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SCI/TECH: Ethiopia Archaeologists Make Important Fossil Find

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posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 06:20 PM
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Archaeologists in eastern Ethiopia have discovered remains that predate the famous fossil "Lucy" The discovery of the 12 specimens include parts of one individual's skeleton, complete with ribs, vertebrae and pelvis. The remains are estimated to be about 3.8 to 4 million years old.

 



today.reuters.com

ADDIS ABABA, Ethiopia (Reuters) - Archaeologists studying human origins in eastern Ethiopia have discovered 12 fossils that appear to be older than the famous fossil "Lucy," the team leader said on Saturday.

"The discovery of 12 early hominid fossil specimens estimated to be between 3.8 to 4 million years old will be important in terms of understanding the early phases of human evolution before Lucy," Ethiopian archeologist Yohannes Haile Selassie told a news conference.

"It is hoped that the new discoveries will allow scientists to connect the dots, furthering our knowledge of the time period in human evolution," he added.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Its an interesting find and the remains were found with those of other animals so It may have been a failed hunt or something. it also was found pretty close to where the "Lucy" remains were found. yet another nail in the creationism coffin to be sure.




posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 07:17 PM
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No to worry Fred the creationist will find a way to link it to an abomination or they will find a place for it in the bible and then blame it on bad data and Satan


Even if they find a frozen caveman that will come to life the bible followers will discredit it just for the fact of not been in the bible.



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 08:46 PM
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Thats exactly how it will happen marg and that is exactly what I believe! These were not creations of God but attempted creations of man by fallen angels.



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by CmptrN3rd5
Thats exactly how it will happen marg and that is exactly what I believe! These were not creations of God but attempted creations of man by fallen angels.


Actually I agree with you on the point that it may have been creations of man or attempts to create man by because I am not a religious believer I will said that it was by a higher being not of this earth, perhaps it was tampering with our DNA and early forms of human in earth at the time, but when these beings used their own DNA and added to the early humans modern man was born.

I kind of like that scenario of creation better.



posted on Mar, 6 2005 @ 10:38 PM
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You are correct but these ape men were creations by the cast out angels who tried to make their own people in the exact image or better image of Gods but failed. Which is why they dont look the same as us. We are not evolved from the ape men. They saw that they couldnt yet acheive these perfect results so they interbred with God's creation of man to create these hybrids so that they might find a way to create their own race of us to rule over and that is what makes up most of our population today. So many have already fallen to them and are being controlled by them so they are succeeding. They are trying or have already succeeded in creating a body in which Lucifer will use to come to Earth in the flesh and to be the Antichrist that is said to come. But I have speaken enough, I will let you choose what you want to believe.



posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 05:51 AM
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Wow the last line of that article was definitly not needed, Im guessing you put that there as an attempt to stir the waters, but I could be wrong.

Such incredible intolerence, its a sad day when people that think aliens created us in THEIR image get more respect then Christians do. No one catches more flak then Christians, well I take that back, Muslims are recieving a good dose of hate right now as well. Its funny how all much hateful and offensive comments are thrown at Christians and how nobody says a thing against it.

Whats even more funny is that if I went off and said half the things about say...Wiccans or New Agers that some say about Christians, Id be blasted off the face of ATS.

I for one will not go around hating people for what they believe, I will not call people who believe differently then me ignorant, stupid, or any other insult you can think of. I tolerate others, wow what a concept. And to top it off, I tolerate them without constantly and purposely offending them and I do not obsess over proving them wrong.

I swear I could have read something about the whole respect/tolerence/deny hate thing on ATS, but apparently Christians got left out of the loop.

[edit on 7-3-2005 by PlausibleDeniability]



posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 06:44 AM
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A lot of people, myself included, like to knock fundamentalist creatonism, However given that this is a conspracy site ask yourself this. If the bibles account of genesis were litterally true, and the entire world was less than 10-20,000 years old. Further assuming that the creationists are right and all the geological evidence for evolution were "planted by the devil", how would we know?
How can we sit at our computers, discussng reptlians, aliens, the NWO, the illuminati, without at least considering that the geological evidence of evoultion and the age of the earth was planted by either god or the devil?



posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 06:48 AM
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First of all.........the "Lucy" find was a fake. "She" is a composite of several bones some of which were found upto 1.5 miles away from the original "site".

