Have I woken up in the wrong place?

This is a post of which there are many versions, I'll try and make it different so its seen to have a point and not just a rant.

As the title infers I feel like I've been asleep for a period of time and woken up in my flat but the flat has a whole new set of people around it, its become an alien territory.

So some facts, I live on a West London council estate, I live with my wife and my 19yr old daughter and we have lived here around 18yrs now. My wife is from British Guyanese parents and I'm originally from Northern Ireland but moved here because of religious violence towards my parents back in the late 60's. Because of that I'm not religious but my wife and in laws are ordinary Muslims. So we are pretty varied and diverse but just normal down to earth people.

As a mixed race family we still till this day get some idiots who pass comment, stare , make gestures and generally are rude but all this was getting less often. That is until the last 5yrs, now its getting worse and worse where I have to confront people which ended up in my car being vandalised.

So who is doing all this, well we initially got crap from British white and Asian but the white people became less of an issue and it was down to the elderly Asians and some of the youth but now mostly new arrived Asians or Asians of all ages, more and more the younger people. We also get crap from Somali's and the odd younger black person, normally the girls.

But by far its the Asian men and women who are Muslims or extremist Muslims, let me make it very clear, we do not provoke anyone and my understanding of Islam makes me perfectly aware of an ordinary Muslim and the extreme types but its more and more the newer arrivals that prove to be the worst of the bunch. Our local Tesco is in Harrow and its mainly Asian, we get on with the staff really well and some of the regulars of all colours of faiths but the newer Muslim arrivals often make comments and gestures which we fully understand leading to complaints to the store Manager.

But the biggest change we have seen is the area, its lost its British-ness, everywhere is Arabic and full on Muslim dress is the norm with the Burqua seen a lot, even on the very young girls. Its genuinely starting to look and act like a part of Pakistan or Somalia, there's hardly a UK white face and English is hardly heard when walking down the street. We carry on as normal and get on with our next door neighbour who is a Somali and the upstairs Muslim family but other families are some of the rudest people we have ever met with screaming and shouting all the time, appalling refuse habits like throwing food and nappies out of the window of which the council do almost nothing, even after one family above threatened my twice for complaining about the noise where the Police were called, the council still does nothing.

You tend to think "its just my area" but its not, we go to Acton a lot to help my mother in law and its EXACTLY the same if not worse there, at points it feels like an Islamic State, I say that because of the clear support of extremism shown by a lot of the locals, cars with ISIS propaganda on (and yes I do know the difference between Quran verses and ISIS flags). The more I venture across London the more I see area's I knew become like this.

The question is, is this going to get worse with our liberal idiots offering more favour to the extreme types in the hope they will play nice.

My mother in law goes to the Mosque on Friday and she came here in the 50's from British Guyana, she looks around the place and she says "what happened" in respect of how little like the UK she came to it is now. I respect diversity in a sensible form but the UK is inching towards looking like an Islamic high street in many places, especially the big cities. Sure, the countryside villages and little towns are not as bad but trust me, it really is nothing like a free speech loving place any more, I feel I'm in the wrong place with no way to move because of money or available housing with only other places like this in our budget..

There seems to be less 'normal' people of all shapes, colours and religion....

Ah, the timeless “Missionary’s Lament”;

“Why are these people in this new land so different/backward/savage? Why aren’t they ‘civilized’, like we are?”

And the tried and true salve for said lament:

“We shall flood them with Our (Superior!) Culture in manner, food, beliefs, dress and language, and they shall learn the foolishness of their savage ways and become as we are!”

Only THIS time around, it’s you and yours in the role of the beleaguered “savages”.

originally posted by: Bhadhidar
Ah, the timeless “Missionary’s Lament”;

“Why are these people in this new land so different/backward/savage? Why aren’t they ‘civilized’, like we are?”

And the tried and true salve for said lament:

“We shall flood them with Our (Superior!) Culture in manner, food, beliefs, dress and language, and they shall learn the foolishness of their savage ways and become as we are!”

Only THIS time around, it’s you and yours in the role of the beleaguered “savages”.

Pretty inane response. Do you have a point? One that relates to the OP?

a reply to: Mclaneinc

My heart goes out to you. It made me think of the recent documentary “Borderless” which I recommend if for no other reason than you would see that you are not alone.

Personally I would have to find a way to move. With the way things are going in the US (political obsession, unrest, violence) I am working on a plan to become a digital nomad- create revenue streams from work I can do online and live in an RV going around the US camping out.

I don’t know what the answer is or if there is an answer. I do feel like, for myself, I need to work toward and “out”.

a reply to: Mclaneinc

The early immigrants like your in laws probably came for a better life and

were prepared to work for it, and blended in.

The new ones who you see being interviewed when they arrive seem to think

they have arrived to a land of milk and honey.


