I don't know anybody that didn't like her.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Yes DSG is almost unbeatable in shift times, if the computer prepares the next gear correct.

The Taycan has gearing. On the front it's 8:1 planetary covering the whole range and on the rear it's two gears. But the first gear also has a gear reduction functionality. 15rpm engine is 1 rpm wheel turn. That's how the Taycan has around 12 000 Nm (twelve thousand Newtonmeter ♥) torque on the wheel when it launches. It also has electronic adjustable rear differential lock.

Nostalgia and the good old raw emotions are lacking but this thing drives like on rails and once you figured out the behavior, especially with the rear differential settings, it's as much fun as a ICE with transmission and the different suspension. When you lift the "throttle", it does not slow down as you are used from ICE. It stops accelerating and then just sails with all the momentum stored.

This makes it possible to adapt a slightly different driving style than with ICE engines that have internal mass and the transmission clutched in all the time. Well except DSG, there it's similar but only in economy mode. Takes a bit time to get used not having the deceleration / motor brake but once you figured out how to handle it, this thing goes around corners like no other car I ever drove. Mainly because of the weight distribution behavior when the above happens.

And thats with 2.3 tons weight. I see this car as the next milestone for other manufacturers. Can't wait to see what the other manufacturers bring up. If you get the chance, do a test drive, you will not forget it, promised.

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

Mostly correct but capacitors deal with a lot of self discharge. Even with the newest tech you can not get the same energy density than with batteries.

Nuclear battery has a lot more energy density...

a reply to: AutomateThis1v2

Lol it does not take a dystopian world like this to make people call police because they hear loud bangs. The first two dyno Fridays I had police show up because of "gun shots" and soon after, I got a letter from city management that I risk my business license when I do dyno runs with the gates open.

Since then stuff disintegrates in the dyno room. The shockwaves literally rattles of everything that isn't fixed. Rust from cars parked there, dust from the ceiling and lamp shades had to be fixed and secured by the electrician so when (not if) they come loose, they hang on steel wires and not decapitate someone or hit a car. I wear earplugs under the big ear protection now.

Back to EVs... Yes I agree with the difference that horses were not banned. Here, horses enjoy special protection too on the roads. Mainly because of danger for the people riding them, from falling when the horse get's scared.

For cities electric public transportation will be the only possible way to get pollution out. To somewhere else, where the power plant is located, though. There it can disperse better and is less of a health risk. That's what the green people forget all the time too about EV. If the electricity is not produced by clean energy sources, you just moved the dirt to somewhere else.

When I drive to big cities and do not need to transport goods, I use so called Park&Ride. You either use public transportation or you schedule with someone upfront who goes into the city by car anyways. It can be annoying sometimes when the other one is needy for a talk or discussion. I hate small talk so it's like torture for me.

a reply to: TDDAgain

Lol, I wish I could have shown you another Camaro my dad built. He built it over 1000 horses and I don't remember what the torque was, but the first time he started it up It just about took down the garage and shook the car apart. He had to pull the motor and put it into another Camaro, and then reinforce everything, because the previous one had become twisted on the frame and body.

I'm looking at getting back into building cars next year. I just don't have the shop for it, so it'll probably be a storage unit build. Haven't decided on what I want to do yet though.

I am looking forward to being able to build electric vehicles. I've got some awesome ideas for an AWD EV that I'm nowhere close to being able to do because of prices and availability.

a reply to: AutomateThis1v2

Keep me informed about that project, are you having anything special on mind? Back to the roots or a new make / model?

I am hunching over plans and collecting parts about building a little electric go-kart. The most challenge I found isn't the engine or the mechanical stuff. That's a lot of shelf parts that can be abused and modified.

The challenge I found is finding a controller that can handle the AMP, do PWM and the feedback loop. If you just go full AWD/4x4 ... depends on how you define AWD is what I am getting at... the car / cart will not want to corner.

Lot's of sensors to mess with, like wheel speed sensors and you need them redundant. If you find a controller that can be free programmed then please message me, I am looking for one.

a reply to: TDDAgain

Sure thing! Let me get back to ya. I'm getting ready for work.

Nvmd; not worth it.

a reply to: TDDAgain

I wasn't aware of this, that's really sad news, she seemed like a lovely person.

