Sin for a lifetime and repent before I die. Heaven or Hell here I come?

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posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 07:54 AM
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It seems odd to me. Can it actually work. Can I sin for a lifetime and on my dying deathbed sincerely ask for forgiveness from Christ and be saved believing he is my saviour? Will I go to heaven?

Is this a protestant view, do catholics believe this too? What about Mormons ...I guess this doesn't pertain to Jews does it?

I don't know about this. Can you please 'skewl' me?




posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 08:50 AM
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This is a part of Christianity that I will never, ever understand and I don't agree with what so ever...spend a life time killing, raping, being a terrible person....repent on your death bed....and you end up in the same place with someone that has been faithful and good their whole life, doing the best they can!? Uh-hu....not for me! It's also another reason I find it so damn terrible to hear some Christians damning anyone else...how they know they won't repent on their death bed and be fine!
Also....don't give me the "but you can't just repent, it has to be in your heart" garbage....it's not right in my opinion, and yes, I know you will say that "my" opinion doesn't matter, only god's...but that is only "your" opinion!


JAK

posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 08:56 AM
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Yup. That's exactly how Christianity works. You got it banged to rights.

Obviously you have seen the flaw in an omnipotent God's plan. Wow, wish I was that smart.

And might I say what a surprise it is to see you popping up on a Christian bashing thread Lady V.

Jack



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 09:01 AM
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Well, this doesn't have to be a Christian bashing thread unless you make it one now does it.

This is truly one of the most mysterious things about Christianity. The Chatolic church used to sell pennances didn't they? So you could send your loved ones to heaven instead of them suffering in purgator? So whats up with that?

The whole going to heaven based on believing Jesus is your saviour but you can be a murdere is a strange thing to me.



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 09:02 AM
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I will throw in the christian 2 cents, since it will come soon even though its not in my character i have heard them babble on for long enough to predict what they will say.

You are right that u can be a horrible person through out your whole life and repent for your sins, so you will be taken into heaven. ALthough the repenting would have to be completely sincear, and since you have been such a horrible person all your life, it is highly doubtful you are repenting your sins in a non-selfish matter. Which god will know and will reject your pass into heaven. So in away their is a loophole but god dam those christian rats always find away to fill in the holes.



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by JAK


And might I say what a surprise it is to see you popping up on a Christian bashing thread Lady V.

Jack



Why is stating your opinion on it, bashing?
I have never said they are all terrible, hypocrites, stupid, blind, dumb, ignorant, evil, wrong or any other negative you would like to add....never! I have, however on the other hand, directly been called almost all of those things by some Christians on this board


[edit on 3/9/2005 by LadyV]


JAK

posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 09:04 AM
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Perhaps then I responded in haste and mistakenly, in which case I apologise. But such threads whining at Christianity are becoming tedious and I believed that was the purpose yet again.

My apologies.

Jack



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 09:06 AM
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It's not unreasonable, that on a dying deathbed, a soldier that has killed many, raped many, bribed and cheated many, lived wihout morals but rules that only outlines who he can kill not how much, that he might be truly scared of what will happen to his soul and under the guidance of a chaplain come to accept Christ...so for 2 minutes of his life, he found Jesus. Now this man goes to heaven???

How about a devoted Christian, pious even, has a hardship in life and a year before he dies has a crisis of faith and denounces god, on his deathbed he dies. This man goes to hell?

What a loving and caring God that lets his own sheep go astray? And welcomes the black sheep at the end of their lifes tenure if they recognized who he is...but never knew him.



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 09:06 AM
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Agreed Jak, i wish we could whin some more about other religions. How about Hmmmm buddism...



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by JAK
I believed that was the purpose yet again.

My apologies.

Jack


Before you believe things you should inquire...that is the purpose of this thread. I was raised a Lutheran with my father being a Lutheran pastor but I still inquire as to the religion as well as all religions. I can understand how you could assume something like that because ATS is full of ignorant people with nothing better to do than to pick fights and speak nonsense.

I like to look at issues in depth. Believing is one thing, inquiring is another...lets look deeper together....



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 09:10 AM
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You aslo have to understand that Sinning also has its own immidiate concenqences. It would be foolish to think that you can murder people and then right before the electric chair switch is pulled you repent to make it okay. you allready bought an early death with your actions, and could have harmed those that loved you.

Rumors are that Jeffery Dahmer, and TImothy McVeigh (sp?) came to the faith before they met thier early end. If they are in heaven, that would really prove how forgiving God truely is.



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by wang
Agreed Jak, i wish we could whin some more about other religions. How about Hmmmm buddism...


People at ATS whine about everything, including Religion, like Judaism, Islam and Christianity...

Buddism...what could you possibly find to whine about that?



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by Jehosephat
You aslo have to understand that Sinning also has its own immidiate concenqences. It would be foolish to think that you can murder people and then right before the electric chair switch is pulled you repent to make it okay. you allready bought an early death with your actions, and could have harmed those that loved you.


Well earthly consequences come good and bad for both positive and negative actions alike. Sometimes bad brings good and good brings bad while bad brings bad and good brings good. That's a whole other discussion.

Rumors are that Jeffery Dahmer, and TImothy McVeigh (sp?) came to the faith before they met thier early end. If they are in heaven, that would really prove how forgiving God truely is.

This is why it's so intriuging to understad. Is God so forgiving that he'll allow them into his Kingdom?



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 09:28 AM
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Well, I had a pretty close brush with becoming a preacher (which for me would have been a real mistake it turns out) so I have a pretty good insight to Christian theology, at least as far as Baptists are concerned (with a little bit of pentecostal influence).

