The U.F.O. skeptics are in denial

a reply to: JimOberg

Jim you seem to enjoy throwing shade at those who refuse to reject the ET UFO hypothesis, without actually offering any evidence to refute the theory

Exactly how much time have you spent in the air again? Talk to a few professional aviators some time and listen to their stories very interesting stuff

a reply to: Harte

More wasteful sliding.

Point is still totally valid, simple humans once thought the Earth was flat. That was eventually proven untrue. The when was entirely unrelated to the point I made

Just as those who were burned alive by other small brained humans for believing the (get this) Sun and universe revolved...around EARTH! HAH!

Science also once failed to identify microorganisms as the cause of diseases. Then people got smarter as technology got better and the science caught up

Same traffic RE UFOs

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Harte

More wasteful sliding.

Point is still totally valid, simple humans once thought the Earth was flat. That was eventually proven untrue. The when was entirely unrelated to the point I made

Just as those who were burned alive by other small brained humans for believing the (get this) Sun and universe revolved...around EARTH! HAH!

Science also once failed to identify microorganisms as the cause of diseases. Then people got smarter as technology got better and the science caught up

Same traffic RE UFOs

I think you misstated your example.
But, how many people were burned alive for believing the Earth went around the Sun?

I don't see how your imaginings about being burned alive supported your point.
After all, there was CLEAR evidence that the Sun moved around the Earth for a very long time before measurement technology advanced enough to refine the theory.

And while there is CLEAR evidence of UFOs, there is not even an iota of evidence that they are fromm off world.

Harte

ETA: Also, though I've asked twice, there's been no answer concerning exactly who these people are that have said that UFOs don't exist, so there's no evidence for that either.

H.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: JimOberg

Jim you seem to enjoy throwing shade at those who refuse to reject the ET UFO hypothesis, without actually offering any evidence to refute the theory

Exactly how much time have you spent in the air again? Talk to a few professional aviators some time and listen to their stories very interesting stuff

Theories must be PROVEN, it's not up to skeptics to prove they have NOT been proven. As for my view of pilot misperception patterns, several years ago, I described the ‘questionable foundation’ of Leslie Kean’s book as the naïve and unverified faith in pilot reports. She has insisted the UFOs show intelligent purpose based on their perception of the nature of their witnesses, since they behave differently when seen by military pilots than when seen by civilian pilots [when the more common-sense explanation is that different pilots report observations in terms of what they expect from their own different experience bases]. The data archives she touts as ‘unexplainable’ pilot sightings [such as the French ‘Weinstein Report’] can easily be shown to contain numerous pilot misinterpretations of unrecognized space and missile activity around the world, so who knows how many other prosaic explanations were never found by the ‘investigators’? See here:

web.archive.org...:/www.nbcnews.com/id/38852385

As Hynek and others repeatedly discovered, pilots are not dispassionate nature-viewers, they are survival-focused specialists in avoiding lethal hazards in the air, and as such they properly interpret visual stimuli in the most hazardous [and closest] manifestation, AS THEY SHOULD. As early as the 1930s scientists realized that pilots were POOR observers of mid-air objects such as meteors and they continue to be poor observers of missile and space events, and we WANT them to be, in order to enhance the chances of them and their passengers staying alive -- better too many 'false-positive' avoidance reactions, than a single false-negative in a genuine collision-course event.
1936 REPORT ON WHY PILOTS WERE POOR OBSERVERS OF METEORS
adsabs.harvard.edu...



CONTEMPORARY PILOT MISPERCEPTIONS OF MISSILE/SPACE EVENTS
web.archive.org...://www.zipworld.com.au/~psmith/pilot-ufos.html

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: JimOberg

Jim you seem to enjoy throwing shade at those who refuse to reject the ET UFO hypothesis, without actually offering any evidence to refute the theory

Exactly how much time have you spent in the air again? Talk to a few professional aviators some time and listen to their stories very interesting stuff

Very good points. Pilots make excellent eyewitnesses of U,F.O.'s according to Hynek. Here's how Hynek quantified his statement in 1960 based on the data available in 1960.



What happened since then? Pilots have become Technical Persons with millions of dollars of the best technical training in the world. It's probably well under 50% today because a Technical Person today is way more advanced than a Technical Person in 1960. Here's some of Pilot training. These are the people being called unreliable idiots by psudoskeptics.

Here's more about Navy Pilot Training starting in the 70's.

