Why America needs the draft again

a reply to: stonerwilliam

The gentlemen i respected in my life and who taught me things all did National service /conscription and talked fondle of it . we have infrastructure that is falling apart and a youth that is fat and lazy and needs a good shake up the ass , Girls do girls stuff like nursing for a 2 year period and boys do boy stuff like learn to build not blow up

So you want the youth of another country than your own, to be drafted, because they dont respect you/your generation??
Following the above statement from you, you clearly DONT respect them at all.... why should they respect you??

While i agree that being drafted in the UK or in scandinavia where iam from, can be an very educational experience for young adults, it will earn you zero respect. The US is in constant war all around the world - it will earn you lots of death grandsons though - is that what you want?

You want respect? Well you have to show respect, to earn it - its the way its allways been.

Whos job was it to teach the young real values and respect for other people? the older generations you say? well there you have it, monkey see monkey doo. maybe it is the older generation who is to blame?
How many world leaders can you name, under the age of 40??? Iam guessing not many, if any at all

YOU CANT BLAME THE YOUNG FOR HAVING BAD TEACHERS AND ROLEMODELS - blame yourself if you must
Which generation was it that let the CIA and american goverment spread drugs in the USA and in the rest of the western world 50 years ago? Because of that, we have all the gangs and drugs problems - 90% if not more of all criminal acts are drug related - which generation is it your are blaming again??

Sure the kids is to blame, just like the poor is allways the ones stealing the money, right...

originally posted by: stonerwilliam

originally posted by: conspiracy nut
Wouldn't be a bad idea to have 2 years mandatory across the board service that transfers over as college credits. Would build character, work ethic, morals and values if instituted correctly.

Exactly if us mere mortals can figure out how to fix the problem of the youth of today why are we paying idiots to mess it up

Sounds like you want to pay idiots to teach kids war.
Sounds like you are trying to escape your responsibility as part of the older generation, to teach and show love to the younger generations - you generation have failed, sons of the great generation, or rather sons of war! How did war save your generation did you say? When there is no fathers left because of war, who is gonna teach the kids??

If you want change, you cant ask other people to do your work - if you want change, real change - go out and be a rolemodel for young ones who need it - But no one will listen if you show them zero respect like you do in this thread and iam also guessing you would rather sit home in the comfort of your chair, and tell people from another country that their country are # and they need to draft everybody for military servies so you can respect them again

When you generation bought your first television and placed yourself in the couch, you never got up again - your generation left your kids to be raised by the television, and you cant understand why we have the problems we have today!?! Take some responsibility for your own actions - what did you do to change the world for the better? You got drafted, what else?

a reply to: Drucifer

I don’t think I’ll ever get to a point in life where I find it to be a good idea to force anyone to do anything they don’t want to do, outside of sending criminals to prison.

I can understand that and to a large extent I agree with it.
But something needs to be done to redress this slide.

I get the point and I’m sure it would work out in some cases, however, the government can’t be trusted to run anything without f*cking it up.......

I think it could work in quite a few cases....but nothing can be truer than your point about government incompetence.
Unfortunately the alternatives are obsessed with making a profit thus adding cost.

......and, especially at this point in time, the only thing this would produce is a bunch of young adults pissed off that they were forced to do something they were told is for their own good.

Whereas we currently we have a whole generation consumed with a sense of entitlement and completely unable to deal with the harsh realities of life.
And they are soon to have increasingly idle hands......

It’s astounding to me that so many who claim they’re for freedom are consistently posting things on ATS that is the complete opposite of freedom.

Freedom is something we all have to aspire for......unfortunately my life experiences has made me realise that there's always someone trying to impose their version of freedom or infringe upon our freedoms.
The harsh cold reality of life is that freedom isn't free and comes at a cost.

Reading many of the replies here you would have thought the OP had been advocating forcibly detaining teenagers, press ganging them into military service in frontline theatres of war, imposing draconian restrictions on their lives and restricting their rights to speak and think.
Nothing of the sort has been suggested.
Some people just seem to love expressing faux outrage and blatantly blowing things out of proportion for dramatic effect and/or to further an engrained political ideology.

But hell, we got members here calling for the death of people who have not been tried in court, for crimes we do not kill people for, so I suppose I’m not too surprised.