One can not plan to suddenly say the magic words at any certain time. The bible says that you must be called by God. Pentecostals seem to take this very very literally- pentecostals (if I understand correctly) believe that you must be touched by the Holy Spirit and accept it, evidenced by speaking in tongues.
There is some room for discussion over the possibility that some people are doomed to not be called, but it is not explicitly said that not everyone will be called- so maybe everyone does get a chance at some specific point in life. There is also then some consideration for God's foreknowledge. Just because God knows what's going to happen in advance, does that equate to destiny?

In a nutshell- most Christians would likely say that if you are not sincere you will not be saved, and it would be very hard to be sincere if you had believed in God your whole life, yet chose to love "the world" as Christians call it, instead of living for God.

My personal opinion is that Christian doctrine is in denial about human emotions and thought processes. If I wanted to take a Christian perspective I'd say that humans are far more sinful and filthy than Christians would like to admit, and that there is virtually nothing regarding our salvation that is under our control, because in our "wickedness" we will invariably screw it up. I don't take a Christian perspective these days though, so instead I believe that Christianity is tailored to belittle us for unavoidable consequences of our natural tendencies, hopefully causing us to submit ourselves to "holy" authorities.

I don't mean to bash Christianity- I know some true believers, and I respect them as men of strong conscience and self discipline. They're also nearly as twisted as I am on the inside and from time to time I can see that pretty clearly. There's nothing wrong with the Christian faith- I just don't believe in it and am distrubed by abuses that have occured both historically and recently.


JAK

posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by 00PS
Before you believe things you should inquire...that is the purpose of this thread.


I have apologised, out of politeness. As to your suggestion about considering ones actions before acting upon them, indeed you are correct and while I am delighted to see that you have learnt from recent events that is why I apologised. If you wish to talk more about the wiseness of considering ones actions before it is too late meet me in chat.


Originally posted by 00PS
People at ATS whine about everything, including Religion, like Judaism, Islam and Christianity...


Indeed they do, but it seems painfully obviout to me that at present Christianity is getting continously fllogged to death. Go search if you so wish, there is not shortage.



Originally posted by LadyV
I have never said they are all terrible, hypocrites, stupid, blind, dumb, ignorant, evil, wrong or any other negative you would like to add....never!


Perhaps then I have misinterpreted the many posts such as:


Originally posted by LadyV
Some Christians are hypocrites

Wow, really? Are you really of the opinion that there are those out there who are unaware of this fact? Should I continuously pop up on every thread about any other faith bar Christianity and post that



Some followers of *insert faith here* are hypocrites

No, of course not. It would be absurdly ignorant and perhaps even hateful for me to make it my buisness to do so. Nor is it a mature adults task to run around a board shouting accusations of arrogance, intolerance and suchlike at one particular faith:


Originally posted by LadyV
... just like a lot of them repent for going to strip clubs, looking at porn, cheating on the spouse, cheating on taxes, getting drunk, lying to a significant other, lying to sell a car... on and on and on and on...

...there so many divorced Christians, drunkard Christians, Christians that smoke, Christians at the strip clubs, buying porn.....


It is posts and numerous threads that prompted me to post in such haste.

Did I jump to the wrong conclusion? Perhaps.
In the light of so many Christian bashing threads, was it unwarrented? I don't believe so.

I have apologised, I don't believe I can do much else.

Jack



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 09:36 AM
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My addition:

"By your works you will be judged"



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 09:40 AM
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Well, I think a common misconception people have about Christians is that we're all literalists. That if you're a Christian, it's an "all or nothing" thing.

In my experience (going on 40 years of practicing Catholicism) I've met VERY few others that take everything in the Bible literally. Most church-goers I know site many things in the Bible that they "have problems with" or that they simply don't believe as fact. Also, most Christians I know believe there's nothing inherently "wrong" with that.

Many non-church-goers view that as hipocracy, but the simple fact is that we're all human, we all make mistakes in life, we all have mistaken beliefs of one sort or another, but we all seek to find what we personally need as individuals, to make sense of "our" world (and what comes after it).

As Christians, most try to take the positive aspects of our faith and apply them to our lives as best we can - for our good, and the good of humanity as a whole.

As for "after-life", you'll get as many answers to that as there are Christians. We just don't know what happens after death (if anything at all).

Bottom line for me is...you'll reap what you sow, whether you're religious or not.



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 09:40 AM
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Jack...you need to re-read my posts including the ones that you have quoted above...I have never call all Christians any of those things so all the time you spent looking up old thread was a waste of your time. I have stated that "some", "many" and on an occasion said, "most"......these are also people I personally know that are Christians that do exactly what I said.......not people on a BB on the internet. I am not an unintelligent woman, nor an I an ignorant person. I know very well there are Christian out there that actually follow the faith as it should be and that truly are good people....you'll have to try harder to catch me


Side Note.....
I can't beleive you took all that time looking up old threads and then proved nothing ::::shaking head::::


JAK

posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 09:44 AM
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Yes,
You are so right, not a thing


Except that you seem to believe there is a need to point out that some Christians are hypocrites. Do you not see that your apparent continous need(?) to do such things shows you in a certain light?

Really?

Jack

[edit on 9/3/05 by JAK]



posted on Mar, 9 2005 @ 09:52 AM
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From what I understand about the whole repentance issue, if you repent because of fear of punishment, that is selfish repentance and it doesn't count.
Talking to a priest, going to church, that doesn't count either. You have to repent in your heart.

The true repentance would be realising that what you did was wrong and by doing that accept the punishment for it, accept hell.
That would be a selfless act, true repentance for your evil deeds. In that case, God would probably forgive you.





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