Trump is raising your taxes today

a reply to: ScepticScot

Tariffs are applied to imports at America's end. Trump has a lot of power as US president but he certainly can't change Chinese taxes.

Which means the importers (who are typically Chinese, btw) pay the tariff. As I explained, that cost may be passed on to American consumers, or it can simply be absorbed by the importer or the wholesaler (which would be China).

As it stands right now, China is absorbing the tariffs because they don't want to lose market share. That is a tax on China.

If an American company could produce the same good at the same price they already would do.

So you are telling me that the cost to produce iron foil in the US is over 250 times the cost to produce it in China, at lower quality here?

Sorry, not buying that. If you are, I got a bridge to sell you. 20% off this week only, so act now!

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: ScepticScot

Tariffs are applied to imports at America's end. Trump has a lot of power as US president but he certainly can't change Chinese taxes.

Which means the importers (who are typically Chinese, btw) pay the tariff. As I explained, that cost may be passed on to American consumers, or it can simply be absorbed by the importer or the wholesaler (which would be China).

As it stands right now, China is absorbing the tariffs because they don't want to lose market share. That is a tax on China.

If an American company could produce the same good at the same price they already would do.

So you are telling me that the cost to produce iron foil in the US is over 250 times the cost to produce it in China, at lower quality here?

Sorry, not buying that. If you are, I got a bridge to sell you. 20% off this week only, so act now!

TheRedneck

Short term they might absorb the costs but that is clearly an unsustainable position.

I didn't make any comment about costs to produce iron foil. But if goods are being produced in China and imported to the US it isn't because people prefer a made in China label. It's because they can produce the goods cheaper.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Tariffs are a tax.

Tariffs are tariffs and taxes are taxes. There is a distinction, ergo two different words. The result on some consumers may be similar in as much as they pay more for a specific item.

Tariffs in the US are rising today.

Tariffs (not taxes) on some goods (not everything across the board) coming into the US are rising today.

Trump has raised your taxes today.

This is premised on two statements which are misleading and is inaccurate itself. In addition, the Executive branch cannot raise taxes, only the Legislative branch can do that.

But, as you point out, there are many factors influencing the price of an item. The price may include taxes and tariffs. It may also includes labor costs, manufacturing costs, shipping costs, etc. None of that "raises my taxes" if I do not purchase that item. Might there be some secondary and tertiary general economic effects down the road which may separate me and my earnings? Sure.

IMHO, Americans are too addicted to cheap crap. Most of that cheap crap comes from China. Supply and demand. If this improves that condition then all the better. The USA cannot survive with outsourcing all it's manufacturing. Sorry if that derails a little bit.

The best thing for our environment is to raise prices of all the junk that comes out of china. If prices go up, people will not buy all the unnecessary things that increase pollution world wide.

Trump is actually doing more to deter global warming with his tarriffs than the France global carbon BS is doing. If factories move back here, they have much more stringent ecological standards than in China too. China polution goes all over the world, the winds carry it over to the West coast, the ocean water is being filled with toxins because of their poorer eco standards.

And Trump isn't even trying to fix the atmosphere, he has no clue that he is being eco-friendly.

originally posted by: ABNARTY
a reply to: ScepticScot

Tariffs are a tax.

Tariffs are tariffs and taxes are taxes. There is a distinction, ergo two different words. The result on some consumers may be similar in as much as they pay more for a specific item.

Tariffs in the US are rising today.

Tariffs (not taxes) on some goods (not everything across the board) coming into the US are rising today.

Trump has raised your taxes today.

This is premised on two statements which are misleading and is inaccurate itself. In addition, the Executive branch cannot raise taxes, only the Legislative branch can do that.

But, as you point out, there are many factors influencing the price of an item. The price may include taxes and tariffs. It may also includes labor costs, manufacturing costs, shipping costs, etc. None of that "raises my taxes" if I do not purchase that item. Might there be some secondary and tertiary general economic effects down the road which may separate me and my earnings? Sure.

IMHO, Americans are too addicted to cheap crap. Most of that cheap crap comes from China. Supply and demand. If this improves that condition then all the better. The USA cannot survive with outsourcing all it's manufacturing. Sorry if that derails a little bit.

Tariffs are a type of tax. Doesn't change its still a tax.

No tax increase or decrease, with possible exception of a poll tax, effects everyone equally or even at all. Doesn't mean it isn't a tax rise

Don't disagree with your last point but this doesn't really do anything to address that problem. It changes where you buy and how much you pay for the same cheap crap.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Got it. My bad. Taxes are tariffs and tariffs are taxes. The President is the Congress and the Congress is the President.

If I don't but gasoline and walk everywhere I still pay gasoline tax as all taxes are taxes for everyone. Makes sense.

I feel silly.

originally posted by: ABNARTY
a reply to: ScepticScot

Got it. My bad. Taxes are tariffs and tariffs are taxes. The President is the Congress and the Congress is the President.

If I don't but gasoline and walk everywhere I still pay gasoline tax as all taxes are taxes for everyone. Makes sense.

I feel silly.

Tariffs are a form of taxation.

These tariffs have been raised by the President.

Not complicated.

a reply to: 727Sky

Fox is bad too. I switched over to protonmail instead of yahoo mail. They bombard you constantly with news garbage.

People should stop giving fox, msnbc, the new york times, cnn, ect... any views. Simply going over to fox because cnn sucks only propels this corporate shill news paradigm.

I wonder if trump's tariffs will actually work. I think i read somewhere that tariffs have hardly ever accomplished their goals in the past.

I have a feeling Trump is gambling on these tariffs paying off.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Short term they might absorb the costs but that is clearly an unsustainable position.

