Italy 27,930 known infected and 2,158 Dead. A 7.7% Death rate.

Something is certainly off here. It's easy to see if you're not an idiot. The government would not react the way it is if this wasn't something from a lab.

Sorry. It just doesn't cut the mustard. The chinese most likely admitted they #ed up behind closed doors and governments are keeping a narrative to not induce any more panic than the outbreak itself. There's no way in hell whole countries shut down from a different type of flu. We're probably extremely lucky this isn't something more crazy, and we'll probably not know just how lucky we are until 50 years from now when documents come to light.

originally posted by: Flesh699
Something is certainly off here. It's easy to see if you're not an idiot. The government would not react the way it is if this wasn't something from a lab.

Sorry. It just doesn't cut the mustard. The chinese most likely admitted they #ed up behind closed doors and governments are keeping a narrative to not induce any more panic than the outbreak itself. There's no way in hell whole countries shut down from a different type of flu. We're probably extremely lucky this isn't something more crazy, and we'll probably not know just how lucky we are until 50 years from now when documents come to light.

Yes it was. Even Chinese researchers figured this out but the CCP shut down their research paper.

Did coronavirus originate in Chinese government laboratory? Chinese Scientists believe "it did."

Then there is the response from China which included.

...
Xi didn’t actually admit that the coronavirus now devastating large swaths of China had escaped from one of the country’s bioresearch labs. But the very next day, evidence emerged suggesting that this is exactly what happened, as the Chinese Ministry of Science and Technology released a new directive titled: “Instructions on strengthening biosecurity management in microbiology labs that handle advanced viruses like the novel coronavirus.”
...

Don’t buy China’s story: The coronavirus may have leaked from a lab

Why would they need to increase "biosecurity management in microbiology labs that handle advanced viruses like the novel coronavirus"?

And these communist aholes still had the gall to claim to the world that it was the U.S. military whom released the virus in Wuhan...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: Xtrozero

BTW, i just heard a doctor on Fox News state that Influenza has roughly a 0.1 infection rate, and that COVID-19 has a 2-3 infection rate. COVID-19 is 10 times more infectious than influenza. So my numbers were wrong.

I'm not sure any number is right just yet...They are all over the board...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: Xtrozero

BTW, i just heard a doctor on Fox News state that Influenza has roughly a 0.1 infection rate, and that COVID-19 has a 2-3 infection rate. COVID-19 is 10 times more infectious than influenza. So my numbers were wrong.

Your numbers aren't wrong, per se, it's just using known cases.

I think it was last week sometime when Fauci said the mortality rate will likely be 10x more than seasonal flu, so 1%.

That said, the mortality rates are different all over: 7% in Italy, 1.6 in the US, 2.2 in France, etc, but as of this moment the global average is 4.0 (using numbers from Worldometers).

When the final numbers are known, which may not happen until next year, it might be closer to 1%. Who knows.

a reply to: Liquesence

According to WHO the mortality rate is about 3.4%

But as I have explained several times it depends on the strain you catch. The ancestral (S) strain has the 3.4% death rate, but the mutated (L) strain is much more virulent and contagious.

We also know that this virus has around it the protein signatures of 3 different diseases SARS, HIV, and Ebola? ( I am not sure about Ebola as my source from Cuba says that the third one was Tuberculosis. Yes there are several cases occurring in Cuba as well, and btw I won't be giving my source from Cuba)

So if your skin absorbs a spike of the protein for HIV, your body thinks you have HIV and will produce the response that most likely would try to combat HIV, but that is not the virus you actually have. Same thing will happen if your skin/cell absorbs one of the other spikes with a different protein signature.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

According to WHO the mortality rate is about 3.4%

Yeah, I remember that was also the rate I heard a couple of weeks ago, and when I calculated it at that point based upon the numbers at the time, it was accurate.

What I calculated above was using the numbers from Worldometer as of March 17, 6p EST, since it was the most accessible.

But yeah, we're on the same page, there are just so many unknowns and things are constantly changing.

a reply to: Liquesence

It will be interesting to look back in hindsight, and identify what made coronavirus more deadly in some people and regions, than in others.

