368 Deaths in Italy in the Last 24 Hours...

475 new deaths today (3-18-20)...

Still going the wrong direction

www.2oceansvibe.com...

240 have died from the flu since January...

A walk through a hallway of a Milan hospital....

originally posted by: vonclod

“The continuous cuts—to care and to research—are obviously a problem right now,” Casani says. “We were not prepared. We do not have enough doctors for the people. We do not have an organized plan for pandemics.”

time.com...

Could it be true that Italy cut off treatment to the elderly due to a lack of medical supplies and staffing? I bet most of these deaths are older patients.

Bingo. We have a winner...

The median age of death in Italy is 81...

So, this is a perfectly legitimate and rational explanation for the Italy anomaly - especially why it will simply not be replicated here in the USA, or most other countries with decent healthcare systems. It is also an excellent argument against socialized healthcare.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: vonclod

“The continuous cuts—to care and to research—are obviously a problem right now,” Casani says. “We were not prepared. We do not have enough doctors for the people. We do not have an organized plan for pandemics.”

time.com...

Could it be true that Italy cut off treatment to the elderly due to a lack of medical supplies and staffing? I bet most of these deaths are older patients.

Bingo. We have a winner...

The median age of death in Italy is 81...

So, this is a perfectly legitimate and rational explanation for the Italy anomaly - especially why it will simply not be replicated here in the USA, or most other countries with decent healthcare systems. It is also an excellent argument against socialized healthcare.

USA has 67,000,000 over the age of 60...

Italy has 60,000,000 people total.

Your arguement isn't even close to justified...

originally posted by: YouAreLiedTo
USA has 67,000,000 over the age of 60...

Italy has 60,000,000 people total.

Your arguement isn't even close to justified...

What argument? That Italy's woefully underfunded socialized medical system (extremely typical of socialized systems, due to their very nature) is causing them to have to perform war-time type triage decisions, basically just leaving people aside to die because they have no resources to treat them?

That has nothing to do with the simple number of people in the high risk category.

I've also stated that somehow, this thing got loose and ran rampant in their highest risk category communities. A perfect storm so to speak.

originally posted by: YouAreLiedTo

originally posted by: Fallingdown
Hopefully this is the peak we’ve been looking for and there will be a decline in new cases .

Just like China and South Korea .

They had 3500 new cases yesterday alone...

Far from the peak...

The main difference is China took this seriously and (mostly) locked down.

Italy failed to respond in time and.. well.. people locally in the US are acting like idiots and worse acting like they are on vacation. There were soccer games being played in the athletic field across the street from my house.

How largely this impacts your area will depend solely on your communities response..

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: YouAreLiedTo
USA has 67,000,000 over the age of 60...

Italy has 60,000,000 people total.

Your arguement isn't even close to justified...

What argument? That Italy's woefully underfunded socialized medical system (extremely typical of socialized systems, due to their very nature) is causing them to have to perform war-time type triage decisions, basically just leaving people aside to die because they have no resources to treat them?

That has nothing to do with the simple number of people in the high risk category.

I've also stated that somehow, this thing got loose and ran rampant in their highest risk category communities. A perfect storm so to speak.

Italy has more doctors and more beds per capita than the USA.

It was ranked second in the world a few years ago.

Your ignorance is showing...

a reply to: YouAreLiedTo

I just don't understand how people can still buy into the crap that people post here trying to downplay this. This isn't the flu, there isn't some huge democratic / liberal media hoax going on here people..

This doesn't mean everyone should panic, but to try to assume our lives should go on as normal and try to make an argument using any data right now is just plain false.

I've been on this site for ages, and when I started coming here the term 'deny ignorance' was something that stuck with me. I also like to see people debate here so you can keep an open mind. I lean left, but I like coming here to sort out some truth from the right and balance my thinking.

That being said the past few years on this site have just flat turned downhill. If I didn't know any better there are many paid shills here trying to spread misinformation to paralyze the public. This isn't what this website used to stand for, but I'm quite shocked people can still post completely false threads and not have them put into the hoax bin right away.

These are the exact same type of videos that came out of China. I think the majority of people on this site are taking this very seriously, but it is still disappointing to see some of the banter and distractions here that get people to question the severity of what we are facing.

Why is Italy totaly unique?
only place in the world with deaths like this?
did they Drop to many viruse's?
are they trying to beat China?
and look at how big china is!

I honestly don't know, but it's so bad they had to call in the military for body removal

They aren't just running out of hospital beds... They are running out of cemetery...

Please stay inside and help keep your community safe.

originally posted by: YouAreLiedTo
Italy has more doctors and more beds per capita than the USA.

It was ranked second in the world a few years ago.

Your ignorance is showing...

My ignorance?

I haven't had time to dig up the evidence to dismiss your inane and factually incorrect argument, but thankfully, just discovered someone else already did.

Also, they have recently gotten into bed - all in - with China, which explains a lot as well wrt China sending them help. They have hundreds of thousands of legal and illegal) chinese immigrants, and even stupidly - in February - instituted 'Hug a Chinese' day.

Italy is bad... it got loose in their elderly community, and now their socialized system is overwhelmed, and their elderly community is now paying the price for their arrogance.