Original doesn't equal christianity

Originally posted by TheSwordMaster

i live in finland, no turks ever came here, that is for sure. so why did the christians come here from sweden and force the religion on the original finnish people?
I don't know was your country forced or just preached but I live in Croatia, there are lot of christians here but we were never forced on christianity, it was teached and those who wanted to accept it did.
With just 2 preachers, Ciril and Metod, slavic nations were converted to christianity. While Islam is mostly violently brought in by thousands of conquerors.

Turks have passed through my country several times, and so the stories are told through generations, Turks were extremely violent, they were conquerors after all. Search google on it for link.

In Bosnia near Croatia there are mostly muslims, and surely non of those were converted peacefuly but with sword.
It is even suspected that Al-Qaeda has some center there.
And when pope came to Bosnia month ago they called local newspapers and threatened they will kill him.

[Edited on 16-7-2003 by Megaquad]

While Islam is mostly violently brought in by thousands of conquerors.


err. and christianity wasnt brought with a sword? you are totally leaving out the christian crusades and killings of mayans and incas.
everything im saying in this thread is learned from school. school books and teachers, you cant say that they are wrong.
seems that you are totally leaving parts away to suit your needs.

im off now. if you want to continue this please U2U.

You my friend have it to. You are looking for the answers that you feel can untie the mystries of the universe (hoping that in doing so you can prove God aint there). But, if you were to live for 2k years you will still be no closer than you are now to knowing the truth. But what you might find there in you quest, and be careful not to overlook it (which sadly so many people like yourself do) will be God in action. For now antichrist you are a 'positivist'. And if there is one thing I can gaurantee you, you will never know it all. Thus what worth is your life without sprituality. You are bound for nothingness!

I have no spiritual yearning, if I had, I wouldn't have left Christianity, I was raised a christian in a very happy childwood, I was also raised an honest man, and I can be honest to myself when answering negatively to the questions "do I have a spiritual yearning?" "do I believe there is a God out there?"

My scientific and philosophical studies are not in porsuit of proof of the unexistence of God, I am not an atheist, I am an agnosticist, I therefore do not exepect my opinion on the existece or unexistence of a "creator" (not on the religious-crap sense) to be valid, therefore I would never try to prove the unexistence of God.

In 2k years we discovered:
The earth is not flat.
The earth revolves around the sun instead of the oposite.
The earth lies on a godforsaken corner of a godforsaken galaxy on a probably godforsaken universe.
There is amazing power and energy contained in the smallest of things.
There is a limit to what speed you can travel.

Yet you say we are in no way closer to the truth, can anything be more ridiculous? Basically your whole nation to "discover the truth" is to discover a god, and wow, amazingly probably the Christian God, and until we discover him we won't be even one step closer to the truth. Disgusting, ridiculous.

"Everything is God in action", have you ever thought for a single moment that maybe it ISN'T God in action, that maybe there isn't a God beyond the whole universe and that in the case such inexistence is true nothing changes? Light would still travel at the same speed, the earth would still revolve around the sun and hopely someone will still strive to destroy this infectious disease we call christianism.


We live in a perfectly logical universe, cause and efect is patent on all action, there is no need for a God to provide cause, cause is there on it's own.

I AM bound for nothingness, you all are, human life is nothingness, no purpose, no meaning, not an essencial one, if you'd read good books instead of blabering biblical and religious crap insistantly you'd already know that. There's one of us wasting is life, and it certainly ain't me.

Originally posted by Antichrist

I AM bound for nothingness, you all are, human life is nothingness, no purpose, no meaning, not an essencial one, if you'd read good books instead of blabering biblical and religious crap insistantly you'd already know that. There's one of us wasting is life, and it certainly ain't me.

I AM bound for supreme exsistence, and i do favor good books wich gives a feeling of spiritual light ,- over books wich gives a bunch of foggy feelings/emotions/illusions -...anytime. Those i have already got plenty of in my own life.

and by the way: NONE of us are wasting our lives.

- It is simply impossible to waste ones life from a filosofical point of view.