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Liquesence

It will be interesting to look back in hindsight, and identify what made coronavirus more deadly in some people and regions, than in others.

The strain caught in that region. If your region gets the ancestral (S) strain the death rate is around 3.4%. If your region gets the mutated (L) strain it is much more virulent and contagious than the ancestral strain. Your health also plays an important factor on the % you fall in. People with respiratory problems, such as asthma, heart disease, lung disease, diabetes, or people whom have a lowered immune system due to some illness, or chronic syndrome have a much higher mortality rate.

a reply to: carewemust

It went wrong right at the beginning.

It's believed this is where the Italian coronavirus outbreak began on Feb. 18, when a 38-year old athletic male with breathing problems was repeatedly turned away from his doctor's office and the local hospital without being tested. He unknowingly spread COVID-19 to dozens of people over several days. 

Do that a few times in a hospital...

According to a hospital administrator in the area, Dr. Lorenzo Casani,  "We know that Patient 1 went in and out at least three or four times from the emergency room, so he spread the virus to other patients and also to the health-care workers."

And you are quickly looking at a code black situation.

"So there will be a moment that an anesthesiologist will have to take off the respirator from this 75-year-old guy and give it to the 20-year-old. And this will be a horrible choice for the doctors, but obviously necessary."

Read the full story here.

“Many Italians in Northern Italy have sold their leather goods and textiles companies to China. Italy then allowed 100,000 Chinese workers from Wuhan and Wenzhou to move to Italy to work in these factories, with direct flights between Wuhan and Northern Italy. This continued post outbreak, so is it mere coincidence that Northern Italy is now Europe’s hotspot for Corona Virus?

a reply to: carewemust

Great question. I have been asking that myself.

Neighboring countries aren't even close.

a reply to: Flesh699

1 - do you believe that the 1919 " spannish flu " was bio-engineered ?

2 - at what point in the timeline of the 1919 // 1921 pandemic - do you believe modern govts would impliment emergency measures ?

3 - why does its alledged " bio-engineered " status have any impact on how it should be addressed ????

originally posted by: D.Wolf
a reply to: carewemust

It went wrong right at the beginning.

It's believed this is where the Italian coronavirus outbreak began on Feb. 18, when a 38-year old athletic male with breathing problems was repeatedly turned away from his doctor's office and the local hospital without being tested. He unknowingly spread COVID-19 to dozens of people over several days. 

Do that a few times in a hospital...

According to a hospital administrator in the area, Dr. Lorenzo Casani,  "We know that Patient 1 went in and out at least three or four times from the emergency room, so he spread the virus to other patients and also to the health-care workers."

And you are quickly looking at a code black situation.

"So there will be a moment that an anesthesiologist will have to take off the respirator from this 75-year-old guy and give it to the 20-year-old. And this will be a horrible choice for the doctors, but obviously necessary."

Read the full story here.

Considering how people in the medical field can often look down and stigmatize a patient for not being as woke as they are this is very believable.

Not sure whether this has been mentioned in this thread or not, but the high mortality rate for Covid-19 in Italy is due to Italy having one of the Highest elderly populations in the world.

And as we know, Covid-19 hits the elderly and those with underlying health conditions the hardest.

So yes, while the death rate is high, I believe it so only due to their population.

I still don’t think it’s anything to panic about, contrary to what the mass media is trying to scare us with.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

In that last link i gave U.S. figures are 5,702 sick/infected people and 94 dead. Which for now is a 1.64% dead rate. These figures in the U.S. are much lower thanks to President Trump banning flights from China early on when the left-wing media was downplaying this and they alongside left-wing leaders, and the liberal media claimed President Trump put the travel ban because "he is a racist..."

This really happened? I browse CNN (and Fox) everyday, religiously. I read the emo, overblown left propaganda and the reactionary, defensive right propaganda for every major attraction since the 2016 election when CNN had Trump at around a quarter percent odds of winning the Presidential election a week before election day in November.