Hyperbole?
They are accusations you could never direct at me and as far as I recollect the OP either so I don't see how you can connect the two here?

so you want people forced to fight wars OVER OIL ? Religion ? money ?
in in 1919 a man rose to power by the name of Hitler a man which had every intention of killing off well dam near every race except special and only pure blood special Germans .

A man which drug the world to the very edge of total destruction . A man in which ALL men had reason to fight die to protect the young the poor the so called Unfit .

Every war after that was all for nothing more then Gain of one type or any other . Why should I send MY sons TO die so the US can control petrol Dollar oil ? why should my sons die so a rich man can just keep getting richer and after he comes home CANT EVEN GET HEALTH Insurance !

The gun fanitics are welcome to prove how stupid they are dieing to protect POPPY Fields .
The day ever comes and the next MAD man rises then once again all men will have a reason to fight and kill .
Not over weapons or mass destruction in the country who HAS THE MOST weapons of mass destruction they Never find from a country who never made one threat to the US .

One of the very few things we have left is NOT having to die for any of this .
I am Not afraid to Fight But the fight better be worth FIGHTING . The rest of any one can go get drunk and get oin bar vfights and Gain jail time pain and lose of money Less then Nothing .

This is Modern War Less then Nothing .

a reply to: Freeborn

I can understand that and to a large extent I agree with it.
But something needs to be done to redress this slide.

This "slide" these conflicts, invasions, and us bring on the brink of a major war all the time is to do with the people who run our governments. Making it so that people have to have to do militery service only benafits those people in power.

Thst is what needs to change. Militery service will do absolutly nothing. The only thing it will do is make people more patriotic, which means these sociopaths can use them, just like what we have seen time and time again.

a reply to: Jay-morris

So, only military trainsing can do that? Sorry, I do not agree, .....

Well whatever they are doing now is failing miserably - including our politically correct infested education system - judging by the number of hyper sensitive, entitled snowflakes or the number of feral wannabe's obsessed with gangsta culture.
Both lack any sort of personal or communal responsibility and feel the world owes them everything and seem unwilling and/or incapable of showing even a modicum of drive, application and sheer bloody hard work and are devoid of any manners or respect.

......and the only thing this does is turn more people into conditioned patriots, which we do not need.

On what do you base that assumption?
Does everyone who has served in our Armed Forces fit into that broad generalisation?

Sperry, but no one should have to do that if they do not want too.

Sometimes we ALL have to do things we don't want to....it's called life.

You can do all that without military training.

How?
Where?

No playing soldier and killing anyone.

FFS, and yet again; no-one has advocated that in this thread.....in fact it has been repeatedly stated that no-one would support that.

I am beginning to believe that people simply read what they want to read and interpret things to fit their own pre-conceived ideas and beliefs.

It really couldn't have been made any clearer that that wouldn't be the intention.

But in this day and age, chances you could be involved in some conflict on a big scale. That's where we are heading, and what better for these sociopathic leaders to get folks blood pumping to do their bidding? Give them a sense of patriotic pride.

What exactly is wrong with 'patriotic pride'?

Sorry, but I completly disagree, and I hope in this day and age, something lime that does not return to my country.

So what do you think all these teenagers leaving school with a crap education, no sense of self-worth, socially and psychologically unfit to handle the harsh reality of life and no jobs and no prospects are going to do?

Each to their own I guess. I yhink you have to be a patriot to have these kind of ideas.

Again, what exactly is wrong with a bit of national pride?

I am not a patriot.

That's pretty obvious....but that is your right.

Country pride is no longer celebrated or taught. Instead we have whiny brats who didn't get their way so they cry and break stuff. We now live in the temper tantrum era.

a reply to: Freeborn

Well whatever they are doing now is failing miserably - including our politically correct infested education system - judging by the number of hyper sensitive, entitled snowflakes or the number of feral wannabe's obsessed with gangsta culture.
Both lack any sort of personal or communal responsibility and feel the world owes them everything and seem unwilling and/or incapable of showing even a modicum of drive, application and sheer bloody hard work and are devoid of any manners or respect.

