How long you think WW2 will last if it started as a space battle?

How long you think WW2 will last if it started as a space battle?

Assuming that none of the nation reached Mars yet, but advance enough to have spacecrafts flying over the world. Having Space technology doesn't equate to having Satellite tech or even weapons like Nukes. Just the start of space technology being like the V2 rockets, everything is unguided and patrols still relying on scout planes as not everything is computerized. Assume, we are not high tech enough to fly to other planets or even live on the moon. The Space tech is very early, only enough to protect the planet from asteroids or small scale Alien invasion coming from other planets.

They say "you can't win the war without land battles." Assuming something like we win all land battles but, Nazi Germany wins the space war. What about the opposite?

How long do you think it would last? What do you think the survivors in space carriers is going to do? Small question with big answers. Make prediction if you have to just by thinking about it.

Are you a time traveler?..

originally posted by: makemap
How long you think WW2 will last if it started as a space battle?

Nazis in space? How would that have worked and how would the war have started in space? Instead of Germany invading Poland, they invaded Poland's space station?

Pretty short...

They didn’t have spacecraft.

The Nazis would have never won the space war. The Soviets genetically altered and trained chimpanzees to infiltrate space ships and tear everyone inside apart. Now if your talking about the space war of WW1, thats a whole other story.

originally posted by: whyamIhere
Pretty short...

They didn’t have spacecraft.

Mussolini trained Italy's troops to leap higher than the moon... which, in hindsight, was helped greatly by the fact that the moon cannot leap at all.

originally posted by: clay2 baraka
Are you a time traveler?..

Since time is fluid he's floating a hypothetical.

a reply to: makemap
How much oxygen do they have?

With the level of advancement you are suggesting I think it would be poor planning to start in space.

originally posted by: makemap
How long you think WW2 will last if it started as a space battle?

Assuming that none of the nation reached Mars yet, but advance enough to have spacecrafts flying over the world. Having Space technology doesn't equate to having Satellite tech or even weapons like Nukes.

Not very long if they started using nukes attached to rockets...hence why the cold war and our continued skirting with imminent annihilation at the push of a button.

a reply to: makemap

its plausible there could have been a space based world war2. Lets say for instance that Germany did not join Russia in invading Poland. Instead, they agreed recognize poland as an ally, and form a non-aggression pact with them in exchange for Danzig, and the former German areas that poland owned. By doing so, Poland could focus all its resources against Russia, and germany would have gotten the territories without war. If this was the case, GB and France would not have declared war, and as a result, Germany could have continued to build economy and military. As a result, instead of a war starting in 1939, they could have not evolved into war until much later. Since Russia and Germany had a Non-aggression pact, and were trade partners, and they both had Rocket engineers, Germany could have advanced into the space contest by 1945 instead of the USA taking those men to form NASA. Which means Germany would have most likely had the first satellite, and space mission. Jump ahead to the 1970's The germans could have a space station, space based assets, which they could very well have joint operations with Russia. In this scenario, German/Russian Alliance could dominate space, which if WW2 erupted then, it would be nuclear. You could see IBCM's destroying much of the USA as well as Europe. Utlimately though the German/Russian edge in space would assist with eventually defeating and American/Western Europe Alliance.

