Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Why is a multi multi billionaire who had a lifetime of 'appointed' secretive extremely high positions in defense/government somehow now at the helm of 'public' disclosure?

Because Mellon and "the Gov" has something to disclose....

Not everything has to be a crazy convoluted conspiracy (it might be more entertaining and exciting to speculate conspiracy)...

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Oh gee I don't see the connection here, be a dear a spell it out

Neither did Cellty for a while!! Then the penny dropped and the editing removed the question.

I didn't intend this to be so long. The information is not new. But there's so much to digest you have to go back and forth and sift through it all again and again.

Remember, despite the mythology, not much or nothing strange happened on the ranch until the Shermans arrived . Certainly not any more than any other place in the world. Check it for yourselves by searching the internet. Things happened in Utah in the past. But it's a big place.

In the late 1980s/early 1990s - Bob Bigelow, began funding studies into the paranormal. Perhaps driven by the loss of his son. The Skinwalker Ranch was owned by the Myers family for nearly a century until 1994.

In 1994 the Shermans moved into Skinwalker Ranch. All the scary stories come mainly from them and are completely anecdotal. A few paranormal researchers were originally told strange tales. However someone convinced Bob Bigelow to buy it not long after. Possibly his assembled team of alphabet soup agents convinced him?

In 1996 Bigelow purchased the ranch. Strangely scared Tom Sherman stayed on as a well paid ranch manager and was silenced with a Bigelow kiss (or NDA). Was he therefore a paid stooge?

Later in 1996 - NIDS is set up and begins so called studies on the ranch. But all we have are some "stories" seeded into the local press. A credulous multi-millionaire/billionaire surrounded by intel people and then 8 years of studies that appear to be big on stories and very low on actual proof. Maybe Big Bob eventually felt duped by these people. Especially after Big Eric Davis tried to tell him the already debunked video of an alien autopsy was real?

It's now 2004. NIDS has been wound down to absolutely nothing after a couple of years and little in the way of evidence collected.

So when did Bigelow stop searching for Portals, Bigfoot and UFOs and get into designing and building military applications for space hardware? The timing is almost too coincidental..

I think this is the point he stopped being gullible Bob and wanted something in return.

It's late autumn of 2004. While out in the Pacific Ocean the crews of the US Navy are detecting tic-tacs on radar....Including Lt. Douglas "Cheeks" Kurth...Bob Bigelow files a patent..

In late 2004, right about the time that some U.S. lawmakers publicly unveiled a previously classified $9.5 billion program to build satellites that orbit the Earth undetected from the ground, Robert Bigelow,.. submitted a patent application for a satellite that proposed to do just that.

Bigelow’s patent, filed in November 2004 and approved a year later, follows a dozen or so previously filed inventions back to the early 1960s. Each outlined methods that could reduce or eliminate the optical and radar signatures that could be used to track, identify and determine the orbital parameters of a satellite from the ground...

.....This could include using radar absorbing materials and/or geometrics to reflect radar waves at angles that make detection of the craft difficult.” The patent goes on to say that shell could be “colored as to make visual detection more difficult.

Original Source

That was the point old Bob became more "defensive" in his relationships.

Feb 4th 2007 - TheFinalTheory leaks an alleged UFO video now known as the FLIR1 video

Dec 2007 Douglas "Cheeks" Kurth leaves the Navy and becomes Program Manager for Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies [BAASS]. The same year Zondo's predecessor James Lacatski is reported to have visited Skinwalker Ranch.

Jan 2008 - BAASS is officially registered as a new company. Doug Kurths duties appear to be in line with managing what was also going on at Skinwalker Ranch.

Aug 2008 - US Military issue official tenders for the AAWSAP contract. BASS is the sole bidder. #cough#

Feb 2009 - Bigelow's SIP contract with MUFON allows him to clean out their case database.

2012 - BAASS loses funding from original contract and the AAWSAP/AATIP project ceases in all but name.

Mar 2015 - Fightersweep confirms details of the Nimitz incident and names Fravor and Kurth in the article.

Feb 2018 - Knapp leaks supposed executive summary of Nimitz incident but redacts Kurth's name.

OK...

There's loads of other things happened in between and since.

But now we have security guards employed by BAASS claiming they were the real test subjects at the ranch. Bear in mind they may well have their own agenda too. As does the Pentagon, TTSA and Bigelow.

Given that the UFO community is ignored and left to fight amongst itself I consider that the motives of all these people is not to disclose the existence of an extra-terrestrial presence. Especially as it is exclusively "American".