To be fair, you might not like the comparison but it's the only female gearhead that springs to mind. Add to that the German connection and i can't help the pictures my mind paints.

Since it's you tho i won't make that comparison again out of respect.

Even i can resist trolling on occasion.

a reply to: TDDAgain

Floods destroy ICE cars too. A solar flare that takes out the electric grid for month you will have no pumps or oil refinery, port loading either. These two examples are made out of thin air.

ICE cars, especially the older ones, are a lot more resistant to floods and EMP damage. Pumping and refining doesn't necessarily need grid power, and we can at least use the remaining petrol/gas before we need to refine more, which gives time to rebuild the power grid. Trucks and ships can still use the remaining fuel to transport products and fuel. It's also possible to produce home-made versions of fuel which could help in emergencies. In the case of EV's, if the grid goes down then they will all be useless once their battery is drained. In the case of a large solar flare their electronics will be fried, and unlike an older car with less electronics it wont be easy to fix.

This car is a workable zero emission. BUT you can use water from the creek out back or the pond in your subdivision entrance and won't need Big Oil Companies or the ME oil and it can make a nice race car engine.
Link

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: TDDAgain

Can you explain why in 1986 I could get a Honda CRX HF that got 54mpg, but today, there is not a car (ICE powered) that gets close to that? That was 35 years ago, and we seem to have regressed.

But my concern with EV's is when the battery are done, what happens to them? Currently we can recycle about 50% of the contents. And even then it's not cost effective.

Because the costs of recycling EV batteries are so high, it’s not always economically reasonable for a scrapyard or recycling company to do so. In these cases, the batteries are sometimes stored at places like Spiers New Technologies in Oklahoma, according to Wired, in hopes that the financial benefits of recycling eventually catch up with the costs. Automakers often take this approach with batteries they’ve received under warranty. There are risks with doing this, as used batteries can present a fire risk, especially if there’s damage or a defect in the cells from the factory.

www.msn.com...

I'd love for us to find a workable zero emission vehicle, but as it stands, we are still using our electricity to charge these cars, and if you aren't on nuclear, you are on the dirty stuff, and a 1 for 1 swap =0

Plus there is no substitute for a roaring 454 with finely tuned dual quads and a deep loping cam poised to launch on the green.

Can the battery withstand getting salt water on it without exploding? That is one major step if they can survive salt water exposure.

originally posted by: TDDAgain
a reply to: Mandroid7

Porsche Taycan Turbo S with some custom mods. 2.8s for the "buy it from the dealer" version. And it does that 20-30 times until your neck is sore and you just don't want to anymore. The Tesla, IDK, how often can it do that? 1-2 times? And then the battery overheats.

This thing charges in 20min, does stuff above until the battery drains, does not overheat. Do 20-30 headlight starts in any ICE that power level in a row and the engine is toast.

And the next gen is even more ridiculous. Like I wrote, lot's of things changed since Tesla came to be.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Check out my link on a Hydrogen car that was used in a demonstration and no Manufacturer built them even though it worked.
Same as the one in the post above this post

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

ICE cars, especially the older ones, are a lot more resistant to floods

I disagree as a master in engine mechanics.

When the engine is flooded with dirty water, you have to disassemble. Once the shmoo get's into the head or oil pan and through the oil pump, little particles will destroy the cylinder honing surface, the crankshaft bearing as well as the camshaft bearings, everything that moves and included into the oil cycle. Hydro lock is an issue too.

Since almost all older blocks are made from cast iron, you get rust further destroying the engine as well as clogging the oil retriever rings, compression rings and piston rings around the piston. Newer cars often have aluminium cast blocks.

and EMP damage.

Yes, half decade old cars. People do not drive them daily, not the majority. The everyday driven car by a margin around 99% will not have a mechanical distributor so you are comparing half a decade old technology agains an EV in the case of an EMP. Sorry I can not take you serious on this.

In the case of a large solar flare their electronics will be fried, and unlike an older car with less electronics it wont be easy to fix.

A solar flare is not going to fry the electronics. There's not enough surface area on the wires at all to induce any kind of harmful potential differences. What you talk about is an EMP. You mix both up so not sure if I should take you serious on anything since you evidently do not know a lot about cars other than bar talk. You at least make that impression with your arguments above.