They are aware of their *human rights* indeed it seems the first words they

learn

They get everything shelter, food and clothing ...... do they need to give back?

do they need to try and fit in? They've got it made.

They are not families..... most of them are young men, who will take what they

want because they feel entitled, and take advantage we are far to liberal.

a reply to: KansasGirl

How about you ? Do you even have a modicum of a reply that relates to the OP ?

As for the issues you face OP, there are no easy answers other than time and perhaps some sort of education campaign. Here in the states, Ellis Island became the gateway of immigration to what is referred to as the American Dream from 1892 to 1954. It now preserves some of that history as a National Park. Arriving at the island led many straight into New York City.

I know many immigrants suffered from discrimination from not only the typical "American" but from many of the other immigrants already established. The result was entire communities or neighborhoods made up of those from similar backgrounds. There are still today, areas colloquially known as "China Town", there are Irish enclaves and many Italian boroughs and many smaller areas sharing space with people from all over, Russian or Jamaican and just the melting pot America is.

It took many years for those new arrivals to be accepted and for the immigrant population to assimilate to their surroundings and most have still retained much of the unique cultures they brought with them, yet blending them into their newly adopted culture. I am sure there were many of the same problems you have experienced present doing the large influxes of different immigrants and still exist today in some areas.

Changes occurred in many parts of New York through the years, everything from the architecture to foods available. Those changes are what today gives those areas the charm and the crowds that enjoy them. It's not charming to suffer the racial discrimination experienced by your family and should never occur. As long as TPTB are determined to initiate global immigration, and place the onus on those already in place to change and adapt to the new comers, it would appear the changes are inevitable.

Hopefully the immigrant population settle in and become more westernized. This is what should be stressed by those in charge, assimilate and leave behind the worst of their own cultures and meld with the established culture already present. Its happening so quickly and TPTB provide excuses for bad behavior that the ones being forced to assimilate are those whom the culture belongs. Time and effort and hopefully the changes will eventually merge together and become cultural gains and not continued pains.

originally posted by: KansasGirl

originally posted by: Bhadhidar
Ah, the timeless “Missionary’s Lament”;

“Why are these people in this new land so different/backward/savage? Why aren’t they ‘civilized’, like we are?”

And the tried and true salve for said lament:

“We shall flood them with Our (Superior!) Culture in manner, food, beliefs, dress and language, and they shall learn the foolishness of their savage ways and become as we are!”

Only THIS time around, it’s you and yours in the role of the beleaguered “savages”.

Pretty inane response. Do you have a point? One that relates to the OP?

Yeah.

What went around has apparently come around, much to the OP’s regret.

Since you do not appear to be familiar with history (or at least, lack the mental elasticity to apply its lessons outside of rote recitation), I would suggest that you review the long colonization history of Britain and is methods vis-a-vis the Indian Raj, for example.

Or I can save you some time and summarize the salient points by stating: “The one-time Colonizers have now become the Colonized”.

Those who fail to learn from History are often doomed to repeat It.

a reply to: Mclaneinc

Dear ATS Readers, Writers,

Greetings Mclaneinc.

It took some "bravado" to write this post, and required "opening up" in a very public forum.... so for that alone you got a Star and Flag from me, and some respect for your brave post.

I will try to answer your observations for you.

Just keep in mind they are as I personally see things from my "focal location"; no way do I claim to know it all, or declare only my viewpoint is valid for you..Ha!

First off I begin with an assumption... you must be doing "something right" if you are honest in that you have been together that long 19 years; and doing so in a mixed race, and mixed religion background! Congratulations, you are ahead of the curve for most marriages longevity, let alone longevity with 2 mixes in the equation!

Your wife and her family must be pretty "laid back" Muslims, as any I know here in Oz, really frown heavily if their daughter decides to marry an "infidel". Another assumption on my part. Forgive me..

I have stated before on many occasion's that "extremism" in any form is very dangerous for a society. It matters not if that extremism is left leaning, or right leaning, religious, or non-religious, etc.

I can tell you with a deep conviction of truth in my words that people, or societies have been increasingly getting groomed, stirred up, enflamed, divided, ethnic groups vilified, pitting different "factions" within a society to fight amongst themselves.

Thankfully, here in Australia, this "disease" of many societies is presently very minimal. (My opinion only) Compared to other nations, we are doing pretty darn good, I reckon. That doesn't mean it isn't lying under the rug, wanting to break out here as well though.

Mate, it is the old "divide and conquer" thing going on. There are many terrible things coming to a head, on many fronts.

Worldwide debt levels for one. The extreme wealth separation gap when looking at the "haves" and the have-nots". The 100th anniversary of the Bolshevik Revolution, and Chinese Revolution 100th in 2011. An attempt to rebirth another world wide revolution is ongoing.

Consider the following quote, and please see after quote for explanation for putting this in my reply.

The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the “agentur” of the “Illuminati” between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam and political Zionism mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…

We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil.

Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view.

This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time.”

The quote is from this url...

Pike's 'three World Wars Letter' 1871

We are deeper into the "provoke a formidable social cataclysm" phase of their evil plans.

Many people say this letter is a "fake"; yet in my opinion, it has been around long enough to see predictions in the letter come true. So if from 1871, or from 1950 or when ever... it seems to mirror, or record recent societal changes and world events.

So, I think, there is "something" to it all and worthy of deep consideration as to WHY all this bad stuff is going on.

Another thing that contributes to the increased hatred and intolerance of others different than you syndrome...is the internet.

People seem anonymous, and can make some very terrible statements that they wouldn't say in public to a persons face. (At least I hope they wouldn't!)

News media, and shapers and shifters of societies have steered public opinion towards a very dark direction.

Sadly, it is history also repeating itself. For some reason, humankind continues to make the same terrible mistakes over and over again.

There are many parallels in todays society compared to some of the darkest times in the past.

To me, (my opinion only); todays world is like mid to late 1930's but only on steroids, compared to 1930's.

And unless there is some mass direction change... I feel another terrible world war is simmering on the stove waiting to boil over.

It will make WW2 seem like childs play...

It is this sickness in societies that you are seeing, and contending with. The intolerance, and rising anger in "everyone" over the stresses our modern world and politics puts on everyone these days.

Don't know if this helps you understand anything, but I hope it helped out somehow, because it was a valid question you asked.

Pravdaseeker

You should move and wake up in a different place

It sounds like it will only get worse

A confusing post possibly for some americans.

We use asian term differently.

a reply to: Mclaneinc

My biggest problem with "diversity" is that the original culture has to become lost and make way for the "diverse" cultures. In the end there will be less cultural diversity if British culture is lost. There will be less ethnic diversity of British ethnicity is lost.

It is just as abhorrent to me for Britain to become not British and not white as it would be for Africa to be not African and not black. America had it right for a while, where we expected immigrants to switch to American culture, and we integrated parts of theirs into our own. The people coming here came here to be American so it was natural for them to do so. Now that integration is considered racist and wrong and more and more people are coming here to send money back home and they have little to no interest in being "American" and they may desire citizenship for the benefits it provides such as petitioning for others to come here to make money to send back home, but not to integrate.

originally posted by: Bhadhidar

Those who fail to learn from History are often doomed to repeat It.

I agree, unfettered immigration to hostile people will never end well. Look at the Native Americans, now we are considered racist if we try to learn that lesson.

Have I woken up in the wrong place?

No.
A different time where politicians are ruled by UN agenda.

a reply to: pravdaseeker australia has one good thing going for it a great law and if you break it they deport you back were you came from if a immigrant

a reply to: Mclaneinc

You married a Muslim , I guess that makes your kids Muslim , sounds like you are in the right place.

You describe yourself as being married to an ordinary Muslim but as the right wingers here remind us the Muslims are going to breed the west out of Christianity,I guess you're just playing your role in making that happen faster eh.

It says here in today's Daily Mail that problems like these will be a thing of the past once Brexit happens...

a reply to: Mclaneinc

The question is, is this going to get worse with our liberal idiots offering more favour to the extreme types in the hope they will play nice.

Oh look a perfect reason to resist gun control. I'm sorry for what your gov.
has done to you. You know the future is bleak for a family like yours, And if
you don't do what it takes to protect your family who else will? If that were
happening to my family here in america? Retaliation would be severe.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Mclaneinc

You married a Muslim , I guess that makes your kids Muslim , sounds like you are in the right place.

Doesn't always follow..... I married a catholic and refused to allow my

children to be brainwashed into that or any other religion.

originally posted by: Bhadhidar
Ah, the timeless “Missionary’s Lament”;

“Why are these people in this new land so different/backward/savage? Why aren’t they ‘civilized’, like we are?”

And the tried and true salve for said lament:

“We shall flood them with Our (Superior!) Culture in manner, food, beliefs, dress and language, and they shall learn the foolishness of their savage ways and become as we are!”

Only THIS time around, it’s you and yours in the role of the beleaguered “savages”.

Found the islamists......

And yes there's a big difference between being a Muslim and being an islamist.....

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Many good points in this thread.
One that you raised, I haven't seen or rarely heard discussed:

more and more people are coming here to send money back home and they have little to no interest in being "American" and they may desire citizenship for the benefits it provides such as petitioning for others to come here to make money to send back home, but not to integrate.

We see the same in Canada. In our province for one example, it was said we had a shortage of nurses, which had locals kind of puzzled on that stat, many working pt with staff cutbacks. The province facilitated a large group of nurses/caregivers from a group of tropical islands. Nice folks they are and earning very good money, they do the honourable thing and send money back home.
This will take time to show up in the various local economies, but I have to think that over time this will inflict damage to local infrastructures.