POLITICS: Senate Defeats Minimum Wage Increase

The U.S. Senate has defeated bills that would have increased the national minimum wage 46 to 49. One backed by labor and championed by Sen. Edward M. Kennedy would have raised the minimum wage by $2.10 over the next 2 years. The Republican alternative which included pro-business provisions would have raised it by $1.10 over 18 months. The GOP sponsored bill was defeated 38 for and 61 against.



The minimum wage really should be dictated a state or community level and market forces drive it. In the city of Palo Alto where a 3 bedroom 2 bath, 1300 sq foot fixer upper goes for 1 million plus, a barrista at Starbucks makes about $13 an hour starting. In this case the market has dictated a far higher price for the economics of the area. In other words, $5.15 an hour in say Pawnee, Oklahoma is much different than in a big city.

barrista at Starbucks makes about $13 an hour starting.

Are you joking? It's flat minimum wage for starbucks personell in Canada. Any storefront(ie someone who has to deal with the customers) employee makes crap up here. 13 bucks an hour, is it like the busiest store on the planet and in order to retain employees they have to pay em that much.? I was a baker when I was a teenager at Tim Hortons(you might not reconize that franchize...yet it's a Coffie/Donut/Lunch shop owned by Wendies corp now...) and they paid me 80 bucks a bake that should have taken me 8 hours to do(allthough it took me 3 as I hated the job and cut corners left and right good quality though better then "Regular" Tim Hortons I'll tell you that hah). The store front got paid even less(Minimum wage) and we were the busiest store in Toronto when we opened, lines out the fricken door. The only good thing was that after a year working there you get nearly full medical benefits, so I guess alot of salerie goes there, or so they say... Not many people stay at jobs like that for long, it has a high turnaround rate.

Anyway back onto the topic, I agree with you fred, It should be a State by State(or in my case Province or Terrirtory) case.

[edit on 7-3-2005 by sardion2000]

This is gonna kick some Republican arse in the next election. HIP HIP HOORAY!!! This will be used against Republicans.

$2.10?

... $2.10!?!?

Holy .. that..

I get paid 8.05 Canadian, and Canadian min. is 7.15 - It's going up to 7.45 next year.

I really don't see how you can be happy that your minimum wage is low.. Regardless of whether it should be state by state, and regardless of whether $13 is needed in one place and $4 is needed in another, $2.10 is inhumane, that's literally sickening.

That's only like $2.65 Canadian.. That's just crazy..

On $8.05 I couldn't live in a small apartment here (1 bedroom or less) unless I worked over 45 hours a week.

Our 2 bedroom apartment is $935 all-incl. - Given we're in a bit of a pricey area. I know places where you can get 2 bedroom townhouses for $700, but even that.. (+500 for all living expenses, car/cable/clothes/food, 37 hours a week if I brought home 100% - so It would take 40+ hours a week in reality to live there on 8.05) It's just undoable at 2.65 - it seems like you'd have to live like a rat...

Originally posted by National Security Agency
This is gonna kick some Republican arse in the next election. HIP HIP HOORAY!!! This will be used against Republicans.

Don't you have to be 18 years old to vote? I don't know too many people over 18 years old that make minimum wage, so it won't make a difference.

The minimum wage shouldn't be raised, it should be abolished. Government should not tell people how little they are worth per hour, let the free market decide.

Where are my Libertarian friends on this?

Increasing the minimum wage will only slow the economy and cause inflation. It shouldn't be raised.

The minimum wage shouldn't be raised, it should be abolished. Government should not tell people how little they are worth per hour, let the free market decide.

Yeah, then employers will decide how much an employee is worth, I can't imagine wages increasing in that scenario

But...that's just me, and I can be cynical

[edit on 3/7/05 by poonchang]

The minimum wage shouldn't be raised, it should be abolished. Government should not tell people how little they are worth per hour, let the free market decide.

Where are my Libertarian friends on this?

So, they could just pay people $0.01 an hour and force them to die, and then the market would collapse.

The 'free market' can't run itself, because it is not an entity. It is a collection of individuals and entities. These entities are engaged in competition. For you to allow them to fight with no safety nets, you open the door for half of the free market to kill the other half, and millions of people to suffer.

