Something is Just Not Right Here

While participating in the various threads concerning the latest attempts to find a way to impeach President Trump, I had this nagging little voice in the back of my head. Now, rumor is that the whistleblower is a disgruntled ex-CIA operative, which would explain quite a lot, but it wouldn't explain everything. For instance... I can understand why the Congressional Democrats would take any means whatsoever to try and impeach the President (likely because they know he is set for another term), but there's more here. The rhetoric spouted during the hearing with the acting DNI today (yesterday?) was completely out of sight.

But there's more, and that is what I want to address. Why is Joe Biden not able to be investigated? It appears from the call transcript that this is the reason for the vitriol. Biden himself has been quite irate at the idea of being investigated. So what really happened in Kyiv?

We have all (I hope) seen the videos by now: Joe Biden bragging about how he demanded a corrupt prosecutor be fired and withholding a billion dollar loan guarantee of it wasn't done within six hours. We have all heard about how he supposed did this in order to protect his son Hunter from prosecution of the company he had just landed a very lucrative contract with. That prosecutor was Viktor Shokin, who was the Prosecutor General of Ukraine from February 11. 2015 until March 29, 2016.

Wait, March 29th? Biden's visit was in December of 2015 wasn't it? Didn't he get Shokin fired in December?

No, apparently he didn't. Wikipedia has Viktor Shokin serving based on the dates above. Of course, this is Wiki, so let's find some corroboration, shall we? How about the New York Times? The article is dated March 29, 2016 and is titled Ukraine Ousts Viktor Shokin, Top Prosecutor, and Political Stability Hangs in the Balance, reported by Andrew E. Kramer.

MOSCOW — Bowing to pressure from international donors, the Ukrainian Parliament voted on Tuesday to remove a prosecutor general who had clung to power for months despite visible signs of corruption.

But in a be-careful-what-you-wish-for moment, veteran observers of Ukrainian politics said that the prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, had played an important role in balancing competing political interests, helping maintain stability during a treacherous era in the divided country’s history.

OK, so he was corrupt. The US has a legitimate interest in controlling corruption in a country we are giving so much foreign aid to. So it looks like Biden is clear on that; he could have been acting under orders from Obama. As much as I hate the Obama administration and as much as I dislike the optics of heavy-handed dealing with other nations, I can understand the situation. As for the dates, it does say due to pressure from international donors, so maybe Biden just embellished a little... same result, but it took a few months to actually remove Shokin from office.

But there's more:

In the final hours before Parliament voted him out, Mr. Shokin had fired his reform-minded deputy prosecutor, David Sakvarelidze, with whom he had been feuding. It was not immediately clear whether that firing would remain in force.

So apparently Shokin was feuding with his own department as well.

In one high-profile example, known in Ukraine as the case of the “diamond prosecutors,” troves of diamonds, cash and other valuables were found in the homes of two of Mr. Shokin’s subordinates, suggesting that they had been taking bribes.

But the case became bogged down, with no reasons given. When a department in Mr. Shokin’s office tried to bring it to trial, the prosecutors were fired or resigned. The perpetrators seemed destined to get off with claims that the stones were not worth very much.

Here we have what seems to be the crux of the corruption allegations: two of Shokin's associates were caught with a ton of hot loot. Now, why anyone would keep that kind of loot in their homes instead of turning them into nice little numbers in an offshore bank account, especially when Shokin himself was feuding with others in his office, I do not know... but lets give that a pass for the moment.

Shokin was known for corruption, but there are two different kinds of corruption: a corrupt prosecutor can attack enemies with malicious prosecution, or they can enrich themselves through shady deals to protect corrupt companies. Shokin appears to be the latter. So why would he be investigating Hunter Biden's company, the Burisma Group, a petroleum exploration company owned by Mykola Zlochevsky? Zlochevsky is a Ukrainian politician and businessman who himself seems to have been embroiled in some controversy over financial laundering. Strangely, he was not in Ukraine from late 2014 until 2018, as he was on the lam hiding from possible prosecution. Interestingly, he was never convicted. London had frozen many of his assets during the investigation, but released them for lack of evidence presented.