Did you know that Mohammed the Arab prophet discerned between the Christians and the followers of Jesus? Interresting since Islam was born in a time when the church departed from the original teachings layed down by Jesus of Nazareth.

Well it goes something like this: Christianity/the church is a secular state organisation with all the caracteristics of a nation (world wide nation that is), a continuance of the Roman Empire and the other beasts mentioned by Daniel the prophet, Ezra the Scribe and John the Theologican. It has raised it's tent above the kings and the emperors claiming to be a representative of God. The other group is the followers of Jesus, they sell everything they own, leave their families and everything that is keeping them in bounds and live out the teachings of Jesus according to the Law Moses mediated. They are mostly Jews, but also some who have come from the nations to celebrate God the way God wants it.

The Christians/Church keep idols, pray to angels and something they call saints a kind of psevdo-gods who followed the ways of the Church and is thereby honoured in order to justify the ways of the Church using these good people as a means to justify and advocate their ways. They keep Sunday holy, thereby violating the Sabbath, by changing times and laws. They keep hethen festivals that has been calibrated to fit their system. They keep a bible where names and principalities have been changed to fit their own situation. And they call their priests fathers and the pope the holy father thereby rising their tent even above the Father which is in Heaven. They love gold, money, fine garments and art above all. They have made it a sport to kill a man for a wound and a boy for a scratch. And the list is endless.

The disciples of the Messiah follow the Law of Moses according to the teachings of Jesus. Period.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Mega, your an idiot. That's it.

The reason why I don't defend Islam when you bash it is because everything you say is not true.

Why wont you read some history.

I've posted this so many times.

Christian Europe= war, murder, ignorance

Islam Europe= peace, love, and unity.

You are so out of touch with history it's scary.

Do you even know why the Moors (African Muslims) conquered the Iberian Peninsula?

It wasnt for greed, which is the the fuel for every Christian conquest.

The real reason was because the Christians were slaughtering Jews left and right. Some Jews escaped to North Africa and asked the Muslims for help. The Muslims helped their Jewish brethren. They set out to Spain and Portugal and slaughtered all those Christian PIGS.

When that happened, Europed was in the darkness. ISLAM WAS THE LIGHT.

Islam sparked every single Renainassnace in Europe.

Islam was the rebirth of Europe.

Islam resurrected Christianity.

Muslims, Christians, and Jews lived in peace. Muslim rules let Christians and Jews practice their religion freely, just like Saladin in Jerusalem.

As a matterr of fact, Muslim rules killed Muslims who even dared touch a Christian or a Jew.

Read history.

Originally posted by mikromarius
Did you know that Mohammed the Arab prophet discerned between the Christians and the followers of Jesus? Interresting since Islam was born in a time when the church departed from the original teachings layed down by Jesus of Nazareth.

Well it goes something like this: Christianity/the church is a secular state organisation with all the caracteristics of a nation (world wide nation that is), a continuance of the Roman Empire and the other beasts mentioned by Daniel the prophet, Ezra the Scribe and John the Theologican. It has raised it's tent above the kings and the emperors claiming to be a representative of God. The other group is the followers of Jesus, they sell everything they own, leave their families and everything that is keeping them in bounds and live out the teachings of Jesus according to the Law Moses mediated. They are mostly Jews, but also some who have come from the nations to celebrate God the way God wants it.

The Christians/Church keep idols, pray to angels and something they call saints a kind of psevdo-gods who followed the ways of the Church and is thereby honoured in order to justify the ways of the Church using these good people as a means to justify and advocate their ways. They keep Sunday holy, thereby violating the Sabbath, by changing times and laws. They keep hethen festivals that has been calibrated to fit their system. They keep a bible where names and principalities have been changed to fit their own situation. And they call their priests fathers and the pope the holy father thereby rising their tent even above the Father which is in Heaven. They love gold, money, fine garments and art above all. They have made it a sport to kill a man for a wound and a boy for a scratch. And the list is endless.

The disciples of the Messiah follow the Law of Moses according to the teachings of Jesus. Period.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Very good post and most importantly- it's true.

Good points Il67. But Islam back then was in the christian age when it first started.

