So this will be unleashed upon us whether manmade or natural. Again, the forces of nature are with Bush and his terrors.

I dont know what to make of this. I still think this is waaaaaaay too convenient for this government, seeing that they want nothing better than to take all our freedoms away.

Well how can you keep the public in the dark when all this problems are happening all over the world.

People in the US needs to ask our government what is doing to keep us safe.

Is our government doing enough testing of our meat supplies, or if just covering up so the meat industry doesn't suffer any loses.

Bump-

This is a very newsworth story. I wonder why nobody seems to care..

Thats what i find fascinating about ATS.

How exactly you turn this into a civil rights issue, I'll never know. It's one of the most ridiculous things I've heard on here.

For example - "Super Bugs" are highly contagious and lethal bacteria. They can't be treated with antibiotics - in fact, antibiotics now cause previously benign bacterial strains to mutate into lethal forms - most "Super Bugs" mutate into highly contagious and lethal forms on exposure to antibiotics inside the host's body.

They are caused by people who don't take medication properly, and allow the bacteria to survive and evolve. Don't make it into some conspiracy issue.

These and other diseases are scary - but they could be controlled with environmental clean-up measures.

How exactly is cleaning up the environment going to stop the Bird Flu?

Originally posted by soficrow
...Looks to me like the quarantine laws could be abused even worse than the Patriot Act. Any thoughts on that one?
[edit on 2-4-2005 by soficrow]

That was the first thing that went through my mind too. I am not really sure but I have heard that your orginization FEMA is apparently a government within a government right? This is generally considered a bad idea. SS anyone?

When you find a dead bird I reccomend not touching it, and to contact your local health department. They will tell you what to do with the bird, and it will help track west nile virus.

West Nile doesn't impress me. It does seem to be wreaking havoc in my neighborhood though. At one point earlier in the winter I saw a flock of crows larger than any I had ever seen. I usually see crows in groups of three, sometimes groups of seven, but one day a month or two ago I saw easily a hundred in one tree.

Now they're all gone, except for one, who I've seen around the neighborhood, he likes to perch outside my window in the mornings.

Quarantine is dangerous, because it tends to increase fatalities in the quarantined population, while often doing little to stop the spread to the uninfected.

If you don't target all the vectors, you're not destroying the disease, simply.

In fact, having a lot of sick people running around might do something to bolster immune response in those who come into contact with them on a regular basis, I'm not sure.

I think this is a dangerous turning point, because along with other rules in effect, it allows the government to lock up a sizable percentage of the population if they decide to do so, even senators and statesmen, then pass judgement on the people with a limited congress, and drop all sorts of heinous laws on our heads. (As though they don't already. )

I don't know what will come, but seeing all the pieces falling into place does nothing to reassure me of a good-for-everyone outcome.

Sofi, good one, I didn't notice it until just now.

This was a long time in the coming, and I'm not surprised at all by the revelations presented. We have always been expendable, but as citizens, we are now truly and totally expendable in a legal and binding sense. The future looks more and more bleak, and that, in a way, gives me hope of a renewal. It always tends to be darkest before first light.

Life is paradoxical, so all things that are good are bad, and all things that are bad are good. This might end up working in favor of the people in this country, if enough are made aware of it, and muster the energy to get upset over it.

Originally posted by rg73

Clostridium is an anaerobe. Therefore it does not flourish in oxygen does it? Therefore it isn't exactly a problem under atmospheric conditions. Clostridium infects deep wounds primarily and other areas of low to no-oxygen. It will never cause any pandemic diseases.

The links I provided above lead to a comprehensive series of articles from the CBC that profile "super bugs." ...Well worth reading and informative.

In fact, C. difficile IS epidemic in certain locations, specifically hospitals. It's worth monitoring - mutations happen - for example, last year, Edmonton reported a new strain of E. coli that spread via aerosol. Unheard of, right?

Nevermind that Clostridium is treatable with appropriate antibiotic regimes and that you can kill the spores with appropriate measures as well.

The point is that resistant mutations are evolving faster than effective antibiotics can be developed - at present only one antibiotic seems to work, and we can NOT count on appropropriate measures being taken to kill the spores. ...As the CBC reports, budget cutbacks hit nurses and support staff first and thus, the first line of effective hygiene defense. US hospitals are likely much worse - when the bottom line is the first priority, sacrifices are made and the patients are first to pay.

The link above says ESBL bacteria are only a problme for immuno-comprimised individuals. This is a small fraction of the problem--again no potential for pandemic.

Again, please read the material. Re: ESBL - it's only fatal in immune compromised individuals - but also very likely may cause long term low grade chronic infections in otherwise healthy people. And chronic counts.

Vancomycin resistance is a problem, especially with diseases like TB, but even though there are vanc-resistance Mycobacterium in high density places like NYC, we haven't seen epidemics. Again, not really a big concern.

Again I disagree - the epidemics have already started.

... every last one of these bacteria can be killed with the right bacteria phage. They've been using phage successfully in Russia for almost 100 hundred years to treat a variety of bacterial infections.