The whole world is going made. It's scary times we live in, it really is. I remember watching an interview, and they were talking about how there could have been many civilizations out there in the universe, which are now gone because they could not get through the stage we are going through now. They just ended up destroying eachother. I really do think we are at that stage now, and have been since ww1.

On what do you base that assumption?
Does everyone who has served in our Armed Forces fit into that broad generalisation?

What's more patriotic than fighting for your country? When you go into service, patrioism is drilled into you, does not matter what country you are from. Just look at past wars and conflicts justified or not.

Sometimes we ALL have to do things we don't want to....it's called life.

And why should we have to do it? Because we are told we have to by powerful people who do not guve a crap if we live or die? Sorry, I completly disagree with you.

How?
Where?

Well, for starters, waking up and just not taking this sh#t anymore. For people to say no. Even illegal invasions, people will be involved, for their country. They eill do horrors, for their country, they will come back and have a f#cked up life, for their country, while certain people get rich from wars, invasions, being involved in certain invasions. When are people going to wake up!

Governments are only a small percentage of the world population, but they control us and hold our lives, and our families lives in their hands.

FFS, and yet again; no-one has advocated that in this thread.....in fact it has been repeatedly stated that no-one would support that.

I am beginning to believe that people simply read what they want to read and interpret things to fit their own pre-conceived ideas and beliefs.

It really couldn't have been made any clearer that that wouldn't be the intention.

You are instilling it in people! Look how brain washed we all are now when it comes to governments, patrioism, and our country.

What exactly is wrong with 'patriotic pride'?

When people are over patriotic, it's easy for their governments do do what they do, because they are doing it for their country. When you are over patriotic, it's easier to ignore your own governments horrors, while pointing your finger at other countries and their horrors.

So what do you think all these teenagers leaving school with a crap education, no sense of self-worth, socially and psychologically unfit to handle the harsh reality of life and no jobs and no prospects are going to do?

Seriously? And doing militery service is going to make that all better? You are still going to have those problems, militery service is not going to fix those problems.

Again, what exactly is wrong with a bit of national pride?

I have answered this.

That's pretty obvious....but that is your right.

Yes, it is my right.

I want the best for this planet, as the human race, not my country. For someone who has been to many places outside of my country, I know this is more important than my country.

If we are going to survive, it's going to have to be us, as the human race, not countries still dealing in tribal warfare.

originally posted by: jidnum
Country pride is no longer celebrated or taught. Instead we have whiny brats who didn't get their way so they cry and break stuff. We now live in the temper tantrum era.

Course there is still patrioism! Why do you think we still see wars, invasions and conflicts all over the world?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: stonerwilliam
I thought that was from the speech about the Media ?? much like what is happening today with president Trump

Nope.

And the speech I think you're alluding to, The President and the Press, was given in 1961.

I stand corrected then AM it was before my time ,I always thought it was the press speech

a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

I was merely suggesting that the youth of today who cannot afford to move out of the basement because of a shortage of affordable housing , jobs and looming automation and millions of job losses on the horizon Get the same level of care as we did 30-40 years ago , not turn them into mad killing machines of the future , but they are there already with the shoot em up games they play 18 hours of the day .

Western governments are botching this badly and the private sector has dropped the ball badly , Government of the UK starts a project sends out tenders and the bill for a hundred miles or so of HS2 goes from 30 to 100 + billion they cannot be trusted to do something on time and on budget . we need the army to take over for the organizational skills and rather than pay 40-70k a year to keep some of them in Jail , You invest in housing jobs and infrastructure Just like China did you pay the youth a bit more than benefits would give them for a period of 2 years then send some to college to do what they want for a 2 year window they are still only 20-21 years old That is 4 years of medical care they might not have got and it sure beats paying them to stay home on unemployment and play games

a reply to: stonerwilliam

Completely ignoring what i posted and rambling on again shows how little you bother engaging

originally posted by: stonerwilliam
a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

I was merely suggesting that the youth of today who cannot afford to move out of the basement because of a shortage of affordable housing , jobs and looming automation and millions of job losses on the horizon Get the same level of care as we did 30-40 years ago , not turn them into mad killing machines of the future , but they are there already with the shoot em up games they play 18 hours of the day .

