A Barely Coherent Vaping Ban Rant By A Pissed Off Voter

The top story on my news feed tonight is titled State vaping bans spur a backlash from anti-tobacco advocates.

Yup. Massachusetts didn't just ban flavored eliquids as early rhetoric stated was the intention. They banned everything. All the things. I can't find clarification but the wording I have found states that the ban is on "all vaping products" so I tend to suspect that this doesn't just mean eliquids, flavored or not, but possibly the hardware involved as well such as replacement coils and tanks.

The linked article includes the States justification for this move...

The governor's office said that 61 cases of potential lung disease related to vaping have been reported in Massachusetts alone.

Sixty-one people. A four month, emergency, 100% ban that took effect immediately...

Look. I hate that there are sixty one people sick. I honestly do. The last thing I want is for anyone to suffer. Full stop. I'm empathetic to a fault about these things.

The thing is that there's not enough known yet to justify a reaction. The propaganda is ramping up and already muddying the waters on the issue but early reports all suggested that the deaths and illnesses were being caused by prefilled, black market THC pods.

However for the sake of argument, let's take that off the table. Let's play Devil's advocate and say that all of the deaths and illnesses were caused by straight, store bought nicotine eliquid - flavored or otherwise.

It still remains that a massive number of people who vape are former cigarette smokers. Many, including myself, with decades of cigarette use just recently put behind them. Last year, before I quit, I discussed the idea with my cardiologist ( I did not mention vaping at the time ) and he warned me that smoking cessation, if I chose to quit, could cause some potentially dangerous short term health risks as my body adjusted and weened away from the chemicals.

Obviously he was supportive that I wanted to quit. But he was clear that I should do so under doctor's care.

I can't help but wonder if any of these illnesses being cited in the great vaping scare are actually the result of long term smokers quitting their habits? If so, how many?

Another thing I wonder about is how many people got temporarily sick during the switch because they didn't adequately research things and wound up making mistakes like ordering and overusing liquids with extremely high nicotine levels? It's something I was clueless about at first and my initial thought, as a chronic smoker, was that I'd likely need the strongest liquid available. It was only after a lot of reading that I learned that if I used the stronger liquids I'd have to moderate my intake and only use the vaping device sparingly - and that if I wanted to replicate my physical smoking behaviors ( picking a thing up every few minutes out of habit ) that I'd need a liquid with much, much lower nicotine levels.

Learning to use the mods is also a bit of trial and error. Finding the right settings in terms of voltages and temperatures can be a bit tedious at first - so I wonder how many people purchased a vape mod, set it up incorrectly and then wound up in an ER because they poured WAY too much heat into their lungs via user end error and lack of knowledge? Do events such as those wind up in this list of people who got sick?

I have questions. A lot of questions.

Not the least of which being to ask why vaping is being targeted for what is statistically a small number of deaths and illnesses when products like cigarettes and alcohol are not? To be clear, I'm not saying "Ban my thing? Well then they have to ban yours TOO!" - I'm saying "We should not ban any of these things because we are adults and they are basically all in the same category.

Every month or two I read a story about energy drinks being blamed for deaths and illnesses. Why is that any different?

Fast food causes substantial issues in regard to health via salts and fats.

Like I said. I have questions.

My personal views as to why this is happening are pretty simple. I think that the 90 billion dollar a year tobacco industry doesn't like competition and that they've been side-eying the 4 billion dollar and growing vape industry for awhile now. Big Tobacco spends a LOT of money to own lawmakers and I imagine they were beginning to feel like they weren't getting returns on that investment of late.

The whores in Congress are game because vaping isn't currently taxed and there's nothing like a witch hunt to justify a slew of new regulations - regulations that can then be used to slap a massive luxury tax onto things to "pay for" all those new regulations.

Oh and here's a fun "what if"... What if a national ban happens? Well then the tobacco companies could then move in and corner the vape market while it's non-existent and there is no competition. Then they could call their pet Congresspersons and say "Hey, you can lift that ban now guys! Also you can slap taxes on all the things! Oh and here's the kicker... We're going to start selling the EXACT same products you banned, but now we're raising the price on those items by 500% because we CAN!"

That "what if" is less of a thought experiment and more of a "I think this is what's about to happen" kind of thing. I think that, as a person who vapes, the bottle of eliquid I paid $20 for last month will soon become unavailable for awhile but then will reappear... Just for $60 plus a few bucks in luxury taxes.

