Concerns about China related information

The first thread about the covid-19 was 5th january.
ATS thread

bbc.com had an article about it 3rd january.
BBC article

The first corona virus update was post 23rd january. At this point, there were "footages" and "leaks" popping all around diverse social media (mostly WeChan but also twitter) that were trying to enforce the idea that the outbreak was worse than what CCP was then claiming (ie. their numbers were underrated).
Alternatively, while speculation about unknown cases of pneumonia in China were identified in early december, the "South China Morning Post" posted 13th march an article about chinese gouvernment data pointing to potential patient-0 as early as 17th november.
First corona virus update
South China Morning Post article
Repost from thegardian.com

The issue is about the two sides of the story that is pushed by China itself. First, we get at the early stages videos posted on social media that weirdly stopped after about 3 weeks. All these leaks were reinforcing the idea that the virus was deadlier than what CCP claimed. They were also used to explain the quarantine of Wuhan and the Hubei province.
Now that it evolved into a pandemy and numbers from other countries are available, an alternative media posts that patient-0 could be as far as 17th november. That alone, not only enforces the idea that the number of infected individuals was underrated worldwide, but also lower the CFR.

This creates incertitudes between the infection rate, the severity of the disease and the official numbers, not only those from China, but from any country. Above all, none of them have credibility. It looks like a dead end, which seems fishy.

How does Chinas communist "hide stuff cuz it looks bad" policies affect those of say, Italy? You saying western countries are hiding stats?

I would submit that we're dealing with a communist govenment and that the creators of the videos / information may have been labeled and rounded up. Strike that, probably - recall at least one video of one of the creators with officials banging on his door. Further, a personal opinion is the the numbers and reports from the CCP are not trustworthy whatsoever.

I believe the November date far more than the more official December dating for no reason other than my gut feeling - there were rumors end of November about something going on.

For what it's worth, from casual conversations in the Ann Arbor area, towards Thanksgiving and start of December a lot of us were sick with something that lasted far longer than a normal cold or flu with a fever and lung issues. We had it at work where we have a lot of contact with the student population.

I don't think that we're getting accurate, truthful information from anywhere. Anywhere at all!

The possibilities are:

>they're simply lying to us because they are scared to admit the truth because it's too ugly and scary and they don't want to feed the chaos.
>they just all screwed this up so badly that there's no excuse and we'd all be really pissed if we knew.
>it's being used as a cover to manipulate the markets and induce a controlled black swan events.
>it's being use used as a tool to impose social and political control over the masses.

I suspect that the reality is a combination of all of the above.

I think most stats from China should be discounted.

We have to look at Italy, South Korea and Singapore, Hong Kong.

a reply to: IgnorantGod

China has always hidden stats. Only takes a simple search on the topic.

Provincial debts, hidden. National debts, hidden. Harvesting organs, imprisoned millions for religious beliefs, xenophobia. .pure racism...search you will find a greater list.

Yeah...China is good guys.


Mg

a reply to: lakenheath24

You saying western countries are hiding stats?

No, basically I'm saying that their numbers could be inaccurate due to the possibility that this virus was in nature in november, and thus has spread before the quarantine of Wuhan (if we are to believe China's alternative media). I'm pointing towards the multiple inconsistencies tied to chinese data.

a reply to: kosmicjack

The problem is that patient-0 is China related and the begining of the outbreak is relevant to every country. If patient-0 is really in mid-november, we can safely assume that the virus has spread worldwide even before it was officially announced as a new virus.

This would support the idea that the severity of the disease is really mild (to the point to go unnoticed for a month) and that most countries are over-dramatizing the pandemy.

Ok gotcha...thats why peeps think that the peak is two months away.

a reply to: IgnorantGod

originally posted by: IgnorantGod
a reply to: kosmicjack

The problem is that patient-0 is China related and the begining of the outbreak is relevant to every country. If patient-0 is really in mid-november, we can safely assume that the virus has spread worldwide even before it was officially announced as a new virus.