If Zlochevsky was not charged and the prosecutor was Shokin, it is likely that Shokin was open to being paid off. If so, if Shokin was corrupt, he would have been happy for a payoff to stymie the investigation and Zlochevsky would not have had to leave the country. But he did leave. That makes less than a lot of sense, especially considering that rumor says he eventually paid off the prosecutor (shokin's successor) to end the investigations.

It was during this time that Hunter Biden received the lucrative deal from the Burisma Group. $50k per month for someone with no experience in either the petro industry or the Ukraine seems like a lot of money. So there's another confusing situation...

Then I found an article that actually had a statement from Shokin himself:

Bi den brought his people in Ukraine's Prosecutor General's office to cover his son's business, - Shokin

Briefly about Shokin: he was a member of the investigation teams for cotton and fish affairs in the late Soviet Union, he investigated the stories of a pedophile teacher from a boarding school for mentally retarded children, and the “Kovalev gang.” During Ukraine’s independence, Shokin oversaw the case of the White Brotherhood and set up an investigation team that managed to get out and detain the murderers of journalist Georgiy Gongadze.

That doesn't sound very corrupt to me...

--to be continued--

--continued from above--

From the same ar ticle:

That is, the Presidential Administration stated fact that Sakvarelidze should become your deputy?

Not exactly. A start was a kind of familiarization. Having greeted David at one of the working meetings, Pyatt said to me: "Well, this man is very respected by the American people." Well, I answered and asked, and what did he do for the USA? After all, they all escaped from their countries... Pyatt became mad, he was offended by this...

That is, Sakvarelidze was imposed by the Americans? So he dealt with their interests here, right?

Partly so, but he did not serve America’s interests, but Biden’s personal interests (I clearly share these things). Specifically, Biden stood behind it all. Then Biden landed here such managers who were personally obliged to him and were on his pay and allowance. Everyone knew about it.

Do you think that the "diamond prosecutors" (“diamond prosecutors,” troves of diamonds, cash and other valuables were found in the homes of two of Shokin’s subordinates, suggesting that they had been taking bribes, - ed.) case was used for blackmailing you so that you would step back from Zlochevsky?

No, I would never have gone on such a deal. Sakvarelidze and Trepak simply covered these judges, and used them in their “Biden needs.”

So why then you were fired?

Biden took it very seriously. He promised Poroshenko that he would bring damaging information against me. He arrived in December 2015, spoke at the Verkhovna Rada, said nothing about it, and left. I then got ready and went to Bankova (where President’s Administration is located, - ed.). The conversation was like: "Well, did Biden bring some damaging information?" - "Viktor, he did not bring anything against you." You know that if the Vice-President of the United States had evidence of my corruption, he would probably use all this for his own purposes.

But this did not really help.

Yes, there were regular ultimatums and discussions about me. I finally crossed the threshold on February 2, 2016, when we went to the courts with requests to re-impose arrests on the Burisma property. I suppose that then the president received another call from Biden, blackmail by non-allotment of credit... Poroshenko surrendered then.

What? That sounds like Shokin was actually trying to ferret out corruption from the Burisma Group. Now recall from above that he was feuding with his second in command, and that his associates were caught with all that hot loot that it makes no sense for them to have lying around at home. He also apparently would not take bribes from Zlochevsky to drop the investigations.

It appears that Shokin was not as corrupt as his reputation says.

Which answers the question of why Zlochevsky was forced to flee prosecution. But if Shokin wasn't corrupt, why was he fired? According to Shokin himself above, Biden was the source of the corruption. He could have gotten his son a position on the board of the Burisma Group to replace Zlochevsky... and the only thing that could interfere was an investigation by Viktor Shokin.

Now, all that is simply supposition, a tall tale that formed in my mind. It does not mean either Biden did anything wrong. However, it does have circumstantial evidentiary support, and to my thinking that means there should be an investigation into Joe and Hunter Biden by Ukraine... ironically exactly what Trump was asking for. So why the fervor over making sure Joe Biden is insulated from any such investigation?