From the outside it all looks very messy. No other nation appears to operate matters of national security like this.

But like I've said before about Argo. If all you knew back in 1979 that the CIA had set up a film company called Studio Six that appeared to be filming a sci-fi movie called Argo. How would you even begin to see the real plan to free the escaped diplomats from Iran holed up in the Canadian Embassy?

I can #speculate# that Bigelow was first groomed and used by the boys from the National Security State to create a testing ground for their toys at the ranch. Leaving him thinking it was to study paranormal phenomena. Maybe it even involved something we don't quite understand today anyway. But he's not a fool and obviously didn't like being taken for one. So they cut him a deal so he could launch his own space business. That's when the upstanding Senator Reid was brought in to help. That would be just speculation of course.

But oh c'mon people!

Surely even those who like everything served on a plate, and not like to think too much, can see there is something off with this whole "mis-closure" thing that started with Bigelow, involves his activities back at the ranch and now stands with TTSA?

There’s so much we know but still more we don’t know and can only speculate. Often the speculation is intelligent and, on the mark, but behind the curtain, can one ever really know.

Valles book 4 forbidden science tells us a lot about that Skinwalker episode.

And the fact that the main guys were connected to the IC.

And all these connections are so provocative

There’s so much we know but still more we don’t know and can only speculate. Often the speculation is intelligent and, on the mark, but behind the curtain can we ever really now the full story.
I mean, if one tells you a secret than how do you know there aren’t more secrets or that you’ve been told the complete story.

One thing at least we can count on with Bigelow, he doesn’t deceive and tell us he’s going to reveal anything

And unlike others, he hasn’t asked for money or promised anything.

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit
a reply to: zazzafrazz

Kurth's name was redacted from the 13-page 2009 document about the Nimitz incident, released by Knapp on 18th May 2018, but Kurth wasn't shaking any Tic Tacs in it:

As he approached approximately 15nm from the AAV descending through approximately 15,000 feet he could see a water disturbance in the ocean surface. He recalled that the sea state was low [calm.] At approximately 5-10nm away from the AAV, the controller told him to "skip it" and return to his operating area. Since he was close, he elected to fly over the water disturbance to try and see what was causing it. The disturbance appeared to be 50-100 metres in diameter and close to round. It was the only area and type of white water activity that could be seen and reminded him of images of something rapidly submerging from the surface like a submarine or ship sinking.

It also looked like a possible area of shoal water where the swell was breaking over a barely submerged reef or island. He overflew the disturbance and turned back to the north-west. As he was flying away he could see the disturbance clearing and could no longer identify the place where it occurred. He did not see any object or vessel associated with the disturbance either above the surface, on the surface or below the surface.

ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com...


Hmmm.

a reply to: Willtell

One thing at least we can count on with Bigelow, he doesn’t deceive and tell us he’s going to reveal anything

That seems to be the case. But I am unsure whether you are supporting him for doing something simply because he can?

His history with MUFON etc. looks like he's being used to secrete information out of the public domain for his chums in the IC.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Willtell

One thing at least we can count on with Bigelow, he doesn’t deceive and tell us he’s going to reveal anything

That seems to be the case. But I am unsure whether you are supporting him for doing something simply because he can?

His history with MUFON etc. looks like he's being used to secrete information out of the public domain for his chums in the IC.

You know I’m not supporting Bigelow. Just pointing out some facts regarding him and TTSA.

It's me who pointed out months ago likely all of this is about that 22 million and him finagling Mufon out of their files and breaking that contract. But it is true Bigelow has not indulged in the kind of ufo buffoonery like many people have.
Sure that doesn't make him a saint but its nothing wrong IMO pointing out the good, the bad, and the ugly.

My point is whatever he did he did spend his own money, for what that’s worth since billionaires have a lot to burn.

And basically, I have no problems if a guy wants to spend his money on ufo and ghost hunting.

All Bigelow said was he believes aliens are real. He’s entitled to his opinion. And we are entitled to debate or agree with him.

a reply to: mirageman

Dec 2007 Douglas "Cheeks" Kurth leaves the Navy and becomes Program Manager for Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies [BAASS]. The same year Zondo's predecessor James Lacatski is reported to have visited Skinwalker Ranch.

This is a central piece to the puzzle !

Most will not appreciate the significance of this.