Absolutely. This is where the research and production needs to be. FYI - A Russian scientist was in the USA about 2 years ago looking for investors to back bacteriophage production - after a brief public flurry, the press was buried and as far as I know, the initiative was killed. Apparently, the profit potential is not high enough.

And phage resistance usually comes at a greater cost than antibiotic resistance, so phage resistant bacteria are much less pathogenic than their antibiotic resistant counterparts.

FYI - one of the real problems is that current decontamination and sterilization techniques leave the super bugs alive to evolve and mutate - but kill the phages and thus prevent the phages from mutating and evolving along with the super bugs. Time for a pardigm shift.

Anyway, none of the bacteria you've mentioned has much of a potential to cause epidemics and they're all treatable.

Please read the articles - the problem is real and no, they are NOT all treatable. As Dr. Mark Miller said, "Something happened 18 to 24 months ago, ..." and now, super bugs are mutating into more virulent forms on exposure to antibiotics.

Bird flu is a little bit of a worry, but, WHO and CDC aren't really in a panic, just heightened concern.

?!? ...Don't know where you get your information - but it reads like damage control.

Also recent network epidmieological models have shown that even smallpox can be contained with the right quarantine measures.

Bird flu crosses species barriers, doesn't die and also is transmitted via surfaces, soil and water. Quarantining human victims does squat.

...all the new "super bugs" are just that - and possess previously unthinkable "super powers." There is a problem, Houston. Deal with it. Don't bury it.

There are no real global killers out there in the microbiology world.

See above, especially the part about damage control. ...Your information is completely inaccurate and out of date.

Nasty viruses and bacteria to be sure, but nothing that is going to destroy civilization or even put a dent in it.

I agree that a certain elite segment of the population believes they are protected and immune - and is willing to sacrifice millions of people to ensure that they can maintain their standards of luxurious living. So by those terms, no, civilization won't be destroyed. Just ordinary people.

.

[edit on 2-4-2005 by soficrow]

I have been following the bird flu for awhile now, thanks to sofis warning...

I still see it as a "yet to be determined".....
We only know that it can become a very fatal disease...
We also know that some get it and have no effects...
So, we can not say with any certainty, as to how widespread or how many people have it. We can only say that its more widespread than we can thought originally.

And the thing i find incredible is that for a "threat" that we are told is worthy of polio type precautions (according to our government), isn't worthy of a few Public service announcments as to the easy methods of avoiding the majority of exposure.

How many people washed their cars this weekend?
did you realize that you just exposed yourself to a potential deadly disease?
WHY ISN"T OUR VERY CONCERNED GOVERNMENT TELLING US SIMPLE TIPS LIKE AVOIDING BIRD CRAP FOR GODS SAKES? (I realize it takes more to prevent an outbreak, but they aren't doing ANY?)

When this potential epidemic happens, it will happen fast, and having knowledge like:
1.wash all fruits and vegatables, and remove outer skin...
2.avoid contact with bird crap and feathers...
3.perhaps drop the formality of hand shakes for a polite salute or nod/curtsy...
4. Put a PSA out once in awhile so that people are alert to the threat.

these steps could go ALOT farther than a quarantine, but yet, a quaratine order is ALL that has been done in regards to protecting the population...

it is for this reason alone, that i doubt that our administration is concerned about our health, as much as getting their way with our freedoms.
That theory is far more consistant with this administrations actions...

remember folks... NOT ONE PSA has been put out to inform the public, but a rash and extreme quarantine order has been issued...
Our government either doesn't care about our health, or they are too ignorant to use far more effective means to prevent an outbreak...(like educating the public).

I am not against a quarantine if it is needed...BUT, i would like to know that our leaders have done everything else they can do before hand...

Yes Sofi I was reading on the news that the Staphylococcus once only found in hospitals is now showing up on places around cities like you say, this is very disturbing because its resistance to antibiotics.

Can anybody point this Canuck to where I can read the text of the executive order?

Or are these kept as "State Secrets" until de-classified or released through FOIA?

I want to see what's in that order.

It likely connects to other executive orders on the books, like those described on this site:

Under F.E.M.A., the Executive Orders which are already written and is the current law of the land, calls for the COMPLETE suspension of the United States Constitution, all rights and liberties, as they are currently known.

The following executive orders, which are in the Federal Register located in Washington DC for anyone to request copies of, call for the suspension of all civil rights and liberties and for extraordinary measures to be taken in, as most of the orders state, "any national security emergency situation that might confront the government."

When F.E.M.A. is implemented, the following executive orders will be immediately enforced:

EDIT:
SORRY LINK BROKEN. I'll see if I can find a mirror somewhere.

.

[edit on 5/27/2005 by Gools]

Okay, cheers for your link, Gools
These people are best known for setting up an encampment in NYC on September 10th 2001 ready to go the next day
These really are unruly Hooligans In Government (Reich's HIGs)

[edit on 27-5-2005 by dh]