We also know that Trump's primary mention was Crowdstrike, the company who performed the forensic examination on the hacked DNC server. We also know that the FBI was denied access to the servers, and that denial means that they could not possibly have searched the drives for residual data to indicate improper erased access... a duplicate drive simply does not contain that type of information. This kind of examination, based on the results of an outside private firm, is highly unusual. Is it possible that the information actually obtained from Crowdstrike is still in the Ukraine as a backup? Could those servers still be sitting a warehouse somewhere? There is, since last month, a new Prosecutor General, Rusian Riaboshapka, and President Zelensky seemed to think so based on the phone call transcript. President Zelensky ran on a platform of anti-corruption... could this be Trump's opportunity to find out exactly how the Russian investigation came about?

That would explain the frantic calls for impeachment. They are doubly strange when one realizes that the election is only a little over a year away and the political fallout from defeating Trump in the election would be orders of magnitude less severe than impeaching him over a questionable phone call. Why would the Democrats in Congress choose the hardest route with the most risk and least chance of success with a Republican Senate? Also, several Republicans are indicating a willingness to go along with impeachment, and we all know (or should) that corruption is not restricted to party.

I believe this accusation has opened up a breach in the armor surrounding the establishment in Washington DC. The tendrils of such an investigation could conceivably reach all the way back to Obama and Clinton. If I am right, no wonder people are so scared!

Joe Biden's actions in the Ukraine should be investigated. If I am wrong, I am wrong and he has nothing to hide. But if I am right... this could be the biggest scandal to ever hit the US government. We just spent almost three years investigating a sitting President because someone incorrectly thought he colluded with Russia... there seems to be more here than there was there.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Excellent research and insight into this whole affair. Makes perfect sense.

If true, I really hope this backfires badly for them.

Great OP.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Quality thread OP!!

I have too little insight in the matter to be of assistance but I will be following the progress.

Make ATS great again...

Peace

Exactly.

The fact that they are having such spastic conniptions about this, shows how scared they are of it coming to light. Why such hysterics if all for nothing?

The fact that the political left has been caught red-handed and still gets only a slap on the wrist if that, for the same acts they want heads rolling for only because it's the opposition who did it.

Why the double standard when it comes to punishing them versus the right?

Seems very stacked on favor of the globalist agenda.

In fact the obvious disdain for anything centered, is all the proof I need that the agenda is one of social destruction not construction.

Fifth column brought about via the old Cloward Piven and Alinsky, toss in some image assassination by way of smear campaign and the entire arsenal of the left is plain to see.

Truth is, the communists are losing control of the globalist agenda they have gone all in for.

They know the majority doesn't want a global one world government, because it removes individuality with a cookie cutter society.

The left wants a society of mindless drones, while the right wants free thinking individuals.

That, is how I see it. We don't have to agree, and I prefer people didn't always do so. But the violent triggered reaction of those who are mentally sheltered shows the truth can't be handled by the ignorant masses.

Hence the dominant over use of social engineering via multi media outlets. Telling people what to think rather than how...

a reply to: TheRedneck

Great post.

Here's some more perspective. According to the prosecuter they did not find any wrong doing.

www.nbcnews.com...

A former Ukrainian prosecutor who investigated a gas company tied to Hunter Biden said Thursday that there was no evidence the former vice president's son engaged in illegal activity.

"From the perspective of Ukrainian legislation, he did not violate anything,” Yuriy Lutsenko told The Washington Post.

And also furthermore. Whatever violations may have occurred happened before Hunter joined the company.

Lutsenko added that whatever wrongdoing there might have been at Burisma took place before Hunter Biden joined the company.

“Hunter Biden cannot be responsible for violations of the management of Burisma that took place two years before his arrival,” Lutsenko told the Post.

Also according to the article Lutsenko met with Giuliani to discuss Burisma earlier this year. Looks like Trump has been trying to dig up dirt for a while now....... which IMO brings up another layer of malfeasance. Was this an abuse of power by Trump?

nvm, let's stay on topic.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Excellent OP!!! Well researched, well thought out, well articulated. You rocked it!