So don't get too excited.....................



posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by mwm1331
A lot of people, myself included, like to knock fundamentalist creatonism, However given that this is a conspracy site ask yourself this. If the bibles account of genesis were litterally true, and the entire world was less than 10-20,000 years old. Further assuming that the creationists are right and all the geological evidence for evolution were "planted by the devil", how would we know?
How can we sit at our computers, discussng reptlians, aliens, the NWO, the illuminati, without at least considering that the geological evidence of evoultion and the age of the earth was planted by either god or the devil?


From a Jewish perspective, the world is 5765 years old (I think). Religious Jews describe the old artifacts as artifacts from 'previous worlds' or world that predated 5765 years ago. They claim that the world renews itself or is re-created every 6000 years.

As a BSc in Biology who minored in Anthropology I see much in the Creationist concept and I have reservations regarding evolution on a macro level (e.g. monkey to man - bacteria to elephant).

You cannot neglect the beauty of this world which seems to have been designed and not random.
Micro evolution (speciation) can also be a designed trait - Of course the question is who designed?



posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
No to worry Fred the creationist will find a way to link it to an abomination or they will find a place for it in the bible and then blame it on bad data and Satan


Even if they find a frozen caveman that will come to life the bible followers will discredit it just for the fact of not been in the bible.


Do you expect the cave man to say - Hey I was once a monkey.

I speak from a Jewish perspective so I do not understand your point. Cavemen existed. now extinct, advanced primates existed but that does not necessarily mean there is a link between the two. The only thing that means is that the two existed either in parallel or following one another. No proof has ever been given for evolution - only theory. Creationist have their theory regarding the origin of living entities.
Personally I see much wisdom in Intelligent Design of life in the universe.



posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by PlausibleDeniability
Wow the last line of that article was definitly not needed, Im guessing you put that there as an attempt to stir the waters, but I could be wrong.

Such incredible intolerence, its a sad day when people that think aliens created us in THEIR image get more respect then Christians do. No one catches more flak then Christians, well I take that back, Muslims are recieving a good dose of hate right now as well. Its funny how all much hateful and offensive comments are thrown at Christians and how nobody says a thing against it.

Whats even more funny is that if I went off and said half the things about say...Wiccans or New Agers that some say about Christians, Id be blasted off the face of ATS.

I for one will not go around hating people for what they believe, I will not call people who believe differently then me ignorant, stupid, or any other insult you can think of. I tolerate others, wow what a concept. And to top it off, I tolerate them without constantly and purposely offending them and I do not obsess over proving them wrong.

I swear I could have read something about the whole respect/tolerence/deny hate thing on ATS, but apparently Christians got left out of the loop.


Why exactly is it a "sad day" when people give unsubstantiated, unproven and questionable fairy tales equal disregard? Your Christian beliefs are constructs from the minds of men; it should not be lost on anyone that it's start was that of a rabid cult.
The overwhelming Christian position is that of intolerance, both overt & passive aggressive. A smug smile and a "I'll pray for you" ( since there's no way you can get near heaven without accpeting Jesus!!), is as much an example of intolerance as the active professing of gays to be sinners.
Almost as annoying? This whole positioning of the Christian lifestyle as being persecuted, in order to "work the referees" of social perception even more into the power grip. All this while Chrisitian bully their perspectives, from the ownership of the federal government on donwn the chain, onto the America forum.
Let it come because the warts will gain clear view for all to see, due to the hubris driving it.

As for the "devil planting bones" and this whole "devil made monkey men" theory, that is most definetly a new one on me..........anybody got a link where I can read more?



posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
First of all.........the "Lucy" find was a fake. "She" is a composite of several bones some of which were found upto 1.5 miles away from the original "site". So don't get too excited.....................


Ah the good doctor.. Theology is it? AT any rate lets see how many of these fit here shall we?

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.



posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by PlausibleDeniability
Wow the last line of that article was definitly not needed, Im guessing you put that there as an attempt to stir the waters, but I could be wrong.