First, christianity good. It follows the rules it stole from jews, so forth. But then it became corrupt, started wars, killed innocents because they weren't christian, so forth.

Islam, good at first. It followed the rules that were set by Allah. But then it to became corrupt. Only thing is, christianity started pulling away from the blind faith and into science. Just wait, Islam today will change in the next 2-4 hundred years and be where christianity is today. Except they still only have one person to worship. No god, son, spirit, angel #1-198, saint #398-29948575698, and won't be conning people out of there money. I have never heard/seen a Mauslim guy going "You don't give me money, you go to hell!!!!!"

But still, sorry IL67, until it matures, it will be like christianity was when it was in power. Thankfully this time, this religon, this group hasn't lead wars and Inqusitions on millions and killing them. Just Isreal and America. While that is bad, but if we had CNN/MSNBC/FOXNEWS, all you would have seen was another attack today by the church, killing seven, injuring none.

If only we had them back then. We would have some great news. Not just a building with a gaping hole in it, but thousands of bodies that were once human until were boiled in oil or drowned or burnt or dismembered and so forth.

Ilmatic I just have one question,
Exactly what do Iberian Peninsula christians have to do with whichever christians atacking the jews?

I meanI am from Iberian Peninsula and actually I am glad the Moors or "mouros" as we call them here (became a slang word actually) invaded us, we benefited greatly scientifically for example, however I don't see the connection as jews are like in the opposite corner of a map of Europe/Middle east

Illmatic67 you are wrong, you just agree with anything that is against christianity while your knowledge about what you are agreeing is laughable.

Mohamad is false prophet who is now burning in hell, and you are admiring him while evil is laughing at you. This was revealed by Dante.

Illmatic67: Muslims, Christians, and Jews lived in peace. Muslim rules let Christians and Jews practice their religion freely, just like Saladin in Jerusalem.
This is BS and you know it.
I should give you a tour among some "peaceful" muslim countries. I will say I am christian and we can observe their nice and tolerant reaction.

There was never peace where christians and muslims are together and don't try to sell those kid stories.
You prove me right by attacking christianity wherever you can, and by doing so you are forcing me to prove that Islam is a bunch of nonsense when I could just tolerate you.

NONE OF YOU has any rights to attack beliefs of other people.
It is very rude, arrogant and proves how primitive creatures you are.
So don't be surprised when you see you are heavily opposed.

James the lesser: Christianity did not steal commandments from Jews. Jesus was Jew! King of Jews, messiah who was prophecied in old testament in which Jews believe.
Christians believe in the same God as Jews but Jews refused to believe in Jesus..

[Edited on 16-7-2003 by Megaquad]

Mega, you are an exact duplicate of the coward, stupid Christians back then who made up lies against Muhammad and Islam because they feared it so much.

Mohamad is false prophet who is now burning in hell, and you are admiring him while evil is laughing at you. This was revealed by Dante.

Yea, and according to Dante, great minds like Plato and Socrates are also in hell ( The Divine Comedy ). Who is this man who thinks he knows who's in hell or not? Dante was the symbol for Islamic hatred, saying Muhammad was in the Eight Circle of Hell. You refer to him as a significant figure, that's right because your a Christian. Christians have dozens of idols they place near God.

All those ignorant Christians did like you was create lies. That's what they were good. They said Jews murdered children and mixed their blood in the Passover bread also.

Wasnt it Pope Gregory IX who passed a law that said Jews and Muslims must wear distinct clothing when in public areas? That remind you of anyone?

It's people like you that makes me hate Christianity so much. Don't forget I used to be a Christian, so I know exactly what the hell I'm talking about.


Hmm, let's see what else kind of myths they spread. Oh yea, Christians said Muhammad died in 666. They called him the anti-christ. They even made a myth about him where he was called Mahmoud, you know... the 3 headed monster who terrorized Christian Europe? Yep that's him. Made around the same thing the myths of King Arthur and Robin Hood.


Mega, you don't know nothing about history. Dont you know when Islam was the world power Europe was being taken over by barbarians and it became a wasteland? Christians of western Europe werent even bathing everyday while in Cordova, EVERYONE shared in public bathing.

