Poland Ukraine

Earlier on Sunday, a Ukrainian ruling party lawmaker said that Zelenskiy had announced the imminent tabling of a parliamentary bill to give Polish citizens "special legal status" in Ukraine.

www.reuters.com...

Special status

Nikiforov said: “We must note Poland’s law for people temporarily repatriated from Ukraine, which in effect gives Ukrainian citizens the same status as Polish citizens, with the exception of voting rights.”

“And so a similar law will be passed in Ukraine at the president’s initiative,” the official added.

Nikiforov did not give further details, apart from confirming that Ukraine’s foreign ministry would draw up the bill and submit it to parliament.

www.polskieradio.pl...

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy commented on the announced bill on the special legal status of Polish citizens in Ukraine.

"It was an unprecedented signal of respect and support from the Polish Sejm, from, first of all, the Polish people regarding the adoption of a relevant law at a time when Ukrainians really needed it," he said at a joint press conference with Polish President Andrzej Duda. answering questions regarding the details of this bill.

www.unian.net... l


What it doesn't mention is that Poles will be able to


1) hold elective positions
2) be appointed to state authorities, to senior positions of defense enterprises
3) which would give access to secret data
4) be judges
5) It may even grant Polish police the right to monitor law and order in Ukraine

No matter how the war goes I think Ukraine's days as an independent nation are numbered.

Is there even a term for this? How about "soft invasion?"

a reply to: Grimpachi

I think the term is neighbors taking care of neighbors.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Well except the right to vote part. I don't think they can do the list of things you have labeled 1 thru 5, without the right to vote.

a reply to: Grimpachi



It doesn't mention it, because it isn't true, russia just made it up again.



The agreement actually excludes privileges like that, and even voting.




A mutual agreement between Poland and Ukraine to ensure that Ukrainian war refugees in Poland have the same rights and privileges as Polish citizens (with certain obvious exceptions for things like voting) and Ukraine doing the same for Polish Citizens inside Ukraine.

A true act of mutual friendship, trust and human decency between two neighbors.

Has russia ever experienced anything like that?

Maybe it's just a foreign concept to russians?

originally posted by: vance
a reply to: Grimpachi

Well except the right to vote part. I don't think they can do the list of things you have labeled 1 thru 5, without the right to vote.

Probably have to be a citizen as well.

originally posted by: vance
a reply to: Grimpachi

Well except the right to vote part. I don't think they can do the list of things you have labeled 1 thru 5, without the right to vote.

They had a law against dual citizenship at one point. They still may.

Ihor Kolomoyskyi got around it by having triple citizenship and he was elected Mayor.

Ukraine is about to default, Volodymyr is a drug addict and even here in the US we have stupid things like that. In NY you don't have to be a citizen to vote in local elections.

The only thing that is specifically stated in any article they can not do is vote. It says nothing about holding government office or military positions.

a reply to: Grimpachi


Exactly what is Ukraine 'about to default' on?

Other than any payments to russia of course.



Perhaps you haven't heard?

The U.S. has completely funded the Ukrainian government for the next 6 months and many other countries are both donating what cash and equipment they can, and also cancelling Ukraine's existing debt.




What else is on russian teevee today?

(I saw the exact same false claim you just made on russian teevee today)

Cool. Still won't get them into NATO at this point. Ukraine is bear food and seem determined to tie themselves, even if by their own sovereignty, to anything which may abate that. Their days of having much more to offer other than being a battleground for western puppet military games in the interest of a mil industrial complex clearance rack sale are over. The western powers only care about making a quagmire for Russia, which is their only move moving forward. It is in our interest for Ukraine to fall as slowly as possible.

Again, not happy about it. It is the name of the game unless or until Russia gets completely buried economically and politically, at which point they will win the war overnight because they have nothing else to lose by exercising their immense capacity for brutality yet in reserve. Burying Russia is how this ends and the bear will take the ruins of Ukraine in turn.

Meanwhile communist China grains economic leverage, power, and gumption by the day. These events are all the result of a USA with a dim-witted and weak leader, and a NATO which fails to learn from initiatives of hostile nations of the past.

a reply to: AstroDog

I was in agreement with much of your post until you got to the part about NATO and history and what they learned... Every member of NATO knows damn well not to appease a little dictator, when he says "I'm just going to take this little piece right here". Putin f***** up, I'm just waiting to see how he gets himself out of it.

youtu.be...

a reply to: Grimpachi

Volodymyr is a drug addict and even here in the US we have stupid things like that. In NY you don't have to be a citizen to vote in local elections.

You certainly have issue with "drug addicts" and addiction in your own state, but where is your proof Volodymyr Zelenskyy is a drug addict?

Some evidence to support such a claim might be nice of the actual tangible sorts.