Western governments are botching this badly and the private sector has dropped the ball badly , Government of the UK starts a project sends out tenders and the bill for a hundred miles or so of HS2 goes from 30 to 100 + billion they cannot be trusted to do something on time and on budget . we need the army to take over for the organizational skills and rather than pay 40-70k a year to keep some of them in Jail , You invest in housing jobs and infrastructure Just like China did you pay the youth a bit more than benefits would give them for a period of 2 years then send some to college to do what they want for a 2 year window they are still only 20-21 years old That is 4 years of medical care they might not have got and it sure beats paying them to stay home on unemployment and play games

Look, i agree that some people would profit from that, but not all. Your suggesting a bandage for an open wound, it wont solve anything!
YOU CANT FORCE PEOPLE TO DO WHAT YOU WANT, JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK THEY SHOULD!!!!!!

The young people today, are forced into a life of crime and addiction - the older generations didnt care, they was to busy being selfish, greedy and corrupt.
You want the youth of today to have a future, to stay out of trouble? You can only do that by caring about them, listening to them, you can share your view, but it is THEIR lives, you have to listen to their needs too!!!

Youre saying that goverments are corrupted and useless, i agree, but who the heck is in charge of the army??? the goverment?? really, how is that any different then??

China is a sick rotten country run by greedy end evil retards, if you want to be like them, you should move to china - your gonna love it...

Ask any person in this thread, i think we all agree that there is problems we need to tackle when it comes to the youth
But the solution is NOT to force people into war/war training - there is a reason that most people dont like dictatorships.. We dont want to be forced to do anything we dont want to do - and i will take on arms, and defend myself and my family, when people like you try to force crap on us - it is my right to defend myself, you need to understand this!
We are not there yet, iam aware your just trying to think of solutions - but you need to listen to what people are saying to you. When people like Hitler tries to force their ideas on people, bad # happens, people die!!! DONT force # on people, when they dont want it!!

Also, please tell me again how forcing kids in the USA into the army, where they will go to war, are gonna save the youth in the UK?

originally posted by: stonerwilliam
a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

I was merely suggesting that the youth of today who cannot afford to move out of the basement because of a shortage of affordable housing , jobs and looming automation and millions of job losses on the horizon Get the same level of care as we did 30-40 years ago , not turn them into mad killing machines of the future , but they are there already with the shoot em up games they play 18 hours of the day .

Western governments are botching this badly and the private sector has dropped the ball badly , Government of the UK starts a project sends out tenders and the bill for a hundred miles or so of HS2 goes from 30 to 100 + billion they cannot be trusted to do something on time and on budget . we need the army to take over for the organizational skills and rather than pay 40-70k a year to keep some of them in Jail , You invest in housing jobs and infrastructure Just like China did you pay the youth a bit more than benefits would give them for a period of 2 years then send some to college to do what they want for a 2 year window they are still only 20-21 years old That is 4 years of medical care they might not have got and it sure beats paying them to stay home on unemployment and play games

It doesnt sound like you give a crap about the kids, they just annoy you because their parents didnt give a crap about them either and didnt teach them how to behave in a society. So if they are forced to go to the army, they wont be on the streets and you dont have to look at them anymore, right? All this without getting your hands dirty, and you can just tell people "its for the kids" because you liked it in the army.

The society doesnt care about them either, people are to greedy and to selfish to care - they only solutions society and goverments can think of, is to force kids into stupid programs they dont want to be in, and NONE of all the programs where kids are forced to participate are working, wonder why??

Maybe, you should go talk to those kids you talk about in your town, ask them what they need to reform their lives. I think you would be very suprised to hear the answers, none of them will be "force me to do #" though...


ETA:
One more think - Monkey see, monkey do - do you understand that? What the kids have learned today, they learned from the generations from yesterday... Think about that for a second...

originally posted by: stonerwilliam
I stand corrected then AM it was before my time ,I always thought it was the press speech

Way before my time too, however all of Kennedy's speeches are catalogued including the President and the Press which I encourage you to read in its entirety, it's not nearly what people make it out to be on this site.

It would make for better citizens.

Kids would mature faster and respect their country more.

It's a very harsh lesson..

How the Israelis make all their citzens go through army training.
Man they just dont come back the same.

Play time and play dates are over.

You are a man and women now.