I'll be angry. I'll think "One of the things that helped me quit was the fact that I'd save money and now vaping costs as much as smoking does???"

Then I'll smile a disgusted smile and think "Oh. Yeah. Probably the entire point" as I decide what to do next. Keep vaping? Go back to smoking? Quit entirely and risk being the most irritated and curmudgeonly old man in America?

Maybe I already am because my gut feeling here is that the catalyst for this witch hunt is that Barron got busted vaping. That's really what I think. My theory is that Melania found out, raged to Donald about it and Trump did what he does - turned it into a full on media circus.

Before anyone types TDS CUCK LULZ - I also saw Rashida Tlaib's little sh*tshow on the subject and she's no better.

I've got enough ass for all of these idiots to kiss.

The whole situation just blows my mind and enrages me.

So... Rant done.

It's for the children... I am sick of that excuse. Kids drink alcohol and die in crashes but we don't ban liquor. All that is going to happen is cigarette companies stock and sales will go up and people will get 7000 chemicals instead of almost only nicotine from e-cigs. Besides money more die from regular cigs so this makes no sense to me...

You said it all so perfectly.
I just have a wee bit to add.
First, one thing I've noticed when switching, cigs are a dry hit, and vaping is more of a wet hit. I had quit smoking for 3 months, then had a near tragedy, and started for a week. Then thought, this is ridiculous, and looked at vaping. Really did some research.
Then, after we switched, I learned that Propylene Glycol, isn't all that great for you, but for me, made my Exzema go off the rails.
That's when I learned to make my own fluid.
So easy, only 3 ingredients, and cheap as hell too.

So at this point, I am very upset that they are banning everything, with little to no facts as to what is causing the problem. But I am wondering how they are going to handle people like me, that buy my own ingredients off the internet?
Are they going to ban the ingredients?
I don't see how they can, since they are used in so many other things.


WTH???? I didn't know you could "Unflag" a thread! I'm sorry, didn't meant to do that.

BTW, I'm in MI, so, sorry we started it, with our idiot governor.

That's exactly what I was going to reply - tobacco industry.

But then I took the time to read through the rest and saw that you drew the same conclusion. There is money behind this, big money.

I don't see much uproar any more about a person in the US dying from alcohol or cigarettes every 15 minutes, or whatever it is up to now.

But a page of names out of millions of people and in comes the cavalry to ban vaping and flavors without any clear evidence. I get that the government has to protect the public, but when you don't see them doing that with other industries equally... then there's money behind it.

I find the situation so bizarre that Im not sure how to approach it.

Maybe other than the expectation this will somehow work out very much in the favor of tobacco companies. Perhaps solely from folks and kids going back, but I expect this is a move motivated by the corporations being unhappy about losing any marketshare whatsoever.

Now, cigarettes are your option if vaping gets a blanket ban and it also sets it up so that FDA approval (if it happens) will conveniently require time and resources that are not available to smaller/upstart companies. Kinda SOP to use the weight of regulations to squeeze out anyone but the "big players." Funny, that..

Thonk of the chaildren!

a reply to: Hefficide

It's like banning needles and syringes because some people use them for heroin.

I agree, it is moronic, short-sighted, and not based on anything like common sense.

When I quit a ten year, two pack a day habit back in the day I did it cold turkey. It was rough for three weeks but I never understood the need for patches or vapes. It was NOT easy, but I worked my way up to it mentally for about six months, then just did it. The mental part was much worse than the physical addiction to nicotine. I was reaching for my shirt pocket after a meal for a year.

Pretty sure the sickness associated with vaping is coming from the black market products that are using oils for THC consumption and not from the regular products with nicotine. It sure helped me get off my cigarette habit. The backlash is mainly due to tax collections as vape products are not taxed like cigarettes in many states.

They lost a major revenue source with the war on big tobacco. Hopefully, they will agree to regulate vape products in a similar fashion to other tabacco products. I hate to see it but there are some benefits to regulation as well as drawbacks like over taxation which will no doubt be part of the solution.

Michigan on the same day they banned vaping products, agreed to allow home delivery of marijuana products. Never will cease to amaze me the mental gymnastics they do between tobacco and marijuana products.

a reply to: Hefficide

The thing is that there's not enough known yet to justify a reaction. The propaganda is ramping up and already muddying the waters on the issue but early reports all suggested that the deaths and illnesses were being caused by prefilled, black market THC pods.