Little is known, but there had been talks to bring Russia into the AXIS agreement with Japan. If that had happened, Germany could have concentrated on UK, taking UK, while Russia took Scandinavia, Then Russia could have pushed into Central Asia, as Japan pushed West, and Germany pushed into Africa. Eventually you could see Germany owning all of Africa, Turkey Allied to Germany, Russia, Japan controlling the Middle East. Russia in India, and Japan controlling the entire Pacific minus American assests. If Japan hadn't taken philipines and attacked Pearl Harbor, America would have been forced to stay Neutral while New Zealand and Australia fell to the Japanese. By the 1950's you would see 3 dominant Empires, and several vassal nations all aligned controlling everything except North and South America. They could have maintained peace with the USA, and eventually a space race would have started that the USA, closed off from trade relations and having limited economic growth, would be alot less strong then when it emerged from WW2 as the sole manufacturing nation left in the world. If UK collapsed, You could see Canada joining the USA forming a larger nation, and a American pact formed similar to NATO protecting South America and Central America as vassals to the USA. That said, if a unified Germany, Russian, Japan who controlled the rest of the world didn't trade with them, you'd have alot more advancement in Germany and Russia. Keep in mind, Communism struggled with Economic growth, and Germany struggled with Resources. That said Russia would have been the trade partner to both Germany and Japan, and thus its economy would have grown feeding resources to both as they built their industries and those industries shared knowledge with Russia growing their economy. Thus, a WW2 that didn't happen with an Allied victory, would have resulted in a later eventual WW3 that very well could have been space based had Germany, Japan, and Russia managed not to kill each other.

Camain

originally posted by: makemap
How long you think WW2 will last if it started as a space battle?

Could you please restart the narrative!

a reply to: makemap

If you could really consider this worthy of the history forum, then...

Damnit makemap, you actually posted something that's making me think.



I think that we really had the technology to begin with. We just didn't make it or think it were practical. It would have been expensive as hell and it might have delayed the beginning of the war by a couple of years. Once we understood
how the rocket and engine worked, albeit not at the same time, obviously... we could have used that together along with air tight and pressurized craft to get it up there. But there is a severe downside with little gain.

I see it something like:

Axis and Allies having perhaps a 1/3 of their aircraft space worthy due to cost. You might even have 1 or 2 Spacecraft Carriers and maybe even a couple of torpedo carrying Supramarines.

Axis (such a cool word - why didn't we name ourselves Axis) would have bombed the hell out of England until none were left. With a little math, Space Bombs would have been far easier to pinpoint, unlike the unguided V1&2 Rockets that devastated England. This meaning that much of the military forces would have been destroyed before they even had a chance to deploy. Their Space Force would have been the only thing left to fight back.

Japan in kind, would have obliterated Hawaii and all the surrounding islands including the Philippians. China would have been destroyed as well.

Considering that Axis are taking out everyone but themselves, they'll have already included the US and any territories that weren't theirs to begin with. Buildings would be a thing of the past for everyone, including all Axis territories. People on earth would live in the fields because being anywhere else would be a target. Forests would be burned to a crisp.

So the only thing left are the Space Fleets. It would probably boil down to who had the most craft with bonuses applied from the skillful. Since Axis struck first, they would likely have the advantage. If there were anyone left on earth, we'd probably be Nazis because Germany would have hit Japan once their usefulness came to an end.

Still, you would have to consider Germany being struck by Japan first. In that case, we would be all teched out.

So the answer is - Whoever has the advantage.

The bad

- Expensive. All counties would go bankrupt and there wouldn't be a war.
- Couldn't mine enough minerals in time to build a few major craft.
- The few survivors, and I do mean few, would live in a post apocalyptic iron-age world, had the war taken place.

Take your pick. Imagination or reality. That's pretty much what it comes to.

a reply to: camain

Good stuff.


Though, if you really think about it, wouldn't Germany have just shot off into the stars in search of origins? They got into 'witchcraft' early in their uprising. They had a few hotties talking to 'beings' from other star systems. It all got shut down at some point but it's believed it was confiscated and part of Himmler's inner cult.

They'd probably be heading toward the Taurus constellation still, as we speak.

a reply to: makemap

Whoever owns the moon owns the high ground. Mass drivers toss country-killers at random cities throughout Europe until all capitulate to the new Lunar Empire.

America never even enters the war. It's over in the west before they could put their first volunteers in place. The US begins supplying the loonies with all the ground-based trade stuffs necessary to sustain the Lunar Empire.

Maybe the Chinese and Russian peoples do their revolution or not -- it depends on who led the loonies. If It was Germany, the Russians get pounded into submission along with the rest of Europe. If the Brits take the moon, Churchill drops a blue phone box on Lenin and Stalin while they picnic in the Caucasus'. Everyone gets short skirts and Aston Martins.