My thanks to everyone digging and thinking and expanding on this. I'm not sure what to think yet -- I expect there's far more to this than we even know yet -- but I'm as sure as I can be that this is more about Crowdstrike and the server than it is about Biden or Trump.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Maybe because there's no evidence other than Republicans grasping at straws that Joe Biden did anything wrong. Where as with Trump it's pretty blatant evidence.

The NSA undoubtedly recorded Trumps conversation. They should be able to disclose the actual recording.

Former Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin Responds to Joe Biden’s Insult

"I deeply respect the United States and the American people as Ukraine's strategic and most important partner, who helps us in the hardest times of our country. But I would like to differentiate the American people from people like Joe Biden. I believe that these are slightly different things - Americans and Biden. Biden actually interferes in the internal affairs of other countries and violates their sovereignty, imposing his own will, covering himself saying that he represents the United States. Biden's statement once again confirmed that my dismissal was illegal and influenced by him" Shokin says.

Good luck trying to get any accurate information about this from the Deep State media. Their agenda is clear is saving the swamp. Lies, misdirections and another big waste of time and resources while the same games continue in the background.

The calls and pushing for impeachment based on garbage is drawing the lines in the upcoming civil war. Expect many of the politicians voting for impeachment to be compromised in some way and are doing this to save their own skin and status quo.

Trump made it clear recently at the UN that the days of the globalist are over. The globalists do not like that and are fight back. With Epstein gone the globalists know they need to do something to save their power and corrupt ways.

Viktor Shokin getting blamed for the diamonds while other people had them is just a part of these games to tarnish the messenger, a straw man. With the high price of lawyers I am not surprised some of them have some cash and other goodies as payment of services. There is a lot more to this corruption than a hand full of rocks. Most of it the general public will unlikely never hear. Once the court cases are done we will get the winners version.

How war has been directed by the energy sector and managed by the deep state is more what I am expecting at the bottom of this rabbit hole. All signed off and approved by the deep state. With MH17 getting shot down in October 2015 there is a lot of deep dark nasty stuff going on around these times.

a reply to: TheRedneck

So why the fervor over making sure Joe Biden is insulated from any such investigation?

Because the Democrats are trying to hoodwink the American people.

The Democrats spent 3 years investigating a sitting President..a President who was the victim of an elaborate, planned coup by Obama, Hillary and crooked members of the CIA and FBI.

The Democrats have made a conscious effort, from day one of Trump's presidency, to misdirect blame onto President Trump, which continues to this day.

Meanwhile, Obama and Hillary can go on book tours and spout their anti-Trump rhetoric, completely shielded from consequences for their past misdeeds.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: TheRedneck

Maybe because there's no evidence other than Republicans grasping at straws that Joe Biden did anything wrong. Where as with Trump it's pretty blatant evidence.

The NSA undoubtedly recorded Trumps conversation. They should be able to disclose the actual recording.

You obviously missed the data dump by John Solomon link in another thread last night.

"A large cache of confidential foreign documents have just been leaked implicating Joe Biden, George Soros, Hillary Clinton and Joseph Misfud's collusion and possible criminal activity in Ukraine." 
twitter.com... 

John Solomon's Data Dump

EndTheMadnessNow post link

You can access the links through their post link above. Shokin Witness Statement seems quite damning for Biden and prior administration. I felt that this poster's contribution is quite apt to share in this thread as well, but he deserves the stars for such, not me.

Please check out the data dump and consider why long-standing elected officials from both parties, may want to divert any and all investigations into this matter.

a reply to: dfnj2015

What's with you and the NSA all of a sudden? You've been mentioning them in many of your recent posts.

You sound fairly confident that there's "blatant evidence" on Trump's wrongdoings, but refuse to consider the same can be said about Biden, Obama and Hillary Clinton. Why is that? Are you watching too much CNN or MSNBC? Perhaps reading too many news articles from Liberal rags?

Just remember, the NSA "undoubtedly" has dirt on them too. But then again, you probably don't believe that, because we Trump supporters, just like Republicans, are just "grasping at straws." SMH

It would be amazing if all this was true and Biden got taken out of the running for 2020. It would leave the spot open for a further left candidate that could actually help America. Joe Biden is just a Republican-lite. Not that different from corporatist and lobbyist lover Donald Trump.