This would support the idea that the severity of the disease is really mild (to the point to go unnoticed for a month) and that most countries are over-dramatizing the pandemy.

Nice try.

MAYBE patient zero was November 17, 2019.

So no facts at all ..just a MAYBE.



MG

I'm concerned with the coronavirus data from everywhere. Everyone likes to say the Coronavirus is so dangerous because it is has a kill rate of 7%, but that's only if you use the data they say is ok to calculate that rate. Don't start talking about unreported cases and how that would dramatically reduce the death rate. Gotta keep that fear going.

Estimated Range of Annual Burden of Flu in the U.S. since 2010. ... CDC estimates that influenza has resulted in between 9 million – 45 million illnesses, between 140,000 – 810,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 – 61,000 deaths annually since 2010.

CDC

Imagine if we had to calculate the death rate of the flu, like we currently do with Coronavirus. If we did, I could use the most reported hospitalizations in a year with the least amount of reported deaths in a year and the flu would have a mortality rate of 1.5%. If I took an average of both numbers, the flu would have a mortality rate of 7.7%.

The numbers of deaths simply don't warrant the response we are witnessing... there is something else going on. For anyone with even rudimentary grasp of stats, it is clear that the numbers we are being told do not justify the response.

1) It is propaganda designed to hurt world markets. The virus itself is real, but it is being propagandized to cause fear.

or

2) There is something about the virus that is not being told to the public. That is the only reason I can think governments would be shutting down over the numbers that have been reported thus far. Maybe the highest levels know it is an accidental or purposeful release of a bioweapon.

originally posted by: Edumakated
The numbers of deaths simply don't warrant the response we are witnessing... there is something else going on. For anyone with even rudimentary grasp of stats, it is clear that the numbers we are being told do not justify the response.

1) It is propaganda designed to hurt world markets. The virus itself is real, but it is being propagandized to cause fear.

or

2) There is something about the virus that is not being told to the public. That is the only reason I can think governments would be shutting down over the numbers that have been reported thus far. Maybe the highest levels know it is an accidental or purposeful release of a bioweapon.

Please stop using 'propganda' in place of pure, known and expected dissinformation from China.

I know, we know, they know...it's all lies....has been for decades. Especially from market reporting, human trafficking and imprisonment (that is just scraping the surface) Just liars....

Start focusing on China. We are here today because of China.

Mg

a reply to: missed_gear

Frankly, I'm leaning towards the possibility that patient-0 was ealier than november.

a reply to: IgnorantGod

I do think it is widespread. Most likely since mid January in U.S.

I'm more afraid of what people are doing in response to this virus than the virus itself. I've come to the conclusion that the media found something newsworthy in the story about Wuhan back in January. After that, the story took a life of its own. It got peoples attention and a lot of them freaked. The severity of an illness that most of us don't give a thought to has now snowballed to the point where governments were starting to believe this is a crisis. I still don't think it's warranted.

People get sick. They stay home from work or they pass it on. That's life. We really have come to the point where the whiners have a louder voice than the more practical among us.

Let's hope we wake up as a society soon and get back to business.

The people who leaked non-official information from China are either in a concentration camp or dead. Questioning the official line is not tolerated in the People's Republic. Especially not if damages the international image of the Party.

I don't think we're getting accurate information from other sources either. But even a typical profit-motivated, politically-biased western news source is infinitely more reliable than the Chinese Communist Party and their mouthpieces.

a reply to: Ohanka

I have yet to see any evidences that it is the case (leakers being chain up or dead). As for western news, I highly doubt they are more reliable than China, on any subjects. Here in Quebec/Canada, its been nearly a week since the sanitary emergency state has been declared. They have even hint about imprisoning people if they don't respect the quarantine measures. It became crazy here, I wouldn't have expected to see such measures outside a despotist/communist/totalitarian regime. And everyone welcome these measures because it makes them feel better.

Hear me out on this, it is in these kind of events that we get to see the true nature of the human species. Oh that we love to brag about our intelligence, yet it only needs a little culture of fear to make the survival instinct full retard and eroding any mental structure we build upon experiences and reason.