Do I detect a spark of comprehension?

It's not sustainable and that is the whole point. China cannot keep absorbing these extra costs, but they also cannot afford to lose market share. So what can they do? They can stop the tariffs on our imports to China! They can stop manipulating their currency to keep our people from competing. They can stop ignoring intellectual property rights.

That's why the tariffs are there: to force an even playing field.

China has had tariffs on American imports for decades, forcing our prices to be higher than they should be in China. China regularly manipulates its own currency (against international policies) to make their products appear cheaper than they really are and drive out competition in other countries. And China regularly ignores US and international intellectual property rights, but strictly enforces theirs. That is not free trade, and it is not fair to the US. Tariffs are the best tool we have to force them to play by the rules.

I didn't make any comment about costs to produce iron foil.

No, I did. Did you not read my post before replying to it?

I showed links to two essentially identical products. One was made in China and cost 4.2% of a similar product in the US which was 1/10 the quantity, and the Chinese product was higher quality. You stated that if the US could lower prices, they would. So I want to now why you think it costs 250 times more to produce a product in the US than in China and at a lower quality?

But if goods are being produced in China and imported to the US it isn't because people prefer a made in China label. It's because they can produce the goods cheaper.

I never claimed that consumers buy from China out of national preference. I do it out of necessity due to overpricing in the US; I would prefer (and actually spend a little more) to buy US products. However, the cost difference is not due solely to China being more capable of producing products at a lower price. It is also due to the conditions I mentioned above: currency manipulation and apathy toward international intellectual property rights.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: blueman12
I wonder if trump's tariffs will actually work. I think i read somewhere that tariffs have hardly ever accomplished their goals in the past.

I have a feeling Trump is gambling on these tariffs paying off.

Historically they have quite frequently backfired, at least politically speaking. Tariff Reform helped to bring down the Balfour Government in the UK in 1905.
Anyway (history lesson aside), making things more expensive in the USA is a great way of getting people to not buy them, which damages both sides. Worse, they can reduce economic activity, which is not a good thing given that the USA could be about to enter recession. We're not there yet, but globally there's a lot of worry over this.

originally posted by: blueman12
I wonder if trump's tariffs will actually work. I think i read somewhere that tariffs have hardly ever accomplished their goals in the past.

I have a feeling Trump is gambling on these tariffs paying off.

Well trump is a gambler who owned casinos. Perhaps his tariffs will share the same fate.

www.businessinsider.com...

a reply to: scraedtosleep

Or live in Washington and pick them for almost free...

I have some friends that are cherry growers and some years they will not pick because the cost to pick, process, ship etc is too high for what they are going for on the market. Cherries is a hard crop to manage.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: ScepticScot

Short term they might absorb the costs but that is clearly an unsustainable position.

Do I detect a spark of comprehension?

It's not sustainable and that is the whole point. China cannot keep absorbing these extra costs, but they also cannot afford to lose market share. So what can they do? They can stop the tariffs on our imports to China! They can stop manipulating their currency to keep our people from competing. They can stop ignoring intellectual property rights.

That's why the tariffs are there: to force an even playing field.

China has had tariffs on American imports for decades, forcing our prices to be higher than they should be in China. China regularly manipulates its own currency (against international policies) to make their products appear cheaper than they really are and drive out competition in other countries. And China regularly ignores US and international intellectual property rights, but strictly enforces theirs. That is not free trade, and it is not fair to the US. Tariffs are the best tool we have to force them to play by the rules.

I didn't make any comment about costs to produce iron foil.

No, I did. Did you not read my post before replying to it?

I showed links to two essentially identical products. One was made in China and cost 4.2% of a similar product in the US which was 1/10 the quantity, and the Chinese product was higher quality. You stated that if the US could lower prices, they would. So I want to now why you think it costs 250 times more to produce a product in the US than in China and at a lower quality?

But if goods are being produced in China and imported to the US it isn't because people prefer a made in China label. It's because they can produce the goods cheaper.

I never claimed that consumers buy from China out of national preference. I do it out of necessity due to overpricing in the US; I would prefer (and actually spend a little more) to buy US products. However, the cost difference is not due solely to China being more capable of producing products at a lower price. It is also due to the conditions I mentioned above: currency manipulation and apathy toward international intellectual property rights.

TheRedneck

The arguments for or against tariffs are completely different from the argument that raising tariffs isn't raising taxes.

If you want to do a thread on Trumps strategy behind the tariffs feel free, I will even participate but I have no interest in another off topic chase round a thread where you consistently misrepresent what people are saying and make personal attacks.

I equally have no interest in discussing relative production costs of foil as it is likewise off topic and also I suspect extremely boring.

However if you are going to ask the question 'are you claiming' it should at least have some relevance to something I have actually claimed.

Tarrifs are a firm of taxation and this president has raised them. That is neither automatically a good or a bad thing but claiming its not true is denying reality.

I visited Tuscon recently. What a fantastic city and surrounding area! Have to say, the cost of living there vs Boston/New England, is like getting a doubling raise. If I could only have the same job there than I have here... Just goes to prove that it is all relative to what you have been used to.

True.... What was the cost to americans when they sent us toxic sheetrock...or the lead thats in most of their products...just our health.. But dont worry it was cheaper...FOOLS.a reply to: TheRedneck

a reply to: olaru12

Haha . O no!

a reply to: musicismagic

49 cents a pound for bing cherries?

When was the last time you were in the states?
$5.00 a lb is about average.

a reply to: scraedtosleep
4.99 at Kroger.

a reply to: scrounger

Tell it to the farmers who are all on relief now.