I don't think it'll work.

Yes, people making money will kill the economy. How dare they want to be paid! They should go to work for 40 hours+ a week for a chicken and 3 apples.

What is the reason if they aren't even going to help everyone even a little bit. Clinton sure secured a higher minimum wage didn't he...not.



Oh well, take what one can get, better than nothing, but this really don't make people want to try harder.

I'd say if your wage is so minimal and you're not happy about it, it becomes incombant on you to improve yourself so that you can make more.

This used to be a concept that Americans understood. I guess not anymore.

How can one better oneself if one spends all of ones time working to live? It's a vicous circle...

I'd say if your wage is so minimal and you're not happy about it, it becomes incombant on you to improve yourself so that you can make more.

This used to be a concept that Americans understood. I guess not anymore.

I'd say it's incumbent upon someone who is talking about being worth more than minimum wage to spell the key word of his point correctly.

Not to flame, I'm no stranger to typos - but there's some killer irony here.

Edit to add quote for clarification.

[edit on 7-3-2005 by Viendin]

It really sucks being poor. I remember when I made $5.15 an hour at age 14 (McDonald's), and now at age 19 I make $7.00 (KNK) an hour.

realclearpolitics.com...

Good article on the effects of raising the minimum wage.

This is the best paragraph

"Although you can force employers to pay their workers more, you can't force them to employ people. If you raise the tax on cigarettes by $2.10 a pack, people will smoke fewer cigarettes. The minimum wage functions as a tax on hiring low-wage workers -- which means companies will look for ways to do without some of them."

if they paid them .01 cents, they wouldn't die, they would just go on to the federal programs, and the taxpayer will pay the tab.....


gee, wonder if NY found that little wrench in their laws that was causing college graduates working in our public libraries being paid below our state minimum wage? hope they weren't waiting and hoping that our government would be logical and raise theirs also....
oh, well, maybe I'll venture down to our library, got the experience, not the degree, but well, it would be easy on the feet.

People will find it ironic that I will agree that raising the minimum wage doesn't really help all that much, simply from the standpoint that it will cause employers to hire fewer people.

What would help more is if we started flattening out the corporate structure so that those at the top aren't making hundreds of times more than those at the bottom. This would help more than any minimum wage hike.

Originally posted by ADVISOR
What is the reason if they aren't even going to help everyone even a little bit. Clinton sure secured a higher minimum wage didn't he...not.

Oh well, take what one can get, better than nothing, but this really don't make people want to try harder.

The last increase was, in fact, during the Clinton Administration, fully endorsed by his team. Also, they campaigned for a raise above that too. I think it was good, but incomplete.

Here's how this argument should be framed:

Labor = Commodity....it's scarcity or abundance dictates price.
Minimum Wage = moral issue more so than economic. Because of that, it's prime for political hagal.
Market = inherently amoral

So, instead of increasing the minimum wage from $5.15 ( or whatever it is), the "living wage" would be better served by aggressive tax refunds and/or credits for folks making that little. Think on that for a spell........

Originally posted by National Security Agency
This is gonna kick some Republican arse in the next election. HIP HIP HOORAY!!! This will be used against Republicans.

You do realize that neither party expected either of the dual increase bills to pass right? THe democrats had a 2 dollar version, it was supported by the dems rejected by the repubs and the repubs had a one dollar version supported by them and rejected by the dems. The democrats aren't going to be able to use this 'against' the republicans in the next elections. Neither party actually thought that either bill would actually pass.

Originally posted by Viendin

I'd say if your wage is so minimal and you're not happy about it, it becomes incombant on you to improve yourself so that you can make more.

This used to be a concept that Americans understood. I guess not anymore.

I'd say it's incumbent upon someone who is talking about being worth more than minimum wage to spell the key word of his point correctly.

Not to flame, I'm no stranger to typos - but there's some killer irony here.

Edit to add quote for clarification.

[edit on 7-3-2005 by Viendin]

Fortunately, my pay doesn't depend on how well I spell and I make considerably more than minimum wage. I notice that you didn't address the actual substance of what I said.