Advances in computer technology had an impact on training at USNTPS beginning in the 1970s with the introduction of aircraft capable of variable stability including the Calspan Learjet, which remains a cornerstone of flight training at the school today. Advancements in technology during that decade required the school to expand its curriculum again to incorporate airborne systems and to lengthen the syllabus from eight months to the current 11 months, which the school deemed sufficient to allow more flight opportunities and time to absorb class instruction and apply it in the air.

navalaviationnews.navylive.dodlive.mil...

Here's some info on Pilots in Air Force:

The test pilot will be following carefully-crafted flight profiles, not daring aerial maneuvers. They must be taught to handle his airplane with extraordinary precision: to control their airspeed to the nearest knot, and their altitude virtually to the foot--every time. Beyond this, the student test pilot must have a natural affinity for mechanical systems, an ability to "feel" the airplane and have a well-honed sense of what is happening at any given time. Mature and reasoned judgment is also vital - human lives, and millions of dollars, depend upon how carefully a test mission is planned and flown. But all of these skills would be useless without knowledge and training - systematic training in gathering flight data, and then interpreting it. Minutes spent in precision flying must be matched by hours of painstaking effort at computers, in the library, and around the conference table.

It is obvious that in the world of flight testing, there simply is no room for "second best." That is why the Air Force Test Pilot School (TPS) takes such pains to make certain that its graduates are the equal to any in their profession.

The U.S. Air Force Test Pilot School selection board convenes annually in July. Those interested in becoming a test pilot, test combat systems officer, test remotely piloted aircraft pilot or flight test engineer are encouraged to apply. Applicants from all aircraft types and backgrounds must have strong academic and technical experience.

www.edwards.af.mil...

So based on Hynek's criteria, Military Pilots are excellent eywitnesses of U.F.O.'s because of their technical training which makes them Technical Persons. A Pilot in the 60's or Technical Persons in the 60's can't compare to the Technical training of Pilots in the 70's, 80's, 90's and up to today.

Will pseudoskeptics admit that based on the technical training of Pilots that they make excellent eyewitnesses at identifying U.F.O.'s?

Of course they won't they're pseudoskeptics. They live in the land of Illogica!

originally posted by: neoholographic


Jim you seem to enjoy throwing shade at those who refuse to reject the ET UFO hypothesis, without actually offering any evidence to refute the theory .... Pilots have become Technical Persons with millions of dollars of the best technical training in the world. ...These are the people being called unreliable idiots by psudoskeptics.

Show me where ANYBODY has called any pilot an "unreliable idiot", as opposed to suspecting you are one?

originally posted by: neoholographic

Very good points. Pilots make excellent eyewitnesses of U,F.O.'s according to Hynek. Here's how Hynek quantified his statement in 1960 based on the data available in 1960.

They do?
Maybe I'm reading your attachment wrong. Doesn't it say that, even with multiple military pilot witnesses, they still misidentify 76% of the time?
That doesn't seem so excellent to me.

Harte

originally posted by: Harte
....
Maybe I'm reading your attachment wrong. Doesn't it say that, even with multiple military pilot witnesses, they still misidentify 76% of the time? That doesn't seem so excellent to me.
Harte

He's no longer counting TODAY'S pilots as 'pilots' but as 'technical people'. By swapping category definitions he gets to steal another group's scores.

Realistically, I suspect the opposite could be true [that modern pilots are even 'worse' observers] since today's pilots spend LESS time looking outside and more time watching instruments.

MAJOR BREAKING NEWS!!!

TTSA has done it again!!!! TTSA has been a godsend to Ufology.

Thank-you Chris Mellon and Lue Elizondo for your efforts despite the dubious efforts of several crackpots (they know who they are) .




WE HAVE A CRAFT BABY!!!!!

a reply to: celltypespecific

WE HAVE A CRAFT BABY!!!!!

Where?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: celltypespecific

WE HAVE A CRAFT BABY!!!!!

Where?

Lockheed has it.

More to come.

a reply to: celltypespecific

More to come.

Okey dokey

a reply to: celltypespecific


Sorry but this is terrible. Side skirts if we have something or not, just saying the same thing "we should look into it". Only the gov can verify this and they aren't going to. Mellon did not at all say we have a craft lol. I feel like these are just promos for the show he makes money off of as he's not saying anything that matters.

Then he refers to Trump (who is babbling lies to look important as he's know to do) talking about Roswell when anyone who has seen that video knows Trump was confused and meant Are 51 as he specifically talked about thousands wanting to be able to go into Roswell and see what's going on. WTF? You can go to Roswell anytime you want, you clearly mean Area 51. Trump is obviously baiting his supporters if they elect him again he might give them some info. You know, just like how he will get around to draining the swamp in the second term.

a reply to: celltypespecific

He believes, just that, an opinion. His credentials are meaningless, until we see an alien vehicle. He was (is?) an Intel dude, he can't convince me of anything.

originally posted by: vance
a reply to: celltypespecific

He believes, just that, an opinion. His credentials are meaningless, until we see an alien vehicle. He was (is?) an Intel dude, he can't convince me of anything.