And even if it would or after an EMP, your cars ICE ECU would have the very same troubles. Yes, your Ford Model T with mechanic distributor would not be affected. How many people today drive mechanical ignition distributors lol.

In the case of EV's, if the grid goes down then they will all be useless once their battery is drained. In the case of a large solar flare their electronics will be fried, and unlike an older car with less electronics it wont be easy to fix.

So will be gasoline pumps and every other appliance. And if I use your EMP example, all those will be fried too.

Your arguments are weak and show a lack of knowledge in physics and engine technology, sorry to tell you.

a reply to: Justoneman

I don't know the full answer to this as I never heard about saltwater making batteries explode. But I think you mean because of salinity as in, making the water more conductive and thus shorting out the terminals?

If it's about that, the terminals are sealed. At least on mine. Keep in mind there are a couple more EV's than Tesla who are known to have trouble with this.

Then in winter, don't know if it's a thing at your place, the streets get salted for deicing. Manufacturers have to account for this too.

Basically and that's also adressed at ChaoticOrder, when any car get's flooded, you have to worry about a lot of other things. Almost all the time it's totaled. Yes one could disassemble a flood car and people do it, it depends on the type and durance of flooding.

If I could not answer your question to the origin you asked it, please detail your question, what do you think sea water will damage more than normal (dirty flood) water? Flood water is conductive too, as soon as you get minerals and particles in it, it will become conductive.

Since older car chassis are not tinned / protected by sending the whole chassis through a zinc bath and coat it. Older cars will rust away in no time once sea water get's into the chassis.

a reply to: Grenade

Don't take my request too serious, I just don't want to be compared with a legend because I am not one

I understand your train-of-thought though, I checked some flags and you were remembered about her. No offense taken. Thank you for respecting the request but again I did not feel insulted or offended. Just feel uncomfortable being compared to a legend.

a reply to: TDDAgain

I disagree as a master in engine mechanics.

When the engine is flooded with dirty water, you have to disassemble.

That is true, but I've seen plenty of ICE cars submerged in flood water and survive, but an EV will only survive a very small amount of time under water, if at all. I also doubt any EV's can easily drive through water the way many ICE vehicles can.

A solar flare is not going to fry the electronics. There's not enough surface area on the wires at all to induce any kind of harmful potential differences. What you talk about is an EMP. You mix both up so not sure if I should take you serious on anything since you evidently do not know a lot about cars other than bar talk. You at least make that impression with your arguments above.

Considering we've had at least one solar flare in the past which caused electronics to explode and wires to burst into flames, I'm pretty sure an EV would be screwed in the event of a large solar flare. At the very least all the particles coming from the sun would damage the processors. I used the term "EMP damage" because a large EMP is similar to a solar flare, it can cause electromagnetic induction which makes electronics burst into flames, but EMP's lack the high energy particles which come from a large solar flare and they are localized to a fairly small area.

And even if it would or after an EMP, your cars ICE ECU would have the very same troubles. Yes, your Ford Model T with mechanic distributor would not be affected. How many people today drive mechanical ignition distributors lol.

It is true that virtually all modern cars have a lot of electronics, but it's still nothing like an electric car, which relies on electronics for nearly everything. It would be much more expensive and much more time consuming to replace all those electronics, and virtually impossible to apply any sort of quick fix. None of this would be a problem if our governments allowed ICE cars to remain legal, my argument is that making all cars electric will have undeniable disadvantages.

But EV's also have many obvious advantages. I've always been a massive fan of Tesla and think the AC electric motor is one of his most brilliant inventions. I fully understand what the point of this thread is despite what you may think. However I also feel it needs some counterbalance because I'm sick and tired of bureaucrats telling us the future must be 100% electric, telling us what we can and can't drive, telling us all the supposed advantages of EV's but none of the clear disadvantages.

I think it's a moot point trying to compare or judge theoretic damage from solar flares or EMP when both type of cars are relying on electronics. But I agree with you and others about the idiotic pushing and shackling to EV when the technology isn't yet there, not available to the masses, the power grids not ready and energy source mayhem like we currently have.



Now.. I am not saying that EV are better in water than ICE but when the car is engineered correct, there should not be a problem driving through water. In any type, EV or ICE, you should not be driving through water anyways. If the door seals or climatic control isn't correct, you get water into the cabin.

