Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

a reply to: Arbitrageur


Great link. I read this guy during the time Lazar's new doc came out.
This guy is a physicist who destroys Lazar’s nonsense and exposes him on many levels.

www.otherhand.org...

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Arbitrageur


Great link. I read this guy during the time Lazar's new doc came out.
This guy is a physicist who destroys Lazar’s nonsense and exposes him on many levels.

www.otherhand.org...

Not really. It's ironic how this guy whom you claim "destroys" Lazar uses the EXACT same method Lazar uses for the context of his story. Neither side has any proof yet you choose to believe the one that suits your bias. BTW...this guy is now the 4th or 5th alternate version of Lazar I've heard now. It gets better and better the more of these "other" people in the know come out with WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. LOL.

But I did enjoy his "proton beam" theory regarding Lazar's knowing about the 3 consecutive tests each Wednesday for 3 weeks. I never realized proton beams generated an actual physical object in the sky.

Oh yeah...that's right....they don't.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Maybe you can let A51Watcher know his expertise in image analysis of the Lazar recording is really a proton beam.

going over topics endlessly, particularly ones that are Unfalsifiable is like me saying;

"I've walked on the moon, I cant prove it but you cant disprove it either, lets talk endlessly about whether I have or not"

It's mental masturbation at best and no progress will be made either way.

a reply to: pigsy2400

You are full of good wisdom today Pigs.

I thought this was an interesting paragraph from the new Whitley Strieber book A New World about TTSA:

Billionaire Robert Bigelow, who has worked with elements of the US government who present a hostile face to the visitors, commented on 60 Minutes on May 28, 2017 that he had experienced a face-to-face confrontation with them. It was not a pleasant experience for him. Similarly, two members of the board of directors of the To The Stars Academy, an organization devoted in substantial part to aggression against the visitors, have had terrifying direct experiences in their lives. One of these led to a family tragedy. The other, fortunately, was only frightening. This organization, which has a rock-and-roll personality as its public facing presence in order to gain easy access to the media, is dedicated to moving the struggle to create weapons that might be effective against the visitors into a more open context in the scientific community, in the hope that some sort of breakthrough can be achieved. Over all the generations of effort that have been expended behind the wall of classification, this has not been a successful effort.

I assume one of the board members he is talking about is Semivan (the merely frightening experience) but who is the other tragic one?

Strieber's book is pretty out there generally but he seems to think that TTSA is a group of true believers seeking a military solution to a real threat and not just a cynical marketing scheme. Strieber is more in the "there is no threat and this phenomenon is here to save us" camp.

a reply to: 1point92AU

Bias?

I biased towards facts. I’ve known about Lazar for years and know about his lies, for instance, on his FAKE university degrees. And many other problems with his story.

a reply to: pigsy2400

Especially when the topic discussed, Bob Lazar, is not really relevant in this thread. Other than his brush with Bigelow. Who promptly dispensed with his services for conning him which is covered in a number of threads about the man.

Moving on............

In relation to ECM (Electronic Counter Measures) there is something very weird going on in the port of Shanghai.

On a sultry summer night in July 2018, the MV Manukai was arriving at the port of Shanghai, near the mouth of the Huangpu River....As the crew carefully maneuvered the 700-foot ship through the world’s busiest port, its captain watched his navigation screens closely. Every few seconds, these devices broadcast their identity, position, course, and speed and display from other ships in the area.. The position data for those transponders comes from GPS satellites....

According to the Manukai’s screens, another ship was steaming up the same channel....Suddenly, the other ship disappeared from the AIS display. A few minutes later, the screen showed the other ship back at the dock. Then it was in the channel and moving again, then back at the dock, then gone once more.

Eventually, mystified, the captain picked up his binoculars and scanned the dockside. The other ship had been stationary at the dock the entire time.

Now, new research and previously unseen data show that the Manukai, and thousands of other vessels in Shanghai over the last year, are falling victim to a mysterious new weapon that is able to spoof GPS systems in a way never seen before.

....China has about as many bicycles as the rest of the world combined, with nearly 10 million in Shanghai alone. Some of the city’s cyclists use smartphone fitness apps to track their rides. One in particular, Strava, shares a global heat map of anonymized activities from the previous two years. Zooming in to Shanghai, C4ADS analysts could see.... spoofing attacks were affecting all GPS devices, not just those on ships.

Ghost ships, crop circles, and soft gold: A GPS mystery in Shanghai A sophisticated new electronic warfare system is being used at the world’s busiest port. But is it sand thieves or the Chinese state behind it?

If you they spoof GPS co-ordinates of large boats and bicycles then perhaps someone can do it with tic-tacs?

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: 1point92AU

Bias?

I biased towards facts. I’ve known about Lazar for years and know about his lies, for instance, on his FAKE university degrees. And many other problems with his story.