Im sorry but it was no attempt to stir the waters as my opinion of the bogus claims of creations are a matter of record here on ATS. In regards to Christians being persecuted
are for real? How many wars have been fought in the name of Christianity? Setting aside the virtual genocide by the Popes "Birth COntroll Is A Sin" stance?????



posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by DrHoracid
First of all.........the "Lucy" find was a fake. "She" is a composite of several bones some of which were found upto 1.5 miles away from the original "site". So don't get too excited.....................


Ah the good doctor.. Theology is it? AT any rate lets see how many of these fit here shall we?

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.


I think number 5 fits well eh? But so does 2,3,4,5,6,9,10



posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 08:57 AM
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We did this a while back, still 0 for 10 there Freddy.........

The facts are Lucy was faked............it has nothing to do with "creationisim". Just bad science.............



posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
We did this a while back, still 0 for 10 there Freddy.........

The facts are Lucy was faked............it has nothing to do with "creationisim". Just bad science.............


Ah but the top ten fits you oh so well

Fake? really, please present your proof, and for gods sake lets see it from somewhere other than reasearch from Oral Roberts U. or Bob Jones University eh?


[edit on 3/7/05 by FredT]



posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
First of all.........the "Lucy" find was a fake. "She" is a composite of several bones some of which were found upto 1.5 miles away from the original "site".

This is completely incorrect.
Lucy is not a composite
www.talkorigins.org...
and



www.talkorigins.org...
Another example involving numerous creationists is the claim that Donald Johanson discovered "Lucy's" knee joint 2 km away from the rest of the skeleton. This claim was first made in the Bible-Science Newsletter by Tom Willis in 1987, and has since been repeated by Walter Brown, John Morris, Paul Taylor, Russell Arndts, and Michael Girouard. But it's false, apparently based on a misunderstanding at a Q&A session at the University of Missouri attended by Willis. Johanson did find a knee joint 2 km away from "Lucy," but he never claimed that this knee joint was "Lucy"'s. I gave a copy of a letter from Johanson describing the facts of the matter to Girouard in person at an ICR seminar, and he claimed he would read it carefully and respond to any letters I wrote him. I wrote him in December of 1989 and never received a reply. Brown was also informed of the facts of the matter, in both the pages of Creation/Evolution and of Origins Research. In both cases he responded with new claims about "Lucy" which had nothing to do with the knee joint--he just ignored the issue at hand. (Origins Research didn't print my followup.) My letter to Tom Willis received no reply. My letter to the Bible-Science Newsletter (in response to Arndts' more recent repetition of the false claim) went unpublished and I received no reply...


Here is a short article on misconceptions about australpithecines.


Here is Lucy. Its an indivual, not a composite.



posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 10:38 AM
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For the most part - both sides are right and wrong. The real problem is everyone is stuck in their box and pride is stopping most from looking outside.

The Genesis is not a literal account of how it all began, each day of the week symolizes each stage of creation - hence the 6 days.

Archeology has found evidence of man and technology older than what should be. Also, visions and enlightenments show man has been here for a while - going through cycles. Man advances, kills themselves, restart.

Many religions all thinking theirs is right. None and all are right.

We evolved, maybe, but something helped us along.



posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by godservant
The Genesis is not a literal account of how it all began, each day of the week symolizes each stage of creation - hence the 6 days.

Why is your interpretation supposed to be more 'correct' than the other equally valid interpretations?


Archeology has found evidence of man and technology older than what should be.

Such as what?

Also, visions and enlightenments show man has been here for a while - going through cycles.

So you would admit hysterical and ecstatic visions as sources of knowledge about actual history? How do you differentiate between correct and incorrect visions?

Man advances, kills themselves, restart.

No evidence suggests that all of mankind was destroyed, and then restarted as a sort of 'pre-programmed' cycling of stages.

We evolved, maybe, but something helped us along.

Nothing indicates that this is required.



posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by DrHoracid
First of all.........the "Lucy" find was a fake. "She" is a composite of several bones some of which were found upto 1.5 miles away from the original "site".

This is completely incorrect.
Lucy is not a composite
www.talkorigins.org...
and

Here is Lucy. Its an indivual, not a composite.


Thanks Nydan for the post, I knew about that from another long time ago thread on her here in ATS, I even got a book on her, I just didn't want to go into a debate.


As usual you have the ones that wanted to discredit the credibility for obvious reasons.

I still think she is one of the best discoveries so far.



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