Biggest Welfare Fraud Mormons

a reply to: jhin1place

In other words, the way you define your income, and consequently your tithing, is a matter between you and the Lord.

You missed a part!

'Between you, the Lord...and your BISHOP!!!'

C'mon, man...I lived there, and you're a lifelong resident there! Let's not skew the real facts!!!

They aren't going to have much money left after they are done paying back the IRS......lol.

Had a mormon family as tenants for about 15 yrs. One husband, one wife. Couldn't stand that man.

Anyway, my only point is that they really do hoard food. LOL

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

That's what is interesting to me, 'cause I've been on both sides of this equation. When I was younger, and my family was "one of those" non-members, we were usually either "the project", or the outcasts. There were many, many neighbors, bishops, etc., that I could not stand because they were such hypocrites. (this was in the '70s). You could always tell those gung ho types that were out to "save the poor sinners" because we did not know the truth. It was their duty, not out of any love at all.

In my view now, the church has changed a little bit with that kind of attitude. I have a great bishop. I have great neighbors (members and otherwise). This year we had a Christmas party for everyone, including inviting a local congregation from another church to join us. In my community there are also a lot of outreach programs like LDS job services that help anyone with employment.

I can see where you're coming from, though. I've seen the old school judgemental Mormon guys that preach on Sunday, then cheat on their taxes on Monday. I'm hoping most of us have moved past that. To me, it seems that "old guard" is, thankfully, fading away, and a more tolerant and loving church is evolving.

I also know that these are produced by the LDS church, so take them with a grain of salt, but lds.org has put up a lot of videos over the last year that address questions about church history, polygamly, and things like the mountain meadows massacre. They might be skewing the narrative a little bit in their favor, but at least they're trying. (looks like they're on youtube as well)

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

As you say many do not act like Mormons, just like many if not most Christians do not outside of church.

I won't go into the things I learned about the leadership and the rather extreme differences in congregations from one part of the country to the next. Let's just leave it at the problems with the leadership are centered in the old demon money.

The church gives a great deal in return for that money however. The family centered church provides a solid environment for raising children, not to mention they really push education and self sufficiency. The church is also very moderate in it's views. It's very easy and comfortable to be a Mormon.

It used to be the large corporations actually sought out Mormons simply because of their honesty and reliability. You need someone you can trust not to steal or keep to and NDA, they are the best of choices. Those educated at BYU, who stay with the church that far, are not the Jack Mormons of which you speak.

I quit not because they are bad, but because of the duplicity of the leadership the average members are oblivious too.

As an example, the small town I spent much of my childhood in, founded by an ancestor of my mothers', who was a close associate of Young, had its first ever murder when I was 12 or 13 I think it was. There were about 7,000 people in the small town and surrounding rural area and it was virtually crime free.

When we would take a vacation or leave for a couple of days to visit family, we left our doors unlocked so people could get in if they wanted to. The neighbors did the same and we would do things like feed animals, tend to irrigating and other things for each other almost without the need to ask. It's just how it was, nobody stole anything and we took care of each other.

When we suddenly moved to California, due to my fathers death just before my Senior year in high school, it was a culture shock to say the least. All the crime, the drugs and level of illiteracy were a bit of a shock to me. Utah's schools were so superior, I was still using textbooks I'd already had into my second year in college. I literally was so far ahead of them, I had technically graduated already and only took a couple of required half year courses to graduate. I could have just gone to school for one and half hours a day for two 45 minute classes and graduated at the top of my class.

The two requirements were idiotic courses. One of them the teacher openly dealt drugs to students in the class while we watched video's. Like I said culture shock. Only two people, one girl and myself tested above a 7th grade reading level in the Senior class. We both tested at 2nd year college level, with all the others testing at 7th grade or below. Most who graduated could not read. Brand new school with very young teachers who spent half the day outside in their smoking area and there were gang fights right on campus. A "D" student in Utah could have easily been on the honor role in Southern California.

Mormons are different, so people who don't even know them, hate them for no reason. I'm sure you saw that yourself.

Don't know why I'm rambling here. To avoid work I suppose.

a reply to: jhin1place

You are pointing out something I noticed growing up in the late 50s and into the 60s. Where I grew up the church was great and it was a Mormon founded town. When I visited Wards in other states, the church was very different. Much like you describe. I never saw that in the small Mormon town I grew up in.

The worst I saw was in a Ward in Tacoma, WA. They were almost not Mormon anymore. They were into the whole thing of if you were poor you were a sinner and if you lived right you would make a lot of money. The Bishop at that church admitted to me he'd never even read the Book of Mormon and then lectured me on how poor people are sinners. That church was unrecognizable as a Mormon church. One I went to in California was all about the fashion show. You were judged by how expensive your clothes were. Nothing at all like the churches in Utah at the heart of Mormonism. Of course that was a long time ago, so that may have changed a lot.

a reply to: Blaine91555

I think the some of the Midwestern Mormons are similar to your Tacoma experience!