Deflect and avoid the context of my statement all you want but it doesn't erase the fact that your physicist who "destroys" Lazar presents absolutely ZERO evidence to back his claims on WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. LOL.

I don't mind a person not believing another person's story. I just find it very hypocritical you don't require the same level of proof from your alternate story guy as you do of Lazar.

Cognitive bias.

originally posted by: coursecatalog

I assume one of the board members he is talking about is Semivan (the merely frightening experience) but who is the other tragic one?

Yes, Semivan's 'bedroom visitation' ticks the 'frightening' box, but who on earth (or off it) had a "tragic" experience?

That can be today's quiz!

Strieber's book is pretty out there generally but he seems to think that TTSA is a group of true believers seeking a military solution to a real threat and not just a cynical marketing scheme. Strieber is more in the "there is no threat and this phenomenon is here to save us" camp.

Like many, I only ever read 'Communion' a very long time ago, but has Strieber since revised his stance and declared his "Visitors" as being extraterrestrial in origin? He was always extremely careful to stress that his experience was not ET-related, the term 'Visitors' used in terms of his personal interaction with them rather than them 'visiting the planet Earth'.

In other words, military solutions would be useless, especially if Strieber's friends only exist within the realm of consciousness. But I haven't kept up with Strieber's opinions since the late-80s, so I feel well out of that particular loop.

originally posted by: 1point92AU
... your physicist who "destroys" Lazar presents absolutely ZERO evidence to back his claims on WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. LOL.

Nobody has ANY evidence to back either side of this argument in terms of what went on in S4. If indeed ANYTHING anomalous went on there. As mentioned previously, it is impossible to deal with an unfalsifiable claim such as Lazar's.

If someone wants to believe him, great, they can fill their boots. Wanna disbelieve him? Fine, more boots to fill. In the end, everybody is shadow-boxing over a STORY that could just as easily have been about Lazar declaring himself the Son Of God - also unfalsifiable.

Personally I think it was all a jolly jape that got well out of hand, constructed from the eccentric imagination of Lazar's best mate John Lear (who himself even declared on ATS that everything he says is fiction), Bob launching himself into the fairy-tale as soon as Lear first contacted his other mate George Knapp to offer a last-minute replacement interview in 1989. I very much doubt that George was 'in on it', but it definitely made him the news media's go-to 'UFO guy'.

a reply to: 1point92AU


I disagree. And beyond this guy, there's much proof Lazar is out of it.

We'll agree to disagree and move on. If you want to defend him there are threads about him.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: 1point92AU


I disagree. And beyond this guy, there's much proof Lazar is out of it.

We'll agree to disagree and move on. If you want to defend him there are threads about him.

Jeez man you guys lack comprehension. I'm not defending Lazar with regards to this discussion. Simply pointing out how hypocritical the Lazar haters are. It's simple. The haters say "Lazar is a liar because he has no "proof"....then they turn around and promote one of many alternate stories about "what really happened" by using the same lack of proof argument.

Get it?

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: zazzafrazz



Remember, despite the mythology, not much or nothing strange happened on the ranch until the Shermans arrived . Certainly not any more than any other place in the world. Check it for yourselves by searching the internet. Things happened in Utah in the past. But it's a big place.

In the late 1980s/early 1990s - Bob Bigelow, began funding studies into the paranormal. Perhaps driven by the loss of his son. The Skinwalker Ranch was owned by the Myers family for nearly a century until 1994.

In 1994 the Shermans moved into Skinwalker Ranch. All the scary stories come mainly from them and are completely anecdotal. A few paranormal researchers were originally told strange tales. However someone convinced Bob Bigelow to buy it not long after. Possibly his assembled team of alphabet soup agents convinced him?

In 1996 Bigelow purchased the ranch. Strangely scared Tom Sherman stayed on as a well paid ranch manager and was silenced with a Bigelow kiss (or NDA). Was he therefore a paid stooge?

Later in 1996 - NIDS is set up and begins so called studies on the ranch. But all we have are some "stories" seeded into the local press. A credulous multi-millionaire/billionaire surrounded by intel people and then 8 years of studies that appear to be big on stories and very low on actual proof. Maybe Big Bob eventually felt duped by these people. Especially after Big Eric Davis tried to tell him the already debunked video of an alien autopsy was real?

It's now 2004. NIDS has been wound down to absolutely nothing after a couple of years and little in the way of evidence collected.

So when did Bigelow stop searching for Portals, Bigfoot and UFOs and get into designing and building military applications for space hardware? The timing is almost too coincidental..

I think this is the point he stopped being gullible Bob and wanted something in return.

It's late autumn of 2004. While out in the Pacific Ocean the crews of the US Navy are detecting tic-tacs on radar....Including Lt. Douglas "Cheeks" Kurth...Bob Bigelow files a patent..

