The Drake Equation Fallacy

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I notice you missed the rest of my post which clearly stated PUBLIC. Along with the 20 or so other times I’ve used it. Our journey is at an end I’m afraid, you don’t listen.

originally posted by: Grenade
I notice you missed the rest of my post which clearly stated PUBLIC.

That's you adding an superfluous moderator, it wasn't kept secret.

Have fun with this article.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I’m done with the forum pal. It used to be about acceptance and alternative thinking. Now it’s just full of self righteous intolerant smart asses.

I bid you all farewell. I’m tired of being told what my opinions are.

Your right there’s no such thing as state secrets. Please before I go explain how I could possibly give you an example of an actual secret if it’s well you know secret.

I used to respect you but recently that opinion has changed.

Goodbye and god bless.

a reply to: Grenade

Awww, poor baby. Diddums read the article I just posted? No? Hasta la pasta, pal.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Jay-morris

Sure you were.

You really do not like being wrong don't you! Really damages your ego!

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I’m done with the forum pal. It used to be about acceptance and alternative thinking. Now it’s just full of self righteous intolerant smart asses.

I bid you all farewell. I’m tired of being told what my opinions are.

Your right there’s no such thing as state secrets. Please before I go explain how I could possibly give you an example of an actual secret if it’s well you know secret.

I used to respect you but recently that opinion has changed.

Goodbye and god bless.

And here you are what happens to someone who like to think is super intelligent is wrong! Throws toys out of the pram like a baby!

a reply to: Jay-morris

The Manhattan project was kept secret from the general public. As was the SR-71. Maybe not everyone but certainly there was a level of secrecy maintained. Enough that it took the Japanese by surprise and made worldwide headlines.

I’m afraid I can’t provide you an example of a secret that hasn’t leaked, that’s literally impossible unless I was complicit in keeping it. I’m pretty confident there are black projects out there involving many engineers and scientists that THE GENERAL PUBLIC have no concept of.

The last 2 post from the both of you just show the level of immaturity I’m leaving to avoid. How the mods haven’t reprimanded you for this I’ll never know.

I hope you can become more accepting of others opinions in the future Jay once you grow up and have the ability to construct a legible sentence.

Logging out now, enjoy typing away personal insults among yourselves that I’ll never read.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Jay-morris

The Manhattan project was kept secret from the general public. As was the SR-71. Maybe not everyone but certainly there was a level of secrecy maintained. Enough that it took the Japanese by surprise and made worldwide headlines.

I’m afraid I can’t provide you an example of a secret that hasn’t leaked, that’s literally impossible unless I was complicit in keeping it. I’m pretty confident there are black projects out there involving many engineers and scientists that THE GENERAL PUBLIC have no concept of.

The last 2 post from the both of you just show the level of immaturity I’m leaving to avoid. How the mods haven’t reprimanded you for this I’ll never know.

I hope you can become more accepting of others opinions in the future Jay once you grow up and have the ability to construct a legible sentence.

Logging out now, enjoy typing away personal insults among yourselves that I’ll never read.

And we're hundreds of companies and organisation involved in that? Because regarding a flat earth, thousands of proffesionals and amateurs in science and astromony would be involved in this cover up. You know that this is not likely! In fact, it eould be impossible to keep a secret like that. Esp when you consider all the countries that have their own space agencies, and company space agencies.

a reply to: Grenade

The last 2 post from the both of you just show the level of immaturity I’m leaving to avoid. How the mods haven’t reprimanded you for this I’ll never know.

I hope you can become more accepting of others opinions in the future Jay once you grow up and have the ability to construct a legible sentence.

Logging out now, enjoy typing away personal insults among yourselves that I’ll never read.

Absolute rubbish! You hate being wrong, and I have proved you wrong on occasions, and you do not like that! Hour are too worried about looking intelligent on here, so if course when that goes against you, you have it! That's the problem here!

originally posted by: Grenade
The Manhattan project was kept secret from the general public. As was the SR-71.

