Colonel Vindman Tells Ukraine to Ignore Requests From His Boss President Trump.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Gryphon66

Show me once saying what ukraine did was the same as what russia did.

Its was like what russia did, in that they were both foreign election interference. I never spoke of similarities other than that. Vindman, the ukranian expert, somehow knows less about the Ukraine and election interference than me. Perhaps I should be called to testify.

And saying it was ok for Vindman to tell a counter part to ignore trumps request becaise that counterpart was low level is not a defense of Vindman.

And Ratcliffe was right to point this out, and should not be berated by unelected officals who think they have the rigt to decide foreign policy over the eleceted leader.

VIndman knows less about Ukraine according to you and your opinion that is apparently based on other opinions[/b] ... like the Politico article.

Its not my opinion or politicos, is quotes from the ukranian who was interfering, in addition to many other peopkle with first hand knowledge of the black ledger they released about manafort to harm trump.

I love the dems supporters stance now.

Trump and zelensky say no quid pro quo, they must be lying.

Biden admits he did a quid pro quo that got shokin fired; biden is lying and we shouldnt believe him. Biden says he had no knowledge of his sons business, we must believe him.

Leschenko admits to interfering in the 2016 election, we cant believe that, this is just his opinion.

Unbelievable.

Well, the guy I quoted above has a different opinion. And you’re hoisting strawmen by the pound. No one has said or claimed any of that crap.

Is it your claim or not that Leshchenko’s “interference” was releasing the “black ledgers” or not? If not, what and how did he or his cohorts do? According to you?

I’ve given you a quote from someone who knows what happened, and you just seem to discount it.

a reply to: Gryphon66

It was posted twice before.

He admitted he felt trumps request was asking the ukraine to get involved in domestic US politics.

He specifically said on July 31, after the July 25th call, he told his counterpart not to get involved in domestic politics in the US.

Thats him telling his counterpart to to comply with trumps request and investigate biden.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Xtrozero

Wait, y’all think Biden is connected to Grambler’s election interference with Paul Manafort? Or whatever it’s supposed to be?

How so? I’m really fascinated to hear this.

Wait.... The left was very involved with Ukraine in many different directions through much of the Obama administration with follow ups into the election.

It has been spelled out many times...go back and read 1000 posts lol

a reply to: Grambler

Back to the cut and paste gambit.

Do you have evidence, direct evidence from VIndman’s testimony, that he counseled his counterpart regarding staying out of American politics after the Trump-Zelensky call on Jul 25. Vindman stated very clearly that he talked to his counterpart as a matter of “routine housekeeping” on Jul 31.

Did Vindman testify that he so counseled the Ukrainian functionary on Jul 31 or not??? It’s not a difficult question!

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Xtrozero

Wait, y’all think Biden is connected to Grambler’s election interference with Paul Manafort? Or whatever it’s supposed to be?

How so? I’m really fascinated to hear this.

Wait.... The left was very involved with Ukraine in many different directions through much of the Obama administration with follow ups into the election.

It has been spelled out many times...go back and read 1000 posts lol

More vague BS. Your answer is that Biden was connected because “left.”

About what I thought.

originally posted by: Grambler

Show me how telling his counter part to not follow the presidents request is him following orders.

I saw what happened to a military person who told his troops not to follow what the Col said to do...it wasn't pretty
Now lets swap the Col for the president...its now OK?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Gryphon66

Show me once saying what ukraine did was the same as what russia did.

Its was like what russia did, in that they were both foreign election interference. I never spoke of similarities other than that. Vindman, the ukranian expert, somehow knows less about the Ukraine and election interference than me. Perhaps I should be called to testify.

And saying it was ok for Vindman to tell a counter part to ignore trumps request becaise that counterpart was low level is not a defense of Vindman.

And Ratcliffe was right to point this out, and should not be berated by unelected officals who think they have the rigt to decide foreign policy over the eleceted leader.

VIndman knows less about Ukraine according to you and your opinion that is apparently based on other opinions[/b] ... like the Politico article.

Its not my opinion or politicos, is quotes from the ukranian who was interfering, in addition to many other peopkle with first hand knowledge of the black ledger they released about manafort to harm trump.

I love the dems supporters stance now.

Trump and zelensky say no quid pro quo, they must be lying.

Biden admits he did a quid pro quo that got shokin fired; biden is lying and we shouldnt believe him. Biden says he had no knowledge of his sons business, we must believe him.

Leschenko admits to interfering in the 2016 election, we cant believe that, this is just his opinion.

Unbelievable.

