An End To The Moon Conspiracy!

Originally posted by golemina
I was stating that the evalutation/findings ABOUT the rocks are what could easily be faked.

Then you should have said so. You wern't very clear. And about the findings being faked. Anyone can request a lunar sample you know. Scientists and educational institutions all over the world that have requested samples and examined them.

> and there are may lunar rocks that have been found on earth that were blown off the moon and landed here as meteorites.

Blown off the moon? Anything you say.

By blown off, he doesn't mean by wind (which is what I assume you are thinking he ment). An astroid/meteor hits the Moon, that sends up smaller pieces and some of those land on Earth.

>An astroid/meteor hits the Moon, that sends up smaller pieces and some of those land on Earth.

Where is your scientific evidence (or eye witness accounts ) to support this 'theory'?

Don't feel bad JRA... I've heard of exactly the same source being claimed for rocks from Mars.

The kind of goofy conjecture 'logic' you would expect to find on BadAstronomy.com

(golem just shakes his head and )

Mars rock hitting earth

www.space.com...

Originally posted by Halfofone
The moon landing is perpetuated in mainstream society buy FOX news!

You do know that the Fox network didn't exist when the lunar missions took place, don't you?



[edit on 26-10-2006 by HowardRoark]

Originally posted by golemina
The kind of goofy conjecture 'logic' you would expect to find on BadAstronomy.com

" moonman " is that you ??????????

Originally posted by goleminaI was stating that the evaluation/findings ABOUT the rocks are what could easily be faked.

And I was saying that they can't be, because multiple (independent) researchers have been able to examine the rocks. Thus any false findings would be found.

So... Are you saying that if you're not a NASA true believer that you're not patriotic... Or even worse, (gulp) a terrorist?

No I'm saying you are sniffing up the wrong tree. I'm not sure how you could mis-understand my statement... maybe you are the slow one.... This is a red herring conspiracy

Real false? And HOW confusing is that!

Ok, lets say true conspiracy.

Blown off the moon? Anything you say.

Blown off by lunar meteorite impacts... You know how thouse big craters get on the moon.

An asteroid/meteor hits the Moon, that sends up smaller pieces and some of those land on Earth.

Where is your scientific evidence

epsc.wustl.edu...
news.bbc.co.uk...
www.sciencedaily.com...

you want more???




[edit on 26-10-2006 by Halfofone]

Originally posted by HowardRoark
You do know that the Fox network didn't exist when the lunar missions took place, don't you?
[edit on 26-10-2006 by HowardRoark]

REALLY!!!???? wow. here I thought FOX invented TV...

I meant to say that the HOAX is perpetrated by FOX.

love CIRCULAR arguments!



You can't actually prove that the Apollo 'lunar' rocks were actually brought back from the Moon...

But you CONVIENTLY just happen to have some rocks on hand that got here from some kind of game of 'lunar' billiards...

No wait! JRA says that those rocks prove we went to the Moon!!!



If the so called assaying of these 'Moon' rocks were done on REAL SCIENTIFIC principles, we would do it using the old double blind method...

Any takers?

Unfortunately, the lunar hitchhiker rocks is more BS 'science'... Just like the Big Bang creationist theory...

You know... Where the UNIVERSE SPONTANEOUSLY CREATED ITSELF OUT OF NOTHINGNESS!

That my friends is the poster child of a religion.

It doesn't matter how many web pages you find these goofy science premises on... All a web page is just text (and sometimes pretty pictures ) parked on a server somewhere.

Doesn't make it true. Just look at the total BS on BadAstronomy...

Come on people... THINK!!!

And besides... IF your goofy theory is true... Who says the traffic didn't GO THE OTHER WAY?



Maybe we should start our own web site... ReallyBadAttemptsatLogicalThought.com?

So if I went to a different galaxy and found a 'Moon' rock, we...



One last thing guys...

These 'sites' have LOTS of conjecture about Moon/Mars rocks. Could someone point out the actually location at one of these sites that deals with the mechanics of the proof mechanism used to establish that these rocks are in fact extraterrestial.

Where is the ACTUAL PROOF?

Thanks.