Yep. The crazy thing is, the only reason those dangerous black market THC cartridges exist is because cannabis is illegal. So what do they do? Make regular vapes illegal almost guaranteeing they will be affected by the same problems.

It's all around stupidity.

a reply to: Hefficide

Yep more people have died from smoking in the time it took me to read your rant than have died from vaping total.

Yet they keep letting us smoke.

I got a couple of buddies off burning red marlboros and vaping instead. One guy gets e-liquid custom compounded because he doesn't like polyethylene glycol, gets palm oil carrier maybe. Anyway, HE says the kids mod their vapes to output more heat and concentrate their intake so the can blow big smoke clouds - it's evidently a "thing". I've seen this in some videos in passing but didn't know it was a thing (probably didn't notice the vape just the cloud). Sounds plausible.

As usual it's the kids that have a different slant. Another friend's kids (20s-30s) say it's the synthetic THC sh*t that's causing all these problems. These folks got deep knowledge about druggies & their flavors of the day. Sounds plausible.

What I haven't heard - and it may be because there's no medicinal MJ in Texas - I haven't heard of any dispensary products or extracts being involved. But then again, I expect at least the innuendo, if not an actual attribution will be promoted by the media as well.

ganjoa

a reply to: Hefficide

Maybe I already am because my gut feeling here is that the catalyst for this witch hunt is that Barron got busted vaping. That's really what I think. My theory is that Melania found out, raged to Donald about it and Trump did what he does - turned it into a full on media circus.

I'd say it has more to do with the $1.5 million tobacco lobbyists donated to Donald Trumps election "party".

America’s largest cigarette manufacturers, Reynolds American and Altria Group, donated $1.5m to help the new president celebrate his inauguration. The donations allowed executives to dine and mingle with top administration officials and their families.

Link

I don't see them giving $1.5 million to someone and not expecting anything in return.

a reply to: Hefficide

The problem that occurs all around the world is that people mistakenly believe that the state is acting in their, the peoples, best interests.

Wakey wakey.

The state, generally, only ever enacts legislation so long as it is principally in the best interests of the state. Whether the majority of people benefit from such legislation is, more often than not, coincidental.

As far as I can determine MA is close to being a basket case financially ....... the bankers, I suspect, have passed down their orders.

a reply to: Hefficide

Vaping is just smoking for posers.

If you want your lungs to die, do it the old school way, buy tobacco, cough up your lungs until you're short of breath, swear you'll quit, rinse and repeat.

The funny thing is in my time zone the penalties for growing tobacco are harsher than growing wacky tobaccy, why? because taxes. The government doesn't care as long if you are slowly killing yourself, as long as the coffers keep filling...

a reply to: underwerks

More mental gymnastics to bring the President into it, blame Trump. Big tabacco has donated to both parties and every politician, PERIOD. The war on tabacco has reduced somewhat individuals dependent on nicotine. However, the idiots never took into account how much tax revenues were and are generated from tobacco products.

Not sure what is misunderstood, but vaping products are not taxed like tabacco products. Special taxes are applied to tobacco and alcohol products and generated hundreds of millions for state and local governments. The federal government also enjoys a steady, although reduced stream from the taxation of those products.

The problems are coming because of a new legal product in some states and the enormous amounts of money to be made by making illicit black market products using cheap additives. Marijuana was never meant to be vaped and serious problems have resulted from the intro of those products resulting in the illnesses. It has nothing to do with President Trump, but if it makes some feel better, add it to the list of failed Democrats policies that now become Trumps baggage, he will fix it like the other failed Democrats policies

a reply to: Hefficide
Massachusetts .
The home of the very START of US freedoms .
The starting place , right there in Boston , of the protests on taxation without representation .
They had had enough.
The first shots fired there , at a bridge , that began the fight to sever this country from a tyrannical rule .
Massachusetts.

a reply to: DJMSN

More mental gymnastics to bring the President into it, blame Trump. Big tabacco has donated to both parties and every politician, PERIOD.

I'm curious why you think they would give someone $1.5 million out of the good of their hearts and not expect anything in return..

a reply to: underwerks

How much did they give the Dems?

Always the same nonsense.

Look over here! Over here!

Lol

P

What if we got a nordic girl to tell you it's bad?

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: underwerks

How much did they give the Dems?

Always the same nonsense.

Look over here! Over here!

Lol

P

Nowhere near what they've payed out to Republicans.

Link

You might want to actually look at the numbers before making an accusation.