Sadly, there isn't anything there. It's already been investigated, and apart from making things up there isn't really anywhere to go with it.

I see the right wing using this as a way to try to attack the left. What you guys need to understand is that it doesn't work. The cult of personality and the "team spirit" that you guys have isn't shared by the left. We don't care. I haven't really seen anyone bending over backwards trying to defend Biden. If he did something wrong, he should be held accountable. Hell, for a lot of us it would be a win if he was forced to drop out.

Trying to use accusations against Joe Biden to justify what Trump has done is the height of stupidity and tone deafness. Most people on the left aren't personally invested in anyone enough to care.

And the simple fact which should be obvious to everyone is that whatever Biden might have done, it doesn't negate what Trump has done. Not to us, not to anyone.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Holy Schnikey Redneck! Thank you for the research and excellent thread! This is mind blowing!

I really hope Trump has nothing to hide so he can blow this wide open.

This is all getting very intense!

I must admit that seeing the Republicans vote 100% to release the whistle blower complaints made me step back and consider the reasoning. Seriously, all votes have seemed to boringly run along partisan division.

It does make wonder if the House did vote to impeach, that the Senate may surprise everyone by actually having a trial.why? Is it possible that this is a trap that the rinos and Dem party are going to step into and drain the swamp unknowingly?

Trump will be able to call upon witnesses who will be under oath. Such a trial would have live media coverage. The world will be watching and listening. It may actually be the only way to pull the plug on this and catch them in the whirlpool of their own deceits. Once they are caught up in a trial, it will be difficult to swim away.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Great OP!

I just for the life of me cannot understand how the Dems can overlook Biden openly admitting he was cancelling the billion dollar aid package if Ukraine didn't fire Shokin who was investigating his son's company!

What else is there to see??????

This is exactly what I was thinking WHY is it not on.... so to speak to be investigating Biden ? Is he ABOVE THE LAW ?

I think what has happened here is they’re in a panic damage control mode for Biden, it’s likely the deepstate only plan was to leak their intel to flip the blame to stop haemorrhaging more voters, this is a fanatic way to keep the braindead hating Trump and keep them from waking up to the fact the corruption is actually the democrats and the deepstate and that the media is fake news, they’ve realised Trumps on the offensive and they’re petrified

a reply to: grey580

Yes, Shokin mentions Yuriy Lutsenko in th e interview link I gave. He served from a couple months after Shokin was fired until just recently. Shokin essentially stated that Lutsenko got his popularity through claiming that he was responsible for the Zlochevsky case.

I'm not sure I believe Lutsenko, though. There is a widespread "common knowledge" that the government of Ukraine was/is corrupt to the extreme and Lutsenko was a part of that government. Zelensky was elected on an anti-corruption ticket (true or perceived), so that indicates that those who elected him believed that the previous administration, including Lutsenko, was corrupt.

Your article does bring up one issue, though:

That prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, had been accused of failing to act in numerous corruption cases, including the investigation into Burisma. In addition to the United States government, the European Union and the International Monetary Fund have demanded that Shokin be replaced.

If the claim that Shokin's corruption concerning the Zlochevsky case was not doing anything, then Biden's demand that Shokin be dismissed worked exactly backward toward Hunter's best interests. Why demand a prosecutor be ousted when ousting him would bring with it the possibility that Hunter's company would be harshly investigated instead of a fake investigation? Sure, Joe Biden could have been acting as a patriot, but wouldn't he at least give his son a heads up that his company was going to be in even greater jeopardy? I know I would, and couldn't blame Biden for doing so... but he apparently didn't.

Also, if the rumors that Zlochevsky paid off a prosecutor in order to return to his company are true, that would make that prosecutor Yuriy Lutsenko.

TheRedneck

Biden's actions in the Ukraine should be properly investigated, there is way too much that went on there to shove it under the rug like it was done before. I feel that there was something wrong done with that whole thing back then, Biden did something definitely not right to help out his son.

I do not know what they should do about it, just that this should be investigated properly. If it is not investigated properly and his name cleared, then Biden should not be allowed to run for President of the USA.