Well, the guy I quoted above has a different opinion. And you’re hoisting strawmen by the pound. No one has said or claimed any of that crap.

Is it your claim or not that Leshchenko’s “interference” was releasing the “black ledgers” or not? If not, what and how did he or his cohorts do? According to you?

I’ve given you a quote from someone who knows what happened, and you just seem to discount it.

Show me anywhere in the article you posted where that author says leschenko didnt give over a black ledger.

Please go ahead.

Oh thats right he doesnt say that. In fact, while he says the russia situation was worse, he does say the situation is similar.

Yes leschenko and the Nabu gave a dnc operative a black ledger to help hillary win the election, according to leshchenko

Your authors feelings on whetehr or not this was as bad as russia is irrelevant; the ukranian politician admitted to interfereing in the election to help hillary

originally posted by: Gryphon66

More vague BS. Your answer is that Biden was connected because “left.”

About what I thought.

He was VP during this whole time with personal involvement in Ukraine. Is either of these points not true? He was a big part of the whole Obama admin and Hillary/DNC during the election... once again was he not?

a reply to: Grambler

Why would I show you something that I’ve never said?

You are claiming that the various snippets of opinion articles that you’ve clipped and snipped and posted make the claim that Lushchenko said that he interefered in the US election by giving the black journals away.

Is that correct or not correct? Yes or no?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Grambler

Back to the cut and paste gambit.

Do you have evidence, direct evidence from VIndman’s testimony, that he counseled his counterpart regarding staying out of American politics after the Trump-Zelensky call on Jul 25. Vindman stated very clearly that he talked to his counterpart as a matter of “routine housekeeping” on Jul 31.

Did Vindman testify that he so counseled the Ukrainian functionary on Jul 31 or not??? It’s not a difficult question!

YESSSSS!!!!!

Cant you read?

I guess the picture of the actual transcript isnt good enough

So let me type it put for you

"What I was suggesting - at least at superficial level, was that staying out of US domestic politics is not a good idea"

He clearly meant getting involved is not a good idea. This shows regardless of if it was just a house keeping call or not, he told his counterpart to investigate biden because it would being getting involved in US politics.

He then follows up saying he couldnt counsel them to get involved in US politics

DFid he answer ratcliffe by saying "Absoultely I did not tell my counter part to disregard trumps comments" Did he say "I didnt mention trumps call or investigating biden at all"

Nope, he said he told his counterpart not to get involved in US politics. He then repeated he couldnt tell them to get involved in us politics.

originally posted by: Grambler
*snip*
Your authors feelings on whetehr or not this was as bad as russia is irrelevant; the ukranian politician admitted to interfereing in the election to help hillary

LOL ... oh, you mean the guy I quoted from the Media Matters article above?

That guy? You don’t think his opinion matters?

He’s David Stern, co-author of the article you’re harping about from Politico.

Good to know that we can forget your article from Politico now ... unless you change your mind again.

a reply to: Grambler

Certainly I can read. You keep repeating the same thing over and over and over and it is not substantiated by ANYTHING in VIndman’s testimony.

In fact, Ratcliffe keeps trying and keeps trying to get Vindman to say that he counseled his Ukrainian counterpart AFTER the July 25 call and VINDMAN REFUSES TO DO SO.

So you’re misrepresenting the actual facts again. Creative “cut and paste” and “pretty colors” not withstanding.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Is it correct that I am snipping opinion articles?

Nope that is the lie you are telling.

I posted quotes from lechenko saying he interfered by releasing the ledger. I posted articles from people that interviewed him where he admitted that, where other people with knowledge of the ledger being released admitted that.

You somehow think a guy saying russia was worse debunks that, it doesnt.

Mr Manafort, who vigorously denies wrongdoing, subsequently resigned from his campaign role. But Mr Leshchenko and other political actors in Kiev say they will continue their efforts to prevent a candidate — who recently suggested Russia might keep Crimea, which it annexed two years ago — from reaching the summit of American political power.

“A Trump presidency would change the pro-Ukrainian agenda in American foreign policy,” Mr Leshchenko, an investigative journalist turned MP, told the Financial Times. “For me it was important to show not only the corruption aspect, but that he is [a] pro-Russian candidate who can break the geopolitical balance in the world.”

www.ft.com...

Thats not opinion, thats a quote from teh foreign agent interfering.

I know you have desperately tried to claim this is just an opinion. But you are wrong as everyone can see.

a reply to: Gryphon66

The quote i typed from above from vindman was about his conversation with his counterpart on July 31, after the july 25 phone call.