The current Ukraine is too large, it's made up of portions of stolen land from other countries. The eastern portions are almost entirely ethnic Russian and should be handed back over to Russia, and the northwestern portion is almost entirely ethnic Polish and should be handed back over to Poland. The southwestern portion should be given back to Romania. There's even a good argument for Kiev going back to Russian control, it's been part of Russia for almost the entirety of it's existence, is one of the three great historic cities of Russia along with St. Petersburg and Moscow, and is the ancestral homeland of the Rus.

Ukraine should be about half its current size, this has been an area ripe for war for a long time.

a reply to: Subsonic

Well if you say so.

Problem solved, everyone can go home now coz Subsonic to the rescue.

Accept not in the slightest really.

Only peeps that should be going anywhere is Russia back to her own postcode before Ukraine bloody her nose any further imho.

a reply to: Subsonic

The current Ukraine is too large,....

So your solution would be to break it up and give parts of it to other countries one of which, Russia, is far larger than Ukraine?

.... it's made up of portions of stolen land from other countries.

Any supportive evidence?
How did Ukraine 'steal' this land and when?

The eastern portions are almost entirely ethnic Russian and should be handed back over to Russia,.....

Err, no they aren't.
58% of people in both Luhansk and Donetsk Oblasts are Ukrainian, 38% are Russian.
People of Russian ethnicity are concentrated in the larger cities and in some of these they are in the majority, but not by much.

.... and the northwestern portion is almost entirely ethnic Polish and should be handed back over to Poland.

Is it?
en.wikipedia.org...#/media/File:UaFirstNationality2001-English.png
There are approximately 140,000 Poles living in Ukraine, about 0.3% of the overall population.
I very much doubt that equates to 'almost entirely ethnic Polish' of anywhere.

The southwestern portion should be given back to Romania.

Why?

There's even a good argument for Kiev going back to Russian control, it's been part of Russia for almost the entirety of it's existence,.....

And what is that 'good argument'?
If anything its been part of Lithuania in one form or another for longer than it has been under Russian control.

Kiev predates the existence of Russia by a few hundred years.

Ukraine should be about half its current size,.....

According to who?

... this has been an area ripe for war for a long time.

Has it?
So that justifies Putin invading, killing thousands, the displacement of millions, destroying huge swathes of land and causing untold amounts of human suffering?

a reply to: Grimpachi

I'm convinced someone hacked this account. This isn't the same member I remember.

Someone who rarely used to make threads and had a different ideology all of a sudden starts shilling Russian propaganda almost every day? Sus

a reply to: CriticalStinker

I have wondered about this with a few other posters, too.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Subsonic

The current Ukraine is too large,....

So your solution would be to break it up and give parts of it to other countries one of which, Russia, is far larger than Ukraine?

.... it's made up of portions of stolen land from other countries.

Any supportive evidence?
How did Ukraine 'steal' this land and when?

The eastern portions are almost entirely ethnic Russian and should be handed back over to Russia,.....

Err, no they aren't.
58% of people in both Luhansk and Donetsk Oblasts are Ukrainian, 38% are Russian.
People of Russian ethnicity are concentrated in the larger cities and in some of these they are in the majority, but not by much.

.... and the northwestern portion is almost entirely ethnic Polish and should be handed back over to Poland.

Is it?
en.wikipedia.org...#/media/File:UaFirstNationality2001-English.png
There are approximately 140,000 Poles living in Ukraine, about 0.3% of the overall population.
I very much doubt that equates to 'almost entirely ethnic Polish' of anywhere.

The southwestern portion should be given back to Romania.

Why?

There's even a good argument for Kiev going back to Russian control, it's been part of Russia for almost the entirety of it's existence,.....

And what is that 'good argument'?
If anything its been part of Lithuania in one form or another for longer than it has been under Russian control.

Kiev predates the existence of Russia by a few hundred years.

Ukraine should be about half its current size,.....

According to who?

... this has been an area ripe for war for a long time.

Has it?
So that justifies Putin invading, killing thousands, the displacement of millions, destroying huge swathes of land and causing untold amounts of human suffering?

Ukraine was never a separate country until the breakup of the USSR, except for a few short years after WWI. Just because it's been a country in its current form for 30 years doesn't mean it should stay that way. I know that part of the world, it's where my ancestry is traced back to. My maternal grandmother, who is Polish, was born in Lvov, which was part of Poland since the 1300s. It's always been a Polish city, never part of Ukraine until the last 30 years. I think part of the final plan with Ukraine is to return Lvov and northwestern Ukraine back to Poland.

As for eastern Ukraine, they even voted to join Russia several years ago by huge majorities but Ukraine wouldn't let them leave. All I'm advocating for is to allow folks to self-segregate and associate themselves with whatever country they please. You know, advocating for human freedom rather than forcing people to act as a puppet state for NATO and the western empires.

a reply to: Subsonic

The current Ukraine is too large, it's made up of portions of stolen land from other countries.

Your own country is created on stolen land.

So don't you think you should give it back ?

a reply to: alldaylong

And it's too large.....