In late 2004, right about the time that some U.S. lawmakers publicly unveiled a previously classified $9.5 billion program to build satellites that orbit the Earth undetected from the ground, Robert Bigelow,.. submitted a patent application for a satellite that proposed to do just that.

Bigelow’s patent, filed in November 2004 and approved a year later, follows a dozen or so previously filed inventions back to the early 1960s. Each outlined methods that could reduce or eliminate the optical and radar signatures that could be used to track, identify and determine the orbital parameters of a satellite from the ground...

.....This could include using radar absorbing materials and/or geometrics to reflect radar waves at angles that make detection of the craft difficult.” The patent goes on to say that shell could be “colored as to make visual detection more difficult.

Original Source

That was the point old Bob became more "defensive" in his relationships.

Feb 4th 2007 - TheFinalTheory leaks an alleged UFO video now known as the FLIR1 video

Dec 2007 Douglas "Cheeks" Kurth leaves the Navy and becomes Program Manager for Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies [BAASS]. The same year Zondo's predecessor James Lacatski is reported to have visited Skinwalker Ranch.

Jan 2008 - BAASS is officially registered as a new company. Doug Kurths duties appear to be in line with managing what was also going on at Skinwalker Ranch.

Aug 2008 - US Military issue official tenders for the AAWSAP contract. BASS is the sole bidder. #cough#

Feb 2009 - Bigelow's SIP contract with MUFON allows him to clean out their case database.

2012 - BAASS loses funding from original contract and the AAWSAP/AATIP project ceases in all but name.

Mar 2015 - Fightersweep confirms details of the Nimitz incident and names Fravor and Kurth in the article.

Feb 2018 - Knapp leaks supposed executive summary of Nimitz incident but redacts Kurth's name.

OK...

There's loads of other things happened in between and since.

But now we have security guards employed by BAASS claiming they were the real test subjects at the ranch. Bear in mind they may well have their own agenda too. As does the Pentagon, TTSA and Bigelow.

Given that the UFO community is ignored and left to fight amongst itself I consider that the motives of all these people is not to disclose the existence of an extra-terrestrial presence. Especially as it is exclusively "American".

From the outside it all looks very messy. No other nation appears to operate matters of national security like this.

But like I've said before about Argo. If all you knew back in 1979 that the CIA had set up a film company called Studio Six that appeared to be filming a sci-fi movie called Argo. How would you even begin to see the real plan to free the escaped diplomats from Iran holed up in the Canadian Embassy?

I can #speculate# that Bigelow was first groomed and used by the boys from the National Security State to create a testing ground for their toys at the ranch. Leaving him thinking it was to study paranormal phenomena. Maybe it even involved something we don't quite understand today anyway. But he's not a fool and obviously didn't like being taken for one. So they cut him a deal so he could launch his own space business. That's when the upstanding Senator Reid was brought in to help. That would be just speculation of course.

End thread.

Addendum:
Add your "Tested by Germans, Made in America" stamp
- Old Rockefella was a Nazi supporter and Andrew Melon head of the Treasury was along with the other bankers funding the secret rearmament of Germany in the 1920s and 30s for the bankrupt Weimar Germany.
Do the current generations from these banker families still have connections/ownership to Nazi tech projects via their interest/stake in Nazi camouflaging/cloaking, anti-gravity, rocketry experimental tech that we call UFO's.
....this is the very reason TDL sets his books (that he didn't write) around Nazi black projects.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

The army will get a hold of any tech abilities for defense, taking it out of public domain when/if there ends up being a reason to.
Why else pay for the research on it? Not out of the goodness of their hearts

Halleaux could not comment on the specifics regarding the types of research and technology the Army is after in this deal, but he did express that camouflaging and keeping ground vehicles and personnel safe are always “a priority.”

www.vice.com...

originally posted by: 1point92AU

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: 1point92AU


I disagree. And beyond this guy, there's much proof Lazar is out of it.

We'll agree to disagree and move on. If you want to defend him there are threads about him.

Jeez man you guys lack comprehension. I'm not defending Lazar with regards to this discussion. Simply pointing out how hypocritical the Lazar haters are. It's simple. The haters say "Lazar is a liar because he has no "proof"....then they turn around and promote one of many alternate stories about "what really happened" by using the same lack of proof argument.

Get it?

Chill...

Nobody hates this man. Most of us here are skeptical, not cynical about some ufo related claims and many here are skeptical about most of them.

Count me amongst the former. Any judgment on Lazar or any ufo claims are looked at here objectively--evidence-based--nothing is personal.

I’ve studied this subject for decades now and judge all claims based on the evidence, not emotionality or whether someone is liked or not and has a following.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: pigsy2400

Especially when the topic discussed, Bob Lazar, is not really relevant in this thread. Other than his brush with Bigelow. Who promptly dispensed with his services for conning him which is covered in a number of threads about the man.