I posted two articles showing that both programs had members of the general public aware as well as published reports in journals of the time. You're wrong.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I see no direct references to either the Manhattan Project or the SR-71 in any of your sources. I notice your little caveat “members” of the general public rather than just referencing the public at large. Word games are so much fun. Ok, I’ll be very specific. The mainstream news sources of the day generally suppressed information pertaining to the Manhattan Project. Are you aware of top secret classifications, You’re aware that even to this day some of the information pertaining to the Manhattan Project is still secret? Doubt the US government would release blueprints for its nuclear weapons or advanced aircraft. Don’t be so foolish.

Have to say I’m shocked at your approach here, over the years I’ve found you to be a very logical, knowledgeable and reasonable poster. It’s surprising to me as I generally agree with you and find it out of character for you to not even consider compromise. Surely you’re not stating state secrets don’t exist?

Hopefully we can agree that secrets can and are kept from the general public. Again it’s difficult to provide water tight examples as being members of the public ourselves we only know about those projects which have been leaked.

I really must get off, I really don’t come on here to argue, especially with people I generally respect.

Don’t want to get drawn back in here over arguments about semantics so I’ll leave it there.

Also, I do not think the Earth is Flat, nor do I think there’s some secret conspiracy hiding this fact.

My ATS holiday begins now.

Irrespective of differences in opinion I wish you all well, think anger gets the best of us all sometimes so I apologise for any offence caused.

originally posted by: Grenade
I see no direct references to either the Manhattan Project or the SR-71 in any of your sources....

Yeah, okay.

Manhattan Project:

Since September 1943, investigations were conducted of more than 1,500 'loose talk' or leakage of information cases..

SR-71:

However, aviation experts and the press picked up on the project and did so relatively quickly, sometimes through sheer guesswork, according to the CIA’s recently declassified official history obtained by Governmentattic.org.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Yes, please provide a direct quote from any news article at the time directly referencing the Manhattan Project. A few people bumping their gums around the dinner table or a local news article describing the technology hardly constitutes public knowledge.

a reply to: Jay-morris

I don't believe in a Flat Earth no.

Secrets can and are however kept by Governments, of that i have no doubt.

I'm also pretty dubious about the JFK assassination and the official narrative of the events on 9/11 in New York. If you're asking for me to speculate on secrets that have never met the light of day those would be good ones to start investigating. Until projects or events are officially confirmed then it's just speculation. The official narrative is what the majority of people believe, regardless of evidence. Lets be honest hardly anyone does research of their own.

How many people worked at Groom Lake and how many years was it operational before it became public knowledge?

originally posted by: Grenade
Yes, please provide a direct quote from any news article at the time directly referencing the Manhattan Project.

There's a newspaper article from 1941 talking about uranium enrichment which was classified. Asking for the project name is just you shifting the goal posts again for a superfluous modifier.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

The Manhattan Project was not about Uranium Enrichment. It's you who's picking and choosing facts to fit your argument.

The public at large were not aware of this project. Again, a few people sitting around a dinner table or a loosely referenced local newspaper article hardly constitutes the general public.

The clue is in the name "Secret Project".

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I said governments keep secrets. It's really that simple. Only a fool would argue with that statement. Sure you can argue with my examples, mainly through semantics and definitions but my original assertion holds true.

Right now, do you know absolutely every program currently run by our military? Do really believe the government has no secrets?

I guess if that's your belief i really have no common ground to find and am wasting my time and energy.


What about MKUltra, would that satiate your desire for a good example? Wasn't publicly acknowledged for over a decade.

originally posted by: Jay-morris
So, it's clear that you are a flagmt earther. Is that for religous reasons?

No, it is entirely based on the valid evidence supporting it, while the so-called 'evidence' for a spherical Earth uses trickery, shams, illusions, and so on, to puff up a LACK of any valid evidence.