Job well done MM.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: zazzafrazz

Oh gee I don't see the connection here, be a dear a spell it out

In 1996 Bigelow purchased the ranch. Strangely scared Tom Sherman stayed on as a well paid ranch manager and was silenced with a Bigelow kiss (or NDA). Was he therefore a paid stooge?

Well was he?

Why is it with you a constant barrage of accusations and innuendo of bad deeds and questionable motives of people who witness or talk about the phenomena?

originally posted by: mirageman
So she hasn't really had much else to work with since 1980.

She's definitely been wholeheartedly promoting some of the more dubious characters and wackier claims since then mate although to be fair she was one of the first to publicise the A70 incident (before placing all the info behind her pay wall) - really do think something incredibly strange happened to those two (MOD took an interest as well).

originally posted by: mirageman

You get approached by "information warfare agents" (I think Linda would call them "a scientist") and offered a story maybe even documents or photos. But you don't know what's real and what isn't. What you choose to provide in your entertainment products is up to you.

Yes that seems to be the standard operating procedure.

originally posted by: mirageman

The insinuation being that Skinwalker Ranch is/was actually somewhere where esoteric weapons were being tested.

I remembered your early work on this (good stuff) and did find it interesting that Marx reported no equipment, supervision or SOP of any kind - also his comments about the explosion of cancer/autism rates in the vicinity are rather intriguing.

originally posted by: mirageman

But there's another link to the whole BAASS-Skinwalker-TTSA story.

Who was the guy in charge of operations at BAASS just before they were awarded the AAWSAP contract?

Hats off to you mate - great research.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

I don't know what the slag like material is, but seeings the army wants to pay attention and take it in-house, I started to pay attention also when I heard it went through the Bankers research university a few years earlier. Why does the army get it and not the public Carnegie-Melon institute, surely they could give him a solid mates rate discount too?

Here's the rub: there's nothing to get. The Army bought options on potential developments, and this tells us a few things about the state of affairs.

1. there's no study on the meta material I could verify, hence it's likely a deconstructed tinfoil-hat.
2. the Army might be well aware of that, supporting the disinfo OP via adding legitimacy to the TTSA claims with a red hering of an investment. That, or they're blissfully ignorant and merely spending tax-money on potential updates.
3. think about black budgets. One way to get certain things from behind the veil of secrecy would be a gubmint sanctioned partnership. Think whitewashing of black projects not unlike the way criminals wash their money. You can effectively deny any paper trails whatsoever, and thus disclosure becomes a mere shadow of it's former self with the release of already re-engineered projects (whilst protecting the source).
"They" are effectively setting the stage for our Brave New Black World with indefinite secrecy for the really hot stuff that could mess with the status quo, whilst they'll release enough "potential for black magick" to keep the public occupied and deceived.

It's pretty well played, gotta give em that.

originally posted by: Sublant

Well was he?

Why is it with you a constant barrage of accusations and innuendo of bad deeds and questionable motives of people who witness or talk about the phenomena?

Yes Sherman was paid to stay on at the ranch and silenced by Bigelow.

It was posted in October : www.abovetopsecret.com...

Sherman, now employed by Bigelow to maintain the ranch, said he can no longer discuss the activity because of a nondisclosure agreement Bigelow had him sign.

Eugene Register Oct 24th 1996

Do I have to keep citing the same sources every time I post information already sourced in the thread because you are too lazy to search yourself or have a really bad memory or whatever it is that is your problem?

You have never authored a single thread and rarely, if ever, cited a single source in this thread . You seem content to snipe at others with one liners from the sidelines and continually spit your dummy out of your pram like a little baby. Stop reacting so emotionally. If you have substantive evidence other than what's in your own head start citing your sources.

Like I've said before, if you don't like what's being said here, then write up your own thread and tell people what your own conclusions are from your own research. It might reduce some of that negativity you have boiling inside of you.

originally posted by: Sublant
a paid stooge?

Why is it with you a constant barrage of accusations and innuendo of bad deeds and questionable motives of people who witness or talk about the phenomena?

speaking of paid stooges, i will get back to you on this in a couple days.

a reply to: Willtell

"Supporting Bigelow" was probably the wrong choice of words. He certainly hasn't indulged in the UFO buffoonery. But he is not someone financially locked into the ufotainment circus like others. So he doesn't have to entertain people. He can leave that to others.

