NEWS: Russian Defence Chief - No Defence Will Stop New Russian Nukes

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov stated on Tuesday that Russia intends to develop missiles as early as November this year that will be be able to penetrate any defense system. The statement comes hot on the heels of internal directives from President Putin in December encouraging the production of new strategic missile systems.



Despite the confident nature of these statements by the Russian defense chief, there will inevitably be much speculation as to whether or not the research and development arm of the Russian military will be actually be able to produce such a system. One could reasonably assume that Russian intelligence's knowledge of the National Missile Defense system and the specific technologies behind it would be limited, particularly since the NMD is itself still in the development stage. If you don't know how a defense or detection system works, it is difficult to generate counter-measures against it.

Perhaps of greater significance than Russia's ability or inability to develop such a system is the obviousness of who is the intended audience for the remarks. President Bush's December 2001 declaration of U.S withdrawal from the ABM Treaty has been a catalyst for tension between the two nuclear powers.

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[edit on 2005/3/4 by wecomeinpeace]

[edit on 2005/3/4 by wecomeinpeace]

Its all a con. Putin is working just as close with Bush as ever and creating the illusion of renewed tensions between the old enemies serves both their agendas.

Bush gets a unifying threat thats much more tangible than a faceless, locationless terrorist cell.

Putin gets to crack down on his lawless citizens using the rising American threat as a pretext.

Originally posted by subz
Its all a con. Putin is working just as close with Bush as ever and creating the illusion of renewed tensions between the old enemies serves both their agendas.

Indeed it may be a con, it may not be. Either way, its a situation which will enivitably claim the lifes of billions. The nuclear powers should be putting their efforts in disarmament of nuclear weapons, instead of creating new ones which are neither needed or wanted. Evil.

Lets all go back a few years to grade school..

what happens in the schoolyard when someone says "I know Karate!" ??
Everyone wants to test that person out, ... see how tough they really are...
it's becoming quiet annoying how immature the world is.. we moved from a small playground to a big one... we never grew up... it's pathetic..

Is it really that they intend to create an undetectable/undefeatble missile system or is possible they are using this as rhetoric to openly declare they are against us?

I wonder about the REAL attitude Putin had about Dubya's comments of 2 weeks ago right before he went and met with Putin...

I wonder about the double entendre most of all. There is a very different dialogue in the world today and it's getting hard to decipher.

m...

And what happens when you don't learn Karate-do and everyone else in your schoolyard does?.... You become the target of bullies....

It is a shame that we as a human race haven't learnt how to get past this, but it is a fact that has followed us and haunted us ever since the early history of mankind.

Springer, i really think that the Kremlin has not changed at all, even thou they did a good job of making the world believe they did. The Kremlin was pretty much just looking for new ways to disarm the west and to use capitalism so that their own system wouldn't completly collapse.

Some people are going to say that the communist system did collapse in Russia...but how can it be so when every president in Russia was pretty much selected by the previous president and pretty much the same group of people who were in power in the U.S.S.R. are still in power today...

The Russians did not start making these claims just now that president Bush is in power, nor in his previous term, they have been talking about this Russian wonder weapon for quite a while and have been building up their military slowly but surely.

This shows their willingness to continue arming Russia despite their claims that they want to disarm. Even under Clinton the Russians and the Chinese did not slow down their arms race. On the contrary, under Clinton at least the Chinese were able to double the pace of their arms race since they were able to buy, and steal American military secrets.

[edit on 4-3-2005 by Muaddib]

Mauddib, good points all...

I guess I was trying to say that maybe Putin is "coming out". In other words, they have had an agenda all along and now are openly (well sort of openly) "declaring" their stance.

You probably know alot m,ore about it than I do but I see alot of general wierdness going on and I don't beleive in coincidence.

m...

the only thing i can think is that the Russians have either developed a stelth system for their reentry vehicles or somekind of hypervelocity booster for the missiles.