Not like the spoiled pampered man babies having temper tantrums in the streets we see among the protesters.

originally posted by: Bloodworth
It would make for better citizens.

Kids would mature faster and respect their country more.

It's a very harsh lesson..

How the Israelis make all their citzens go through army training.
Man they just dont come back the same.

Play time and play dates are over.

You are a man and women now.

Not like the spoiled pampered man babies having temper tantrums in the streets we see among the protesters.

Ok

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: Bloodworth
It would make for better citizens.

Kids would mature faster and respect their country more.

It's a very harsh lesson..

How the Israelis make all their citzens go through army training.
Man they just dont come back the same.

Play time and play dates are over.

You are a man and women now.

Not like the spoiled pampered man babies having temper tantrums in the streets we see among the protesters.

Ok

Lol

originally posted by: Bloodworth

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: Bloodworth
It would make for better citizens.

Kids would mature faster and respect their country more.

It's a very harsh lesson..

How the Israelis make all their citzens go through army training.
Man they just dont come back the same.

Play time and play dates are over.

You are a man and women now.

Not like the spoiled pampered man babies having temper tantrums in the streets we see among the protesters.

Ok

Lol

Yeah militery service is going to fix all our problem. Going to make us all tough and as hard as nails, and most importantly patriotic.

Great!

a reply to: Jay-morris

And why should we have to do it? Because we are told we have to by powerful people who do not guve a crap if we live or die? Sorry, I completly disagree with you.

FFS.
I have no idea about your background and upbringing.
I was brought up on a council estate in a reasonably large town in North East England.
Things were tough and quite frankly we had # all.
My Dad was a welder and always grafted hard and did his best to provide for his family but things were a struggle.
I'm not complaining; maybe we were short of luxuries, constantly hiding from the rent man but we were always fed and had some great fun.
No-one handed anything on a plate for me.....or anyone else where I was raised.

When I left school the North East and other traditional 'working class' areas of the UK were suffering from the effects of Thatcher and her policies.
There was no work, no money - we literally had # all.

In order to put a roof over my head, feed and clothe myself I had to do anything that came along to earn money.
I needed money because unfortunately we all do simply to survive.

I did anything and some of those jobs I absolutely hated.
I remember one in particular; it was spray painting in a factory in a town about 20 miles away from where I live(d).
I hated every single minute of it.....from the minute I clocked out I dreaded waking up the next morning and having to get ready and go there again.
But I stuck at it for about 6 months because I had to.

No-one was going to pay my bills, no-one was going to give me a house or flat for nothing. Without that wage no-one was going to feed or clothe me.
And why should they?

That's called doing something I don't want to simply because I have to.....there was no other option other than expecting someone else to look after me and do everything for me.
Sounds familiar doesn't it.....that is the mindset of far too many of these children we are turning out.

They expect EVERYTHING handed to them on a plate.

And THAT is the point of the OP.
Not sending school leavers off to fight in some amoral war in a foreign war that has # all to do with us.
We've all had enough of that.

It's about giving them some discipline, a sense of self worth and pride in themselves and their community.
It's about teaching them some REAL life skills and hopefully helping instill a work ethic into them and free them from the absolute bollocks that political correctness has infected them with and that has made them totally incapable of dealing with real life problems and experiences.

And we've made that perfectly clear several times in this thread but it seems some people just plain ignore what has been written because it doesn't fit in with the point they are trying to make.

Well, for starters, waking up and just not taking this sh#t anymore. For people to say no. Even illegal invasions, people will be involved, for their country. They eill do horrors, for their country, they will come back and have a f#cked up life, for their country, while certain people get rich from wars, invasions, being involved in certain invasions. When are people going to wake up!

In principal I agree with all of what you have just said....but this thread isn't about that, as has been said time and time again but people just ignore that.

When people are over patriotic,.....

No-one said anything about being 'over patriotric'.....just a bit of national pride.
Pride in our heritage and culture.
What is wrong with it?

I want the best for this planet, as the human race, not my country. For someone who has been to many places outside of my country, I know this is more important than my country.

You think you are the only one who has travelled?

If we are going to survive, it's going to have to be us, as the human race, not countries still dealing in tribal warfare.

Possibly so.
But I've always found it prudent and best to sort and solve one's own problems before meddling in others.