First everyone thought "AATIP was not real"...(Proven incorrect)....

Then "AATIP did not study UFOs" (Proven incorrect)...

"the UFO Vidoes are not real" (Proven incorrect by the DoD)...

"Lue Elizondo is was not the director" (Proven incorrect by the DoD)...


DON'T YOU SEE A PATTERN HERE...................???

Let me try to be clear.....

The NYT is hinting that we are officially in possession of Materials Retrieved from an "OFF WORLD" Craft....

THIS WILL BE PROVEN TO BE TRUE

a reply to: celltypespecific

Yawn

originally posted by: celltypespecific

originally posted by: vance
a reply to: celltypespecific

He believes, just that, an opinion. His credentials are meaningless, until we see an alien vehicle. He was (is?) an Intel dude, he can't convince me of anything.

First everyone thought "AATIP was not real"...(Proven incorrect)....

Then "AATIP did not study UFOs" (Proven incorrect)...

"the UFO Vidoes are not real" (Proven incorrect by the DoD)...

"Lue Elizondo is was not the director" (Proven incorrect by the DoD)...


DON'T YOU SEE A PATTERN HERE...................???

Let me try to be clear.....

The NYT is hinting that we are officially in possession of Materials Retrieved from an "OFF WORLD" Craft....

THIS WILL BE PROVEN TO BE TRUE

In like 100 years when society collapses and a struggling band of survivors wanders into area 51 and finds some aliens having a rave.

I never doubted all the initial stuff you listed but unless some major whistle blower shows up with some amazing photos or pieces of a craft that can be tested independently the gov is not disclosing that they have something. The gov won't even admit there is more to the 3 TTS videos! Maybe down the road if we actually turn into a peaceful society that wants to explore the universe. But we have been in endless cold war and war/war too long for the military to admit they have access to some advanced tech that may give us the upper hand. Plus, if true, it's just as likely other countries have it as well (stuff only crashes in the US? doubt it unless there was only one crash ever and we got lucky) so it's another cold war but of who can back engineer their alien tech the fastest and to their best advantage.

TTS has been hinting around for a while now they have access to meta materials but if they don't come out this season with some amazing evidence about them it's likely the materials failed the tests of being "out of this world". They are really stepping away from those claims lately and it's telling IMO. It will just be another Curse of Oak Island with tons of lead up speculation on something extraordinary ...and then they just stop talking about it lol.

a reply to: neoholographic


Exactly; the beat continues with these guys.

a reply to: JimOberg

1936?

Give it up , man. Objective observation and corroboration has been occurring since WWII. Misidentification has been occurring for the same . The problem is consistently dismissing claims intermixed with debunking through scientific processes. Is there any claim of ET derived UFO that you find valid?

The only issue incessant debunkers will have is if they live long enough to become convinced otherwise. Most understand or at least surmise by now that there are "forces/interests/complexes" that have vested interest in suppression of ET and technological advances. Each has their legal and philosophical reason why it is necessary to provide a cynical context. But, as stated, unless they actually have a CE, they will keep doing their thing.

Jim , Arb, Phage, and Mirage keep doing your thing because, yes, there is a lot of CGI and slick hoaxers on the planet.

However, this being said, to me its like being a short seller in the market. Usually, if you are short you have to be more informed and convinced of the contrary. Wrong and you pay margin interest and can have a position run away. Its getting a more difficult position (a debunker) to be in and I admire that.

Even guys like Mirage, who go after Lazar might end up eating crow one day. Just sayin'

originally posted by: celltypespecific
MAJOR BREAKING NEWS!!!

TTSA has done it again!!!! TTSA has been a godsend to Ufology.

Thank-you Chris Mellon and Lue Elizondo for your efforts despite the dubious efforts of several crackpots (they know who they are) .

WE HAVE A CRAFT BABY!!!!!

Sit down and take a breather.
I've read that hyped-up NYT article. A "classified briefing" doesn't mean we have a craft.
There are several possibilities, not the least of which would be merely ensuring we have systems in place to successfully retrieve and preserve one if we ever did find one.
Also could have been a report of findings concerning the various "samples" of claimed extraterrestrial materials.

In other words, we got nothing.

Harte