Sure Bigelow can spend his own money on whatever he wants and he doesn't have to tell anyone what he's up to either as long as he isn't breaking any laws. His ethics are certainly questionable though. Paying for all those abduction files during the Carpenter affair was highly questionable. Especially given that the "abductees" were not notified. Then there are stories from MUFON about how things went down when he signed a contract with them to provide investigation teams. The short of it is that it caused a big rift and destabilized MUFON while he got access to their files in real time. But what does he want with all this information and why does he not share it?

a reply to: mirageman

But what does he want with all this information and why does he not share it?

Thats the million dollar question?

speaking of sources... for anyone who did not just watch tonights newest ancient aliens...

jim goodall (who wrote a book on the sr71 blackbird) said that long ago he took a copy of his friend bob lazars w2 to the office of naval investigation at the pentagon. he was sent to an admirals office where the admiral shredded the w2 and threatened him if he ever talked about it again. jim said he worked with bob at sandia labs and at that time bob refused to believe in aliens.

dave fruehauf (sr71 pilot who worked at area 51 for 6 years from 79-85) was recently told by his old co-workers that they had worked with bob at area 51.

a reply to: spiritualarchitect

This is a typical UFOlogy argument where people fight over the wrong things.

Whether Lazar worked as a janitor at S4 or as a scientist doesn't really matter in the end and has no effect on whether what he claims to have seen is true or not.

If you believe he was hired for his qualifications and given a fast tracked highest level securty clearance to work a part time job on this most highly classified project in the world and was shown spaceships and aliens on his first few days on the job then I don't know what you wouldn't believe.

The more probable explanations are

A. He's lying
B. He was set up, shown a lot of fake #, manipulated, used, and then dumped out so he would spread this BS into the UFOlogy ecosystem.

a reply to: mirageman

Any of these guys might be serial killers on the side but we don’t know.
We’ve demonstrated the dishonesty of many of these folks.
As for Bigelow, he can afford to lay in the cut behind the scenes, he’s a billionaire.
My take on him, conspiratorially, and there is circumstantial proof of this, is that he is in cahoots with this IC scheme to control ufology.
TDL may be his inheritor as the next rich guy used in this matter. Though he has only 80 million net worth.

a reply to: coursecatalog

A. He's lying
B. He was set up, shown a lot of fake #, manipulated, used, and then dumped out so he would spread this BS into the UFOlogy ecosystem.

Good analysis. The only question is would they expose their secret base to the public exposure through Lazar. Maybe.
If so, I think its all about spreading the myth the government is in control.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: coursecatalog
Good analysis. The only question is would they expose their secret base to the public exposure through Lazar. Maybe.
If so, I think its all about spreading the myth the government is in control.

The most credible analysis I've seen is this one which presumes a mixture of some lies and some truths and can explain everything about the Lazar case:

Looking at the Bob Lazar story from the perspective of 2018

Whether it's 100% accurate or not is impossible to confirm by outsiders without clearance. I have no doubt Bob Lazar knew the test schedule when he dragged his friends out to watch the UFO. The author of that link thinks Bob also know exactly what was being tested, which Bob never revealed, but he could have known about a test schedule without knowing exactly what was being tested so that's a detail I'm not sure of, but I think the rest of it is likely a pretty good analysis of what happened.

That tic tac UFO would have been capable of flying circles around any aircraft including Fravor's so it also raises the question if similar technology could have any relation to Fravor's sighting; I'm not sure about that but it's a valid question I think.

Was "Bob Lazar's" Area 51 technology related to Fravor's 2004 UAP sighting?

Okay, I’m reading Levenda and TDL’s new book and all of a sudden, I read a very strange thing in the book.


The book up until then is very academic, almost scientific, no opinions on much just a somewhat objective observational analysis of mainly inward physic, brain, some paranormal stuff then all of a sudden after discussing alien phenome types and sightings, and particularly the Zimbabwe school kid sighting of 1994 and sightings in other parts of the world…

…At the end of a chapter I read something that I have to double-check and see if it's not a quote. Not only is it not a quote of someone else’s opinion but it is written in emphasis.

Here it is, read it closely:

“Why have they not invaded?” people ask. “Why have they not simply come in, destroyed our weapons systems, put their webbed foot down, and forced peace on Earth?” This is why: because they can’t.

We are in a symbiotic relationship with the alien. We have always been, since that first mention of the sons of God and the daughters of men. They are not all-powerful; they are just powerful in ways we are not. And they need us for that reason. And, God help us, we need them.

Wow! That out of the blue, Levenda and TDL making a confession of faith more or less.

Very interesting...very interesting

Is this the Greek gods?