Pope Clement V delcared the Islamic presence on Christian soil an insult to God.

The same Islam that brought the light to Europe.

See the lies Christians spread?

All the rumors because they feared it so much?

All the hate they had inside of them though they didnt know what Islam is?

People hate what they can't understand

That's you.

Originally posted by Antichrist
I'll speak for him, it isn't.
Christianity poses a threat to all humankind, firstly I feel ashamed I am one of a race of which some individuals believe in christianity,

secondly, Christianity must be stoped, with al extremism and sh1t going on today and with the current technological advancement the last thing I want is a religious nuclear war.

Thirdly, I don't like to bow to christian morality, and if I don't I'll be arrested/killed, with the only option of living as an hermit, which I don't want to, if we fight christianity, someday all the morals, values and ethics which were absorbed by society will someday vanish for good.

And more, who grants me that in a near future I won't be obligated to follow and practice the christian religion by some extremist government, NWO perhaps?

Now I surely would not want that, and thus I (we) fight.

Point 1 - From which planet do you hail? On this planet, there is nothing threatening about Christianity. Your ignorance of Christianity should be what makes you feel ashamed as you say things like this that has no bearing or basis in fact.

Point 2 - Your ignorance of Christianity is shining through again. Followers of Christ are not threatening the world with violence, much less violence with nuclear weapons. Had you a clue about Christianity other than what you read on Hate sites (and from them you will learn nothing about Christianity) you'd realize that following Christ's teaching would rid the threat of violence.

Point 3 - What part of the Christian morality do you not like? You have a problem with the constitutionally protected, God given rights granted by God? You have a problem with the golden rule? Maybe the things like don't kill, steal, cheat on your wife, be a good steward of both the land and your money...what is it tha tyou find distasteful? Never mind. I doubt I'd understand.

As far as your last thoughts, don't sweat it. Were you to pay attention you'd realize that Christianity will not be the New Order religion. As a matter of fact, I don't know how much longer it will be, but there is going to come a time somewhat soon that you'll not be bothered with Christians or their morality. At least for seven years, anyway.

Part 1. You will read many threats in christianity in the huge amount of posts I've been writing lately. Just search trough this forum.

Part 2. Not now, right now followers of christ, at least the extremist ones, don't have political power, what happens if they do we all know, religious war, too obvious and obviously they'd use nukes against, for example, islam in the blink of an eye.
I don't read hate-sites, but if you would provide me with url's I'd apreciate, thanks.
I need not to know more about christianism then I already do.
I realise following christ has deceased mankind. That's all there is to realise.

Part 3. I have a problem of morals, the essence of morals I have a problem with.
A set of morals like the christian one is secondary but due to hating morals in itself I can't accept christian morals.
You wouldn't understand, HOWEVER I can provide you with good authors to read and increase your overall culture and specifically existencial and philosophycal understanding, just ask.



Part 3.

Originally posted by Antichrist
Part 1. You will read many threats in christianity in the huge amount of posts I've been writing lately. Just search trough this forum.

Part 2. Not now, right now followers of christ, at least the extremist ones, don't have political power, what happens if they do we all know, religious war, too obvious and obviously they'd use nukes against, for example, islam in the blink of an eye.
I don't read hate-sites, but if you would provide me with url's I'd apreciate, thanks.
I need not to know more about christianism then I already do.
I realise following christ has deceased mankind. That's all there is to realise.

Part 3. I have a problem of morals, the essence of morals I have a problem with.
A set of morals like the christian one is secondary but due to hating morals in itself I can't accept christian morals.
You wouldn't understand, HOWEVER I can provide you with good authors to read and increase your overall culture and specifically existencial and philosophycal understanding, just ask.



Part 3.

1- You can read alot of things wrong in the Bible when you don't understand what you are reading. Those with the Holy Spirit within haven't that problem.

2- The "extremist" followers are even better to have in power than those who call themselves Christian but are lukwarm and ignorant in their own faith. Again, there is fault in your logic.

3- My cultural knowledge is not lacking, you haven't a need to feel superior. I need no list of reading material. As far as hating all morals, that in itself is irratioanl as if we all were that way, society would be short in surviving. You, sir, and your notions are the threat. You and any like you are the ones that need to be watched and kept out of any position of authority.