Airplanes measure Earth on every flight, thousands of times a day, if you seriously believe this does not prove Earth is flat, then it's about YOUR blind faith.

originally posted by: Jay-morris
So let me get this right. All the companies around the world, including has a, Telsa, and all the other countries and the work that have a space agency are all lying? This includes the thousands of people the work for them. They are all lying about the shape of the earth?

You do realise how ridiculous that sounds, and also impossible to keep some like that a secret, esp with all the independent space companies springing up.

That in itself should tell you the flat earth is nonsense!

The 'limited hoax' argument, once again rears its ugly head!

What do you think makes a massive hoax look so believable, in the first place?

When the hoax is further CONFIRMED, with more and more hoaxes.


I've mentioned one perfect example of this before - rockets flying into 'space'. or 'orbit'. This field has involved millions of people over the years, right?

They'd believe it is true, that these rockets flew into orbit, into 'space', of course. And they would NOT be lying about it, either. They are not 'in on it', 'lying about it'.

Here is the trick - make it appear that rockets fly into 'space', into 'orbit', so that everyone will believe it is true.

Claim a rocket is going into 'orbit', and show it blast off from Earth, straight up. Soon after, show it veer off sideways over the ocean, out of our view. Make an excuse for that, being that the rocket must fly around the Earth for awhile, to reach enough speed to 'break free' from Earth's powerful, non-existent force, called 'gravity', and then it will go into 'orbit'!

That's why I said 'gravity' is the magical excuse for all problems, since it always works like a charm.

So now that 'gravity' answers why rockets veer off over the ocean, nobody doubts it anymore. Lights confirm it, later on, because nobody can fake lights in dark skies, right?

When they show so many rockets fly up from Earth, and veer off over the ocean, it MUST be true, right?

The problem that nobody seems to realize, is that NOBODY HAS EVER SEEN A ROCKET FLY TOWARDS ORBIT, from right here, on the Earth. Not one video, either.

It is certainly not because we could NOT see it on Earth, fly up towards 'orbit', until it is a mere speck in the skies above us, going up higher and higher, into 'orbit'. They would certainly know when and where their rockets start to fly up towards 'orbit', so the problem is, why have they NEVER told us where to see their rockets fly up towards 'orbit', from Earth??

Why would you keep it a secret, for all of the rockets you launch, if it was all true? You wouldn't. Nobody would. It makes no sense. You've already shown the rocket launch off, and fly up, and veer over the ocean. No reason to hide it from that point, obviously.

Are you starting to understand what I'm saying, now?

Once again -

We have NEVER seen a rocket fly towards orbit, from Earth.

There is not one actual video taken from Earth showing a rocket fly up towards orbit.

They have NEVER told us where to SEE the rocket fly up towards orbit, from Earth, despite knowing exactly where it WOULD be seen from Earth.


I don't know why anyone would ever believe what they claim about their rockets flying into 'orbit', unless you are a complete idiot. Sorry to say, but that's the truth of it.

Nobody would believe someone who claims a time machine works, by showing you pictures of him in 14th century Europe, taken by the camera he brought in his time machine.

He shows himself entering his time machine. He shows it shaking, before a puff of smoke surrounds the time machine. The lights turn off, and it's all blackness. The lights come back on, soon after, and the time machine is gone!

Would you believe the time machine has gone back in time? No. You didn't SEE it vanish from your sight. If you had, at least you have proof it MAY be a time machine. It certainly isn't a hoax, no matter if it's an actual time machine or not.

The same thing for a rocket. We cannot believe rockets MIGHT fly around Earth, but if we see them fly up towards 'orbit' into a tiny speck in the sky, at least we would know it was not a complete hoax.

It IS a complete hoax, obviously, and we will NEVER see a rocket fly towards 'orbit' from Earth, and they will NEVER tell us where to SEE a rocket fly up towards 'orbit'. When will you realize that?

a reply to: turbonium1

lets talk about sextants and polaris