[edit on 26-10-2006 by golemina]

you have got to love :

blatant lies - golemina lies as often as possible

strawmen - golemina claims that his opponents position that bear zero relation to what they actually said

ad homenin - golemina attacks the intelligence and integrity of his opponents rather than thier position .

evasion - golemina now wishes to focus on the moon rocks issue , having run away from the lunar ranging argument

his best argument was " i think its bs "

no wonder golemina has no stomach for formal debate .

would you like to debate the moon rock issue , Nygdan has offered to administrate proceedings - and i am ready to go

or would you like to stick to random illogical claims such as " big bang creationists allege that the univers created itself from nothing "

a wildly innacurrate carricature , which bears no resemblance to actual big bang cosmology .

Originally posted by golemina
But you CONVIENTLY just happen to have some rocks on hand that got here from some kind of game of 'lunar' billiards...



If the so called assaying of these 'Moon' rocks were done on REAL SCIENTIFIC principles, we would do it using the old double blind method...
[edit on 26-10-2006 by golemina]

How Do we know that it's a rock from the moon?

Read the above link, especially this part...

Any geoscientist (and there have been thousands from all over the world) who has studied lunar samples knows that anyone who thinks the Apollo lunar samples were created on Earth as part of government conspiracy doesn’t know much about rocks. The Apollo samples are just too good. They tell a self-consistent story with a complexly interwoven plot that’s better than any story any conspirator could have conceived. I’ve studied lunar rocks and soils for 30+ years and I couldn’t make even a poor imitation of a lunar breccia, lunar soil, or a mare basalt in the lab. And with all due respect to my clever colleagues in government labs, no one in “the Government” could do it either, even now that we know what lunar rocks are like. Lunar samples show evidence of formation in an extremely dry environment with essentially no free oxygen and little gravity. Some have impact craters on the surface and many display evidence for a suite of unanticipated and complicated effects associated with large and small meteorite impacts. Lunar rocks and soil contain gases (hydrogen, helium, nitrogen, neon, argon, krypton, and xenon) derived from the solar wind with isotope ratios different than Earth forms of the same gases. They contain crystal damage from cosmic rays. Lunar igneous rocks have crystallization ages, determined by techniques involving radioisotopes, that are older than any known Earth rocks. (Anyone who figures out how to fake that is worthy of a Nobel Prize.) It was easier and cheaper to go to the Moon and bring back some rocks then it would have been to create all these fascinating features on Earth. [After writing these words I learned that virtually the same sentiments had already been expressed by some of my lunar sample colleagues.]

edit; you will notice golem, this is an INDEPENDENT researcher. Randy L. Korotev BIO.

list of lunar meteorites

[edit on 27-10-2006 by Halfofone]

Philo T. Farnsworth invented TV!

He later tried to invent a home fusion devise, but was unsuccessful.

There are amature fusionists that play around with his home fusion device to this day or something similar hoping to get it to work.

There you have it golimena. No one could possibly fake Moon soil or rocks. They came from the Moon and no average person can get a sample. They are protected more than Gold at Fort Knox.

hehe, I was right. Nothing will change your opinion...

There are so many OBVIOUSLY FAKE photos "from the Moon", there is absolutely no credible evidence to support this myth, and your last hope is one "independent" scientist who claims that the rocks are not from Earth.

How does the scientific process look, step by step, to prove that the rocks are FROM THE MOON (that is your task, not to prove that they are not from Earth). There are thousands of meteorites in the museums, to remind you.

I have also read a few studies that question this "scientific" method this "independent" dude is talking about.

And, for the "Big Bang" theory - this theory claims that it has proven that there was no Intelligent force involved in the creation of the universe. That is so remarkable, it makes it such a great scientific achievement, greater than Man walking on the Moon))))) How do they possibly know that?

This is to summarize Big Bang: we do not know how anything is possible, but we know that nothing intelligent is involved.

By the way guys, official science is slowly leaving the "Big Bang" theory, so don't stick to it too much. They are finding other ways to "prove" that there is no scientific possibility of anything intelligent creating universe or anything else. IT IS ALL JUST A COINCIDENCE. Nature. Chaos. And very sophisticated laws that we find in this nature are coming from millions of years of COINCIDENCE. Nature just created itself, and it is there. How is that possible, we are still researching, we are changing our theories every day, but one thing we know without a doubt: nothing intelligent is involved. We are scientists, after all, we know what we are talking about.