Moving on............

In relation to ECM (Electronic Counter Measures) there is something very weird going on in the port of Shanghai.

On a sultry summer night in July 2018, the MV Manukai was arriving at the port of Shanghai, near the mouth of the Huangpu River....As the crew carefully maneuvered the 700-foot ship through the world’s busiest port, its captain watched his navigation screens closely. Every few seconds, these devices broadcast their identity, position, course, and speed and display from other ships in the area.. The position data for those transponders comes from GPS satellites....

According to the Manukai’s screens, another ship was steaming up the same channel....Suddenly, the other ship disappeared from the AIS display. A few minutes later, the screen showed the other ship back at the dock. Then it was in the channel and moving again, then back at the dock, then gone once more.

Eventually, mystified, the captain picked up his binoculars and scanned the dockside. The other ship had been stationary at the dock the entire time.

Now, new research and previously unseen data show that the Manukai, and thousands of other vessels in Shanghai over the last year, are falling victim to a mysterious new weapon that is able to spoof GPS systems in a way never seen before.

....China has about as many bicycles as the rest of the world combined, with nearly 10 million in Shanghai alone. Some of the city’s cyclists use smartphone fitness apps to track their rides. One in particular, Strava, shares a global heat map of anonymized activities from the previous two years. Zooming in to Shanghai, C4ADS analysts could see.... spoofing attacks were affecting all GPS devices, not just those on ships.

Ghost ships, crop circles, and soft gold: A GPS mystery in Shanghai A sophisticated new electronic warfare system is being used at the world’s busiest port. But is it sand thieves or the Chinese state behind it?

If you they spoof GPS co-ordinates of large boats and bicycles then perhaps someone can do it with tic-tacs?

No need for GPS spoofing.

AIS transceivers can be bought by anyone and are used to transmit position. The data can easily be manipulated.

At any given time there are ships on dry land, far away from where they actually are or moving at hundreds of knots, because of faulty or outdated AIS tranceivers.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I did not finish the Strieber book yet but he does not seem to think we are dealing with ETs from other planets - or at least does not think ETs are the primary force behind the phenomena.

It's a pretty bizarre book to be honest.

He thinks the visitors are an inter-dimensional force that have been interacting with mankind from the beginning. They are more highly evolved and potentially all knowing. They appear sometimes in conjunction withe the dead and may actually come from the same place. They allegedly enjoy interacting with humans because of our limited sense of reality that allows us to be surprised by experiences. I guess in other words they are bored by their godlike powers and like seeing things through our eyes. In return they give us knowledge to help save our dying planet and the human race. This leads to a symbiotic relationship where they need us and we need them.

Like I said - it's a bizarre book.

To bring it back again to this thread topic - much of what Strieber says fits in with the themes of DeLonge and Levenda's Sekret Machines: Gods, Man War series. They seem to be describing the same thing from different angles. To the TTSA guys we are looking at a threatening phenomena that has been toying with humans for thousands of years, manipulating them, and maybe even at times possessing them. To Streiber they may be frightening but that is only due to their "otherness" and they are actually here to help us move forward.

I'm not endorsing any of these theories but it is important to understand what the people behind the scenes actually believe or purport to believe (and what they want us to believe) because this shapes their actions and policy.

a reply to: coursecatalog

He thinks the visitors are an inter-dimensional force that have been interacting with mankind from the beginning. They are more highly evolved and potentially all knowing. They appear sometimes in conjunction withe the dead and may actually come from the same place. They allegedly enjoy interacting with humans because of our limited sense of reality that allows us to be surprised by experiences. I guess in other words they are bored by their godlike powers and like seeing things through our eyes. In return they give us knowledge.....

One could read Prometheus or the Bible to see this source material

a reply to: coursecatalog

What is important here is; lets even say that they are correct in their analysis - even if they were - "their" translation maybe very different to someone else's.

Someone who was religious of certain faiths may answer simply "its angels" - pretty simple really - "whats all the hoohaa about?"

Others will say Grey aliens...some others would translate them as demons. Perspective, the individuals history, experience & bias plays a huge part in how people code and decode information. As do those that read those peoples works....round and round we go.

this stuff is no different in my opinion...

Symbiotic relationships huh? Reminds me of someone not all that long ago who spoke of similar things...

a reply to: coursecatalog



Your right TTSA believes in a similar scenario.


From Gods man and war Book 2:

We are in a symbiotic relationship with the alien. We have always been, since that first mention of the sons of God and the daughters of men. They are not all-powerful; they are just powerful in ways we are not. And they need us for that reason. And, God help us, we need them.e sons of God and the daughters of men. They are not all-powerful; they are just powerful in ways we are

And again you're correct they, unlike Streiber, have a negative take on them.