Its on the section I posted, you just cant or wont read it.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Gryphon66

The quote i typed from above from vindman was about his conversation with his counterpart on July 31, after the july 25 phone call.

Its on the section I posted, you just cant or wont read it.

Nope, that’s your rather desperate assertion. It is not borne out by the remainder of the transcript. Ratcliffe BADGERS VIndman to say what you so desperately want him to say and he refuses to do so because IT’S NOT THE TRUTH.

And you’re choosing to put this slimy Ratcliffe up on a pedestal while you besmirch the name of a decorated war-hero like Vindman.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Gryphon66

You somehow think a guy saying russia was worse debunks that, it doesnt.

Yeah, the opinion of “the guy” who wrote your article at Politico.

David Stern.

LIke I said, you’ve discounted your own source. LOLOL.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Grambler
*snip*
Your authors feelings on whetehr or not this was as bad as russia is irrelevant; the ukranian politician admitted to interfereing in the election to help hillary

LOL ... oh, you mean the guy I quoted from the Media Matters article above?

That guy? You don’t think his opinion matters?

He’s David Stern, co-author of the article you’re harping about from Politico.

Good to know that we can forget your article from Politico now ... unless you change your mind again.

I am well aware of who he is.

His OPINION on if the ukrainian interference was as bad as russian interference is irrelevant to the story he did showing there was ukranian interference.

No where in your article about his opinion does he say anything reported in his article is false, he just says russaia was worse.

I dont care if he thinks russia is worse.

Show me where that author disputes is own reporting

A former Ukrainian investigative journalist and current parliamentarian named Serhiy Leshchenko, who was elected in 2014 as part of Poroshenko’s party, held a news conference to highlight the ledgers, and to urge Ukrainian and American law enforcement to aggressively investigate Manafort.

“I believe and understand the basis of these payments are totally against the law — we have the proof from these books,” Leshchenko said during the news conference, which attracted international media coverage. “If Mr. Manafort denies any allegations, I think he has to be interrogated into this case and prove his position that he was not involved in any misconduct on the territory of Ukraine,” Leshchenko added.

www.politico.com...

a reply to: Xtrozero

Can you show me the official statement that suggests this?

There is not just one statement. There was a month's long traveling caravel show, led by Giuliani's 3 ring circus and followed by Trump's 3 Amigos, "big topped" off with the Mike Pence visit on Sept. 1st.


What I can show you, when they're crafted, are the Articles of Impeachment that will ensue.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Grambler
*snip*
Your authors feelings on whetehr or not this was as bad as russia is irrelevant; the ukranian politician admitted to interfereing in the election to help hillary

LOL ... oh, you mean the guy I quoted from the Media Matters article above?

That guy? You don’t think his opinion matters?

He’s David Stern, co-author of the article you’re harping about from Politico.

Good to know that we can forget your article from Politico now ... unless you change your mind again.

I am well aware of who he is.

His OPINION on if the ukrainian interference was as bad as russian interference is irrelevant to the story he did showing there was ukranian interference.

No where in your article about his opinion does he say anything reported in his article is false, he just says russaia was worse.

I dont care if he thinks russia is worse.

Show me where that author disputes is own reporting

A former Ukrainian investigative journalist and current parliamentarian named Serhiy Leshchenko, who was elected in 2014 as part of Poroshenko’s party, held a news conference to highlight the ledgers, and to urge Ukrainian and American law enforcement to aggressively investigate Manafort.

“I believe and understand the basis of these payments are totally against the law — we have the proof from these books,” Leshchenko said during the news conference, which attracted international media coverage. “If Mr. Manafort denies any allegations, I think he has to be interrogated into this case and prove his position that he was not involved in any misconduct on the territory of Ukraine,” Leshchenko added.

www.politico.com...

Yeah, you’re aware now. You’ve been trashing out his “opinion” for your last several posts.

Now you’re trying to back away. What was it you said before? “Pathetic.”

Either you’re right, and the author of your article was just giving an opinion, or, you’re wrong and Mr. Stern’s opinion is that his article doesn’t say what you and the rest of the right-wing are so DESPERATE to hear. In fact, he states quite clearly that they have NO evidence that the Ukraine worked with the DNC to do anything.

Don’t let that stop your Gish gallop though. We’re done. This is dull.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
a reply to: carewemust

Wait. What?

Now someone who defies to follow illegal orders is called a traitor?

What is the current narrative of the Ukranian story right now? By the rightwings? Trump did everything okay?
Well, why am I asking this in this kind of thread anyway. Of course he is right. Even if he isn't.

What exactly was illegal, and what orders did Vindman receive? I genuinely want to know.