Originally posted by swimmer
hehe, I was right. Nothing will change your opinion...

There are so many OBVIOUSLY FAKE photos "from the Moon", there is absolutely no credible evidence to support this myth, and your last hope is one "independent" scientist who claims that the rocks are not from Earth.

I think we have gone over photo’s. There is NOTHING in the photo’s that cannot be explained. You guys asked for sources other than NASA, and now you mock this scientist. Why would you put independent in quotations? You question his credentials? Do you believe he is “in on it”? He really works for NASA? This guy has spent 30 years studying lunar rocks, from Russian LUNA missions, Apollo missions, and meteorites that fall to earth. Why would somebody spend 30 years studying a fraud?

Btw there is no use bring up the “nothing will change your mind” argument here. Because it’s obvious to everyone that you are just as guilty of that as anybody on ATS.

Originally posted by swimmer
How does the scientific process look, step by step, to prove that the rocks are FROM THE MOON (that is your task, not to prove that they are not from Earth). There are thousands of meteorites in the museums, to remind you.

Dr. Randy Korotev’ method using Instrumental Neutron Activation Analysis (INAA)
Did you read my previous link? Did you read it all? The part about the chemistry.

If the composition of a rock does not plot along this line, the rock is almost certainly not a lunar rock. Meteorites such as ordinary chondrites do not plot on the line because some of the iron is in iron-nickel metal as well as pyroxene and olivine….(snip)Earth rocks contain many more different kinds of minerals than do lunar rocks and would only plot on the line by coincidence; most do not plot near the line at all.

epsc.wustl.edu..." target="_blank" class="postlink"> Dr. Randy Korotev’s many publications.

Originally posted by swimmer
I have also read a few studies that question this "scientific" method this "independent" dude is talking about.

INAA? Really?
I’d like to see them please.

Originally posted by swimmer
And, for the "Big Bang" theory - this theory claims that it has proven that there was no Intelligent force involved in the creation of the universe. That is so remarkable, it makes it such a great scientific achievement, greater than Man walking on the Moon

))))) How do they possibly know that?

Originally posted by swimmer
This is to summarize Big Bang: we do not know how anything is possible, but we know that nothing intelligent is involved.
By the way guys, official science is slowly leaving the "Big Bang" theory, so don't stick to it too much….

Well I don’t believe in big bang science either…
How does this have anything to do with the moon? As far as I know Lunar geologists, have little to do with theoretical astronomical physics. I like to see you make the connection please. You demand alot of proof swimmer that's good. What's not good is you cannot see that it is being provided.

[edit on 28-10-2006 by Halfofone]

Originally posted by swimmer
hehe, I was right. Nothing will change your opinion...

The reason being is that we have solid evidence that holds up to scrutiny.

There are so many OBVIOUSLY FAKE photos "from the Moon",

Really? Show us one that is obviously fake. I have yet to see one. How is that the majority of people who have seen the Moon photos missed all these obviously fake photos too?

there is absolutely no credible evidence to support this myth, and your last hope is one "independent" scientist who claims that the rocks are not from Earth.

What exactly is your definition of 'credible evidence'? Or is it that you are just really that close minded?

And last hope? That independent scientist is just one of many who can confirm the legitimacy of the Moon landings.

And, for the "Big Bang" theory...

What the hell does the big bang theory have to do with the Moon landings? They are not comparable at all. I'd also like to emphasis that the Big Bang theory is just that. A theory. Theories change as we learn more about our environment/Universe. I am open to the idea of the Big bang, but I don't believe it in either. It funny how you seem to assume that all people who believe in the Moon landings must also believe the big bang theory. You just love those logical fallacies don't you.

Originally posted by swimmer
hehe, I was right. Nothing will change your opinion...

There are so many OBVIOUSLY FAKE photos "from the Moon", there is absolutely no credible evidence to support this myth, and your last hope is one "independent" scientist who claims that the rocks are not from Earth.