The east is a wildcard. Again, who leads matters. Churchill feels like a company man, so I'm betting he gets involved to seal up the colonies. If the USSR comes out on top they provide assistance to their comrade-brothers in China and develop a similar partnership as the Lunars / Americans. Communism wins.

Honestly, there are innumerable stories one could tell. These were just off the top of my head and would obviously be subject to revision after doing actual research (and not just pulling random "facts" and impressions out of my axe).

a reply to: StallionDuck

You'd be super fun at (D&D) parties.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: StallionDuck

You'd be super fun at (D&D) parties.

I like to DM a few myself They're just so far and few in between these days.

a reply to: StallionDuck

If hitler avoided war, then yes Fascism is a powerful form of government. They could have had a moon and mars colony by now, and with some major effort looking for extra solar exploration. I could see a Peaceful Fascist state on the moon, mars, the asteroids. That said, fascism is almost never peaceful, you need an enemy to hold the population in check, so that they endure the virtual dictatorship. See NK as an example. The only difference is Germany had the Nuclear and Rocket scientists in 1930's-40's, then those people went to Russia and USA to form those space agencies. If German Manufacturing wouldn't have been devastate by Russian and Allied bombing, then they would be a economic powerhouse in 1950's-80's and therefore could have had the economic might, and the will power to establish a space empire, utilizing that empire to expand. Imagine an entire planet of Nazi's on Mar's by 2050. Colonies across the solar system by 2100, and eventually an anti-thetical reverse star trek universe, much like the Sol Empire in Enterprise.

Camain

a reply to: camain

Fascism needs a goal. Creating that intrasolar empire is a goal large enough to take the place of an external enemy for hundreds of years. It might even make the population wealthy too. There is really nothing to prevent a fascist state that takes the Earth, the Moon, Mars, and the asteroid belt shower its people(s) in the rewards of a "glorious expansion." It's not like the party elite couldn't carve out even greater rewards for themselves.

That same drive and sense of shared glory would put billions of volunteers on generation colony ships by the late 90s.

Kinda makes me sick just thinking about it.

a reply to: 0zzymand0s

I don't believe in Generation Star Ships. The problem is that the amount of supplies you would have to take, makes it almost impossible, now granted, you could build a ship, launch it, then every year thereafter shoot off supplies that are going slightly faster than the first. Each ship though would have to have more and more space for fuel and less and less space for supplies. The reason being is that it would have to accelerate more to catch up to the first.

Think of it this way. Colony ship launches. One year later, Resupply one launches. It will take almost 2 years to meet Colony, meanwhile, Resupply2 launches, it will take 4 years, unless propulsion advances, you will always have a problem with supplies. Just imagine having to maintain atmosphere for 70-150 years on that ship. Not to mention parts. With current tech, its just not possible. now had the Germans been dumping money since 1940's we may be further ahead, and yes we may be able to do it. depends on whats invented in the next 20-30 years i guess. I think they would be content with our solar system, until we could make a trip within a couple years to another. at which point you'd be looking at the Human Empire modeled after the Romulans or Cardasians.

Camain

a reply to: camain

God damnit, I said there would be no nukes and possibly satellites. Have you not seen WW2 tech? They are mechanical, no computers. What I'm saying is those spacecrafts will be mechanical in a sense with no computers just like steampunk fashion. You have to remember that there was a UN, and that group was called League of Nations. Now imagine every country in the league has space technology at start and the wars starts happening. Plus there paratroopers will probably drop from space.

Imagine german army dropping Tiger tanks via mechanical spacecrafts as example. Having space dominance doesn't win you Earth if you don't have resource s to build bombs. That why I said, "you can't win the war without land battles". You need to capture terroritories to build bombs and more weapons. Also I said the tech isn't strong enough to get to colonize the moon yet. Apart from V2 rockets, bombs are not that strong to level cities in one hit back then. China would not be that low tech either. China had bought tanks and ships from other nations before the war started. Imagine China buying spacecrafts.