An Olive Branch...

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Rob808

No, no, and no.

We cannot have a civil discussion with one side who thinks their opinions are facts. You can't have a civil discussion with one side who takes every criticism and flips right back whether its true or not. You can't have a civil discussion with one side who has not respect for the minority opinion. You can't have a civil discussion with one side who never takes responsibility for anything in public policy regardless if they were in the majority when a bill was passed.

Who cares, politics really don't matter much. People are going to buy cars and gasoline. People are going to shop at grocery stores. People are going to copulate and have babies.

Civil discourse is NOT going to change anything. The billionaires in power like everything exactly the way it is now. Money equals representation. NOTHING will change.

Bill of Rights and the Constitution are not opinions. They are how we live and what makes us Americans. Disarming all Americans is not an option.

a reply to: Rob808

Except for the simple fact that we have these pesky things called laws and taxes, neither of which are very cognizant of We the People. Look, I agree that neither side has all the right or all the wrong, but one side damn sure has a lot more wrong than they have right, especially where enumerated Constitutional Rights, respect of earnings and ownership, and ironically respect of America's democracy is concerned.

One party does not threaten my livelihood, values, culture, rights, and safety while the other party doesn't simply threaten those priorities, they literally PROMISE to fundamentally dismantle them during their campaign tirades.

I will not negotiate with terrorists and see no reason to make peace with the goddamned devil.

a reply to: Rob808

I'm pleased to be able to add to your first thread Rob. I think that proving a point is more important to some people than listening to other points. I also think that it is wiser to listen to other points than to prove ones own. Often a good way to do this is to listen and then in reply, toss opposing perspectives into the conversation thus allowing for juxtaposing the two perspectives. Listening is essential.

We have already seen the election winner hold out an olive branch. What he received back in turn was likened to small pox infected blankets.

Why do I have this weird urge to take this olive branch in my hand and ram it into your brain via your eye hole?

a reply to: Rob808

When you take politics out of the equation most people can get along quite amicably. The problem that happens when politics gets brought into any discussion is the lack of listening. Everyone wants their opinions to be heard but they don't want to listen to what anyone whose opinion opposes theirs has to say, they only wait for the other to pause so they can state their opinion LOUDER- and back and forth it goes.

There is no desire to civilly discuss and find possible compromise any longer, that is why our government is at a constant stalemate and nothing gets passed. There is only "I am right and you are wrong!"

The thing is most of us really aren't that different once you subtract politics. I can sit down and have dinner, drinks and wonderful conversation with nearly anyone regardless of race, gender, age, socio-economics or religion. Formerly that list included political beliefs as well, but since the media and our own elected representatives have polarized politics it is rare to find anyone of opposing beliefs that can still discuss such matters politely and simply agree to disagree.

We have been programmed to divide along political lines, nefarious purposes being the only possible reason. It is a sad thing that our elected officials and our own media have conspired to do this and even sadder that we have taken the bait and played right into their dirty hands!

originally posted by: thedigirati

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Rob808

No, no, and no.

We cannot have a civil discussion with one side who thinks their opinions are facts. You can't have a civil discussion with one side who takes every criticism and flips right back whether its true or not. You can't have a civil discussion with one side who has not respect for the minority opinion. You can't have a civil discussion with one side who never takes responsibility for anything in public policy regardless if they were in the majority when a bill was passed.

Who cares, politics really don't matter much. People are going to buy cars and gasoline. People are going to shop at grocery stores. People are going to copulate and have babies.

Civil discourse is NOT going to change anything. The billionaires in power like everything exactly the way it is now. Money equals representation. NOTHING will change.

you just typed this whole rant, yet no one stopped you from posting, not a rich guy, or a poor guy. not an ATS MOD, not a NSA lackey

yet you just typed how horrible it is the only the rich get a voice, with your own voice....

And lets not forget who your refering to wouldn't know the definition of civil discussion judging by the usual MO. Hypocrate is hardly strong enough description.

Only in recent weeks attempting to redirect that aggression thankfully.

I guess some progress is good progress though.

a reply to: Rob808

I get where you’re coming from, and I agree for the most part. However, the issue, on both sides, is putting feelings over facts. These days, we’re not particularly studious; we’re just omniscient through the process of osmosis. There was a time when dialectical discussions held water. Now, false theses and antitheses are painted with the brush of sensationalism, with the only synthesis being mutual hatred.

Sorry, I used to think like you do OP but then I dared defend Trump and I learned who my real friends are.

It is the Left that is intolerant.

Patience, kindness, civility and even charity is wasted on the Left.

They are a cancer.

originally posted by: Rob808
I've been a long time lurker of ATS, and only recently (ish) been commenting on threads here. This is my first attempt at creating a thread myself so please be gentle folks...

Today is, much like any day, full of challenges and division. However I believe we all feel the ever increasing fervor of rhetoric on all sides and many feel forced to choose a side and fiercely show their allegence. I have found myself swept up more than once in the enternal howl of humanity, trying to stake my claim of "rightness" and squash those who I disagree with.
As of late the tone has shifted, or maybe it changed a while ago and we just haven't noticed, but things are quickly reaching a point of irreconcilable differences between the many sides that want to make their voices heard.
Are we not men? Have we lost our civility? Can we still discuss with any decorum of mutual respect? I fear we are losing the ability to respectfully disagree on any issue and have devolved to something lower than ourselves. Are we not neighbors, co-workers friends, family? I'm sure there will be those of you who will ridicule me for my words, but I ask that we take a step back and reflect on who we are. We are all motivated by our own desires to create the best world we can as best we can see it. That should bring us together not drive us apart.
For those who are sharpening your pitchforks, remember there are good men and women on all sides. Don't let the talking heads control you. Those who watch cnn, fox, youtubers, don't let those voices be your voice.

Take your hands off our duly elected President and we can talk...

a reply to: Iscool

I kinda hope they keep their hands ON him. Its like in criminal court when sometimes the prosecutor shoots themself in the foot in introducing evidence that is proven to be exculpatory or opens the door for evidence that throws light on someone else. I think if things keep going, and some keep running their mouths, then it will be much more deadly for THEM than the sitting duly elected president.

Bring on that there impeachment!

We are too different.

There can never be peace between us.

a reply to: Majic


All I have to say to that is... DAX AND WORF.

a reply to: Rob808

A handshake and a persons word used to mean something, now not so much. Trust, respect, honesty were things people took to heart, now not so much. I believe people need to learn to think for themselves again not think of themselves.
We are living in a what can you do for me world. We need to change on an individual basis. It starts with me.

a reply to: Metallicus

Are you willing to let someone use the constitution as a doormat?

That man has no respect for the constitution. He doesnt even know what's in it lets be honest.

He only cares about himself. NOT YOU

a reply to: DBCowboy

Wow that's the Wiccan Rede... And it harm none do what you will.
I had no idea ...

a reply to: Sabrechucker

And others live with their heads in the sand.
Or just watch FOX news.

Wow, that seems like a very odd response. You tell me? How about over a beer friend?


a reply to: Advantage

I don't disagree that there COUNTLESS examples of intolerance, from the left right up down and middle. It's pushed my personal political opinion quite a bit. Pushing back against the most extreme examples can make you become that extreme example to your opposing side. Your words lose all power as they can no longer be heard.

a reply to: toolgal462

Come on silly that's what I'm trying to call out. I know you are intelligent and follow your morals. It shouldn't be a big leap that all of it, Fox, CNN youtubers and the like have no cornerstone on truth, and if you can see one side is manipulating you should be able to see ALL sides are. a reply to: Sillyolme