Now, I have been away from this discussion for a while, but, while it is late and I am getting a little drunk, I figured I might chime in. I would like for you to disprove not just 1 lunar landing, but the other 6 or 7 (help me out with the exact number jra?) that the US undertook in the last 4 decades. That's all.

How does the scientific process look, step by step, to prove that the rocks are FROM THE MOON (that is your task, not to prove that they are not from Earth). There are thousands of meteorites in the museums, to remind you.

What?

I have also read a few studies that question this "scientific" method this "independent" dude is talking about.

Maybe you should "get out" of that "shell" you are "living in." There is no "reason" that the "United States" would "lie" about going to the "moon" 7 "times."

In all seriousness, tell me, why would the US government hold on to this lie? You think that out of the 10's of thousands of people working for NASA during the past 4 decades, not one of them would come forward with the truth you speak of?

And, for the "Big Bang" theory - this theory claims that it has proven that there was no Intelligent force involved in the creation of the universe. That is so remarkable, it makes it such a great scientific achievement, greater than Man walking on the Moon

))))) How do they possibly know that?

This theory claims that it has proven something? Wait a minute, let's go over that sentence a couple of times...

This is to summarize Big Bang: we do not know how anything is possible, but we know that nothing intelligent is involved.

...........

By the way guys, official science is slowly leaving the "Big Bang" theory, so don't stick to it too much. They are finding other ways to "prove" that there is no scientific possibility of anything intelligent creating universe or anything else. IT IS ALL JUST A COINCIDENCE. Nature. Chaos. And very sophisticated laws that we find in this nature are coming from millions of years of COINCIDENCE. Nature just created itself, and it is there. How is that possible, we are still researching, we are changing our theories every day, but one thing we know without a doubt: nothing intelligent is involved. We are scientists, after all, we know what we are talking about.

No matter what you say, you have NO evidence of what you claim. Blab all you want, but without facts to support yourself, you are just another red herring.

Washington University website, and the theory of Mr.. Korotev. The THEORY it is...and how does that prove that the rocks ARE FROM MOON, not from MARS or a planet gozzilion megatrotillion miles away from our galaxy?

And was this THEORY accepted by REALLY independent scientists - which are so hard to find, since the MOON fairy has been helped by all governments...therefore, ANY scientist being PAID today will shut their mouth. I would too...

All we have is eyes, ears and stuff between the ears...to find the truth. And if you can't see it, nobody can help you. If you are paid to defend the myth - fine, I understand. Paycheck is a paycheck...we all need it.

At this point, there is REALLY no point to discuss any more.

Moon Landing Society claims that the photos are genuine, Armstrong walked on the Moon.
I (me, myself and I) claim that Armstrong is a liar, so is NASA, so is US and all other governments (or they are ignorant).

I know that it is MUCH EASIER to believe Armstrong than me. I wonder if I claimed to have visited the moon, and Armstrong, NASA and the government denied my story? I am sure you would believe my story, since going to the Moon is possible, proven, right?

Swimmer,
Your conspiracy gets bigger every time you post. Now the entire world is in on it, all helping the US subjugate their population.

If anyone here is being paid it’s probably people like you, co-intel pro agents spreading crap theories that can easily be shot down, in order to cast doubt upon the entire conspiracy community. Shame.

There actually is a point to discuss this, but you don’t discuss, you just talk, so don’t worry. I am willing to believe that the landings were faked, but I haven’t seen anything strong enough to convince me. 911 on the other hand, now there’s something with some conspiratorial substance.

I actually think that it’s much easier to believe what you do then what I do because you don’t have to do any critical thinking, you just post your back handed insults and conjecture, without any back-up. You can deny my proof fairly easily, just claim that every one is lying and getting paid to do so.

I hope that the origional topic of this thread come to fruition. Then we can all go back to fighting globalisim and tyranny.

Good luck.

I am just another paranoid "conspiracy" theorist, and you are smart, educated positive person.

I can live with that. Can you?

I believe in many conspiracies, just not this one.

I can live with that....


[edit on 3-11-2006 by Halfofone]

To me, the whol Moon story is TOTALLY OBVIOUSLY FAKE. This is the easiest of all "conspiracies" to see through. I have ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT, and I feel stupid to even think about any "discussion" about it. This discussion is draggin, way beyond any sense and fun...it is boring.