I must've missed the articles downplaying early coronavirus and Trump being racist against the Chinese by trying to halt the spread of coronavirus early. Got any old links you can share? The content would be less than 2 months old.

a reply to: noonebutme

Meanwhile it is true that the elderly and people with underlying health conditions are at a much higher risk of dying from the SARS-CoV-2(COVID-19) it is also true that in nations like China, and Iran, many young people have not only become infected but have died even without underlying health conditions.

The Chinese doctor whom warned the world about this was a young person and he and his colleague died from the virus.

I remember seeing a chart, from China so it's not completely reliable, in which they explain the age of the people whom have died, and as I remember young people had died at almost the same amount as elderly.

Going to try to find it. But again, the Chinese government has been lying from the start and they have a lot more infected and lot more deaths. The Chinese are running their crematoriums 24/7 and most of them are reporting having to burn 100-300 bodies every day for at least 17 days. (I am gathering information to post a thread showing the claims from the CCP as to their numbers of infected, and what crematoriums in China are reporting. The Chinese government even had to use their mobile crematoriums. Wuhan supposedly has around 49 crematoriums. (I will explain in the thread I am preparing where these numbers come from.)

a reply to: FlyingSquirrel

...
It’s a unique set of characteristics showing that President Trump understood early the need for decisive measures such as travel restrictions on China, which he imposed in January.

Yet for that sensible decision — in defiance of the World Health Organization — he was criticized by Democrats such as Joe Biden as xenophobic, and by China as racist.
...

Criticisms of Trump’s coronavirus response are sickening: Devine

Joe Biden himself admitted that he wouldn't have implemented a travel ban from China. This would mean that under old Joe the "forgetful" we would have a lot more cases of people infected in the U.S.

BTW, Old Bernie Sanders the, "lying communist", also criticized President Trump's travel ban from China and called him either xenophobic or racist.



Biden Insists On Opposing Coronavirus Travel Ban Despite The Advice of Experts

BTW, it's kind of strange that you haven't seen/heard this on Fox News since it has been reported several times, including the claims by many in the left about the travel ban to China, and calling the virus "Wuhan virus/foreign virus", as xenophobic/racist for President Trump deciding to do this.

Let's not forget.

...
House and Senate Democrats are responding to the coronavirus outbreak in the United States by supporting measures to effectively strip President Trump of his authority to impose travel bans to protect American citizens.

While Trump has implemented travel bans on China and Iran — two of the most coronavirus-affected nations in the world — House Democrats are looking to roll back the president’s authority to enact travel bans from regions of the world.

The “No Ban Act,” introduced by Rep. Judy Chu (D-CA) and co-sponsored by 219 House Democrats, would have prevented Trump from immediately implementing a travel ban on China once the outbreak of the coronavirus spread past its origins of Wuhan.

Instead, the No Ban Act would have allowed travelers from Wuhan to continue to arrive in the U.S. while the president received guidance from Congress.

“This bill imposes limitations on the President’s authority to suspend or restrict aliens from entering the United States and terminates certain presidential actions implementing such restrictions,” a summary of the legislation reads.
...

Democrat Response to Coronavirus: End Trump’s Travel Bans on China, Iran

So there you have it. Under "Democrats/socialists" they would not have implemented the travel bans from China and iran, and would have allowed all travelers to come into the U.S. without any restrictions...

according to this article - all but TWO deaths attributed to COVID 19 had co-morbidity (other conditions that contributed to death)

translate.google.com...://www.agenzianova.com/a/5e6bcf1da7fb e3.23491954/2851060/2020-03-13/coronavirus-iss-in-italia-i-decessi-accertati-finora-per-causa-del-covid-19-sono-solo-due

Clearly, we cannot trust numbers from China, but Italy is another story. Only 2 deaths that weren't already sick?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse
I have had no problem with the travel bans, I found his initial messaging to be irresponsible though..you might agree?

No matter who is charge, there will always be second guessing.

Lets just put that stuff aside and pray this does not get as bad as it could.