I don't see a difference between this and multiple "baby daddies" in other areas. Both welfare scams need to go. If you can't afford kids that's your decision - not the taxpayers. It is heartless? Yes, it is rather heartless to go ahead and have children knowing you are incapable of supporting them. No one will learn that until they are forced to face the consequences. Nothing like breeding future dependent voters.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
I don't see a difference between this and multiple "baby daddies" in other areas. Both welfare scams need to go. If you can't afford kids that's your decision - not the taxpayers. It is heartless? Yes, it is rather heartless to go ahead and have children knowing you are incapable of supporting them. No one will learn that until they are forced to face the consequences. Nothing like breeding future dependent voters.

Yes and no. I think there is a difference. One is intentionally defrauding, and if you will, doing it in an almost organized crime type of manner. If you are able to warehouse and sell off goods, you obviously don't need taxpayer support.

The same could be said for the single mom popping out 10 kids. The difference is in the details. Maybe she is selling her snap benefits to buy drugs etc. That is a one off, case by case basis. The incident with the sect is far reaching and called the "Biggest welfare abuse case!". That makes it different.

In the end, ten single moms in the city, or ten "single" moms in the rocks, either way, both make me sick. Both groups are fleecing America. I wrote this post because I think the first group is often spoken about when we talk about welfare fraud. When you ask people on the street, you'll hear the same thing, just like you said, baby mama with ten kids, nails done, fancy car, etc etc. What we don't hear about is groups like this mormon sect, which might actually be a bigger fleecing!

a reply to: JAGStorm

I understand some of them in the Deep South are quite radical and very unlike churches in other places. Just rumors of that though, I've never seen it.

Oddly enough, the real topic here is out of character for real Mormons. We were taught to not take charity from the government and rely on the churches own welfare programs. The fake Mormons are apparently quite different. I volunteered often at our towns welfare farm where they grew the food and raised the livestock to help those in need. The church would not give people money, but if say the father got injured, they would pay the bills and provide food and clothing. No government help was needed or wanted. I suspect that has changed over the decades.

I was actually a little worried about posting originally, but I’ve been enjoying the dialog (you know, like rational adults can do, even if they disagree?)

a reply to: Blaine91555

Those educated at BYU, who stay with the church that far, are not the Jack Mormons of which you speak.

I actually wasn't talking about "jack Mormons' at all. Those are the people who go to church, and then to the bar afterwards.

My neighors were devout Mormons. What I was talking about was, inside their house (where I, as a non-mormon was never allowed to venture unless the parents were gone). When their doors closed, life inside that house was pure religion, like a monastery like lifestyle. My friend, Dale, and his brother Scott were great people, but when the sun set...the belt came out. Seriously, a doubled over leather belt...and they got WHIPPED! One mis-step and they got the belt! Just a wrong look at Mom, a sass to a sister...they got whipped, they got the "Belt"

But in the open, they were just normal kids, just like me. Of course, I didn't swear, I didn't smoke or drink coffee...but the irony was "inside" their house was a religious temple (a place I was never allowed to go)....but outside, they were just regular kids.

I'm sorry, but there is a huge dichotomy with this. They lived dual lives. One of them was a seriously religious one, and the other one was just us going and riding motorcycles in the desert.

So, yes, I do understand the "duplicity", but....it's a lot closer to the source than just the elite's of the "Mormon Church".

Simply put, the Mormon Church is just a symptom of a much larger "disease"

My .02
s

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Believe it or not, any father found to be abusing kids like that could find themselves excommunicated. You are describing an abusive father, not a typical Mormon. The church has nothing to do with that kind of behavior. I'm sorry you were exposed to a bad person like that, but it's on that father, not anything the church teaches or tolerates.

Are we talking real Mormon or a member of one of the small groups of nuts in an offshoot? If the church knew about that, they would first send him to counseling and if that failed, they do at times in extreme circumstances kick bad members to the curb.

My father was not a Mormon, only my mother was. They treated my father well and he was always welcome at church events like banquets or when I was involved in activities. He was friends with both Bishops we had while I was growing up. They wanted him to join, but did not push him or treat him badly at all. Non-Mormons are welcome in most Mormon homes.

Mormon homes for the most part are just typical Ozzie and Harriet homes. If anything, child abuse is less prevalent in Mormon homes than typical American homes and non-members are more than welcome in them. It's a shame you ran into that.