Check out this Taycan, again, just using latest buyable technology as example. I drove through 30cm (1 foot) high water several times myself in my own and I have it on the hydraulic lift now and then. I do that with all my cars. Not because it makes trouble but because I work on them. From there I can tell you the underside is sealed as it should be for every EV with battery tech in the floor.

Here's someone that actually drove his EV (a Taycan, current stage of technology) through hip high water for lolz and that's what happened... I would not recommend it with an ICE or EV but your claims that an EV will be in trouble is just not true.



Nothing. A tree branch got into a fan and there was dirt. Try this with an ICE and it sucks water through the intake, water ingress through the exhaust and water into the oil pan, your ICE engine risks damage. Electro motors, if there is no particles inside and the terminals sealed (they are), will be fine. You can see it passing an ICE powered truck that, like we say in the biz "drowned".

About Teslas... I drove several EVs before I closed on the Taycan deal... VW ID3, the VW ID4 when it was not yet available, the Tesla and the Taycan. I didn't like the Tesla by optics and the quality is not on par with a lot of standard German cars (panel gap as wide as a canyon) but acknowledge it's a nice car. I don't understand the hate some bring forward towards Tesla or EV in general though.

I understand people do not want to be told what to drive and do. I get it. Or dislike Musk. But that's not a reason to throw logic over board and just childishly bash on EV everytime. Like Schuyler posted, Tesla fire statistics beat ICE fire statistics. A lot of the claims are untrue when it's about EV.

And that's what the thread is about, CriticalStinker worded it the best: A technology has been taken over by politics and ideology. From both sides: The push towards from politics and the rejection from the people. A lot of the arguments made are not in alignment with reality, from both sides.

I was not fond towards EV either, being a gearhead / fuel head loving ICE and getting goosebumps and emotions from hearing and feeling them. Then I gave myself a push to try some EV and since two years I drive one daily. No problems, I never feel vulnerable running out of power. The only difference is that I have to plan my day a bit. But since EV can charge on their own without attending the charging, a lot of the claimed time loss is actually zero.

Performance wise, EV stomps ICE into the ground. I am used to high powered ICE cars because of hobby and job. 1000HP+ drag and hill climb cars and circuit (600-850HP on average) and the EV blows them all out of the water in the speed regions. My time on Nürburgring is 7:49 and that was not a track day but tourists on the track.

EV is not like 10-12 years ago. I am in the business and have a lot of contacts to different manufacturers. I get to drive cars before they hit the road and are listed to be available for selling. The only downside with EV currently is battery tech and it could be solved but civilians won't get the technology. Forget the grid with this technology, EV would not hook to the grid if we would be allowed to have it. We would be far more sovereign in range than with ICE if we would be allowed the technology. But we are not. Same is true for hydrogen. There is tech, but the military has dips on in.

You know, so the bad guys can't make hydrogen bombs or have nuclear batteries. Some claim EV is more controllable by electronics remotly. To that claim I can only laugh and smirk because since 2018 most cars do have that functionality. And remote shutdown is coming for the few ICE iterations we will have until the manufacturers fade them out.

I get that you like your EV, and that's fine. They're neat. But you're also enjoying the end result. Some valid issues:

1) EV isn't a green energy source, only a green storage device (and not so green at that). This makes comparison difficult. The only green energy source that has proven an effective alternative to fossil fuels is nuclear. But you're focusing on cars (ICE), so I'll stick with that.

2) End result EV is awesome, but the economic cost is substantial. More concerning is the ecological impact from the initial creation of the EV. I won't bore you with amounts (unless you want them), but suffice to say 145 to 970 tons of raw materials moved just to make one EV battery (1/2 ton battery). That's not even counting the pollution created.

3) Copper, a main component of EV is depleting at an advanced rate. It's hard to think of metal as a non-renewable source, but it is, unfortunately.

There HAS to be a better way, and IMHO there is. We have the tech right now for solid state hydrogen vehicles.

Again, I like EV vehicles, but I don't want people to think they're "doing the right thing" by buying them. They're far worse for our ecology. In short, EV is a cash cow. But, so are NFT's, and some people love them.

My 2 cents.

During that raging storm there in Florida all the flooded electric cars was catching fire. Lithium and water combusts violently. So you're basically sitting on top of 500lb lithium bomb. The fire department is trying to put out a lithium battery fire with water. Doesn't work to well.