I am attacking unknown? Hypocrite! You started attack on christianity first and that is very offensive.

Your claiming that you know something about christianity just because you were one before is ridiculous. Spirit doesn't reveal itself to everyone, it sure didn't show the truth to someone who became muslim.

"great minds like Plato and Socrates" - perhaps if you use your corrupt human judgement. We have no idea what people they truly were. God loves small ones, and only God can judge and know hearts of people.

I don't know history? All I have heard from you is funny propaganda that you expect somebody will believe.

Muslims are the ones who created cowardly myth that gospels were "censored" in many ways in Nicene council, this is simply desperate attempt to justify your religion because bible proves it wrong.

>"All the rumors because they feared it so much?"
This is so stupid I don't have to comment, you are really getting on my nerves.
Same words were used by nazis, communists and all other great evils of Earth for intimidating.

I fully understand pope's decision because Islam is blasphemy and insult to God and threat to stability and security of any nation.

As for wasteland, go look at muslim countries if you want to know.
Countries with christian roots are advanced, and more importantly, people have rights, something you Islam primitivists don't understand. Name me one normal Islam country!
All of them are poor, violence and disasters happen all the time.

Islam is all nice in theory, but history has shown its true face.


[Edited on 16-7-2003 by Megaquad]

Just a thought, but did anyone ever stop and think about why religion was made in the first place? My theory is that people as a whole need to be governed, so maybe in stead of a formal government they created a religion, where god is the ultimate punisher for those who are evil. I think the idea of afterlife is there for people who are not able to function realizing once they die, its over for them. They need someone to hold their hand and tell them everything is going to be OK. I may be way off, but like I said, its my theory. Just my $.02

Thomas Crowne, you are very limited, you are in need of bigger horizons,

I recommend,
Nietzsche
Albert Camus
Jean-Paul Sartre

And that should do it, reading that, you should be able to understand that our society is in no way relevant, nor is order and survival. Remember there is neither meaning nor goal. That's your christian premise which you seem to apply to others' logic, that is why you find others' logic faulty.
What you need, is to put aside your christian notions and begin from the void when analysing someone's thought and logic.

How come extremists are better to have in power?!
Maybe we should consider having Osama Bin Laden as the president of the US? Think as the weak, not as the strong in society damn it, bet you'd like Islam Extremists taking over the world.

What does the bible and my understanding of it have to do with this particular arguement? I thought we were done with bible morality and discussing morality in itself, it seems I am maybe going too fast? oh well...

Extreemist are reactionaries they are only better to have in power, by those they are not reacting to.

That does not make them better.

Whatever happened with non-believers who had some class such as Bertrand Russell who advocated Christian morals. Yes that is right, agnostic Russell actually advocated Christian morals, feeling that the basic morality of the Bible was superior. As for Nietzsche, Nietzsche => concept of the superman => concept of the Aryan master race => Nazi concept on unter mensch => concept of the death camps => millions of Russians and Jews killed. This is what happens when you can make your own morality, Hitler was acting consistently with his moral outlook (Aryans are master race, Jews are untermensch, kill Jews and Slavs to make room for Aryan master race). Neitzsche would have approved because Hitler made his own moral code.

As for the Crusades (as if that was the only war ever fought in history), primogeniture was just as much of a cause as any other. If you check, the great majority of the knights who fought in the Crusades were second and third sons.

Your claiming that you know something about christianity just because you were one before is ridiculous. Spirit doesn't reveal itself to everyone, it sure didn't show the truth to someone who became muslim.

Actually yes it does. I used to be on the other end of the argument. Trust me, I know more than you on your own religion. You know zero on Islam. Keep watching CNN

Muslims are the ones who created cowardly myth that gospels were "censored" in many ways in Nicene council, this is simply desperate attempt to justify your religion because bible proves it wrong.

Myth? No, that's true. The Bible has indeed been censored and the Bible of today is not the Bible of 2,000 years ago. Many of it has been lost through the translations. Explain to my why there's dozens of versions of the Bible.