Why worry ? After all isn't missile shield according to Bush intented to protect against rogue states that don't believe in MAD, surely Russians have been believing the past 50 years in MAD ?

Now they can stop complaining about Bush missileshield, as they claim to have ways of defeating it anyway


[edit on 4-3-2005 by Countermeasures]

I think this new Russian technology, if it's even been developed in any stage yet, is a ballistic missile that is capable of changing direction in midflight and use maneuvers to out-run anything fired at it. It very well could also have counter-measures to distract heat-seeking missiles that are fired at it.

But this idea of Russia claiming that there is no defense and there won't ever be a defense against this missile is absurd. Basically every weapon ever developed that was once thought to be unstoppable has since met is match. If there truly is no defense against this Russian technology, and if they really are capable of building it, it will only be a matter of time before we develope the ability to stop it.

I'm not exactly sure why Russia even cares so much about our Missile Defense System when they know very well that we'll never be capable of stopping all the missiles, from land, air and sea, that they could fire at us.

This very well could be Putin's attempt to show that Russia is still a superpower on the scale of the US. When its all said and done, both US and Russian nuclear defense will still come down to mutually assured destruction (MAD).

Interesting theories about the arms race and the disolvement of the USSR, though. You made some very good points about Russia attempting to have us change our military. If this is true, then it's working quite well as we're changing our conventional forces to face terrorists rather than a full-scale war against another super power.

UHHH AHHH the new russian teleporting missle... wow... geeee
i'm a quakin in my boots...
yeah, MAD should serve us well for another 50 years or so

so nice of the USA to buy up all the old soviet missles so that they could upgrade...

yeah... russias still playing the same game as the Soviets...
are we sure they lost the cold war?

I think the stakes are too high for Russia to be bluffing it has what it says it does. I also can't hep but wonder what the N. Koreans are thinking of Putins respose. MAD has served the U.S. and Russia well for the past 50 or so years. My guess would be the Russians have a missle system in early development that just might rival what the U.S. has in current stockpiles. It may be able to have a an eloberate system for ele. countermeasures. Who knows what they are on the brink of in their underfunded R.&D. programs. I do have to agree with Rasputin13. If it can be built it can be a defense built for it. I don't think Bush is too worried with Russia as we can hold both in check. The missle sheild Bush has been touting was I think to avoid threats from N.Korea and not the Kremlin. Anyway, our defense system of this countermeasure has been proved on more than 3-4 occasions to fail. Personally, I would like to get some type of relative saftey for my tax dollars and Im sure that many would also agree with that. I am taken back a few months ago with the sucessfull flight tests NASA concluded with the Hyperjet Ramjet vehicle. It could be that the Russians have made great strides in that technology while Bush has been blindely leading us down the road of doom with the VERY,VERY FLAWED MISSLE DEFENSE SYSTEM!

.
.
So we've got nukes that can take out the planet, and nano-weapons to clean up the leftovers. Plus a bunch of emotionally retarded idiots playing "Nyanyanya nya nyanya. Mine's bigger than yours is."

No kidding, "Red Alert!"



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There is only one thing I find comforting about the influence of the big companies on the usa government, and that is that they wouldl never allow Bush to start WW3, as that would be bad for their bussiness immediately.

Currently, while the war in iraq has costed the american public some money, Exxon and Shell have posted record earnings, despite wars, despite peakoil etc etc....

Naturally their is some neocon ideology at work as well, but there agenda must be carefully synchronised with those of the multinationals, for example, if Exxon would think invasion of Iran is bad for the bussiness, the neocons can stand on their head but it won't happen.

Just who is currently really in charge in Washington , God or the Company ?

whats next daddy? counter missle-UFOs?
they've done it b4 lol

This missile system uses frequently course switching to prevent detection missile, it's target and avoid anti-missile systems, also missile flyes at great speed(it reaches other side of the planet in 5 minutes ) and has multiple warheads, possibly it has more abilities(not much information available), and it is not on development stage, it's on production stage. US tries to create anti-ballistic missile shield(such shield already covers main russian cities and military objects), such systems detect missile on orbit when missile enters/leaves atmosphere(on this stage missile can be detected because it reflects sunlight).

I don't think that you have to worry about it, it just keeps parity between countries for another 50 years. If US didn't break Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty you'd probably save billions of dollars, sometimes you too paranoid about "rogue" states, diplomacy is a powerful weapon, but you prefer to develop non-working missile shield than to use it. Today you are still fighting Cold War trying to save your superpower status, but now you have to fight with half of the world that uses russian technologies/weapons and you alienate nations, who was your friends in Cold War, let's see who wins, oh, we already see what your politics did to your country, enjoy it and keep thinking in old categories, btw Russia is not communist and we have freedoms and we are not lawless. Just stop making nonsense

The Russians did not start making these claims just now that president Bush is in power, nor in his previous term, they have been talking about this Russian wonder weapon for quite a while and have been building up their military slowly but surely.

This shows their willingness to continue arming Russia despite their claims that they want to disarm.

Why we should stop development of new weapons when US develops them, sorry, we have tech, production facilities, institutes, scientists working on military technologies. Yes, Cold War continues, world depends on it, maybe it ends one day, but it will be a day when last superpowers stop to exists.

P.S. Sorry for broken language, I'm too busy to learn English well.

Russia is still the same Russia it has always been. And I don't mean that they are still communists. They are still *Russians*. The Russian Federation still occupies the same physical geographical location that the Russian empire did. It has the same problems... it's cold a lot of the time, they don't have access to a warm water port, they have borders with unstable countries. Forget the communists, Russia wants to be a world player just like the did in the time of Peter the Great. It's got nothing to do with the internal political system. It has to do with Great Power politics.

Everyone seems to be questioning the feasibility of this new ICBM that can out do the Missile Shield, but i don't see anyone questioning the capabilites, or lack of there of, of the the BMD.

Let's not forget that Bush got out of the ABM treaty and is still wanting to get those oh so lovely mini-nukes.

That being said, as far as i can tell both sides are full of it, spending billions on their respective sword and shield, neither of which will work as the try to pull a bluff on the world. The sad part is that this Cold War nostalgia will just lead to other Nuclear nations into building up their nuclear arsenals.

The "con" is, the Cold war ended prematurely, the Soviet Union was never destroyed. It evolved. Now it feels it can reveal more of itself. Especially since the media nas convinced all the sheeple that America is the only true enemy. After all, the USSR *never* used propaganda to manipulate opinion, so obviously they wouldn't have been resorting to it now...

The "new" missile system has been introduced, rumored, and tested for years. It was referred to as "Squall". The supercavitating torpedo. An underwater cruise missle capable of travelling underwater at over Mach 1 (at sea level ) before popping up and heading to shore. The Airborne Laser, SDI, and any air based interceptor system like the Patriot is totally ineffective. Just like Putin describes.

What do you think really happened to the Kursk? Why do you think the Russians were so extremely adamant about keeping *all* nations' rescue teams at bay? But not for long, just long enough for everyone to be dead, and cleanup to be handled. Squall prototypes were rumored to be powered by a solid rocket booster, and reach obscene speeds by travelling through a self-generated air bubble. If Squall's booster fired but the bubble did not form, or failed the torpedo would hit a wall of water that would be as harder than steel. The compressed bubble supply and fuel would have detonated violently. Enough to take such a nice, clean bite out of the forward bay of the Kursk.

They've had plenty of time to work out the bugs. Radar (travelling at lightspeed) cannot detect them underwater. Sonar can hear them coming, but only at the speed sound propogates through water. If the device can exceed that, then it will be past a sonobuoy before it registers. When the device breaches the surface, it's in DC, New York, LA, Seattle, in *seconds*. We couldn't respond to anything that fast.