If the Plot to Assassinate Hitler had Succeeded

a reply to: AlienView

Here's some metal to add to the cannon fodder. It is a small thing, but, could have had massive reverberations.

What would have happened if the Founding Fathers would have ratified and wrote the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution in German instead of English? The Urban Myth/Legend is that it was voted on and only 1 vote tipped the favor to English.

Might be a myth, but, plausible... After all the Colonies were almost as much German Influenced as English and the Windsor Dynasty is German. However, the House of Hanover was between then Tudors and the Windsors - we pretty much hated them - House of Hanover.. Fought two wars against them for Independence (Revolution and 1812). So no common language to forge union with after 1901 when Windsor was named.

It might be that we would have been a greater ally to Germany, then England, when all said and done... Thus,WWI may have never taken place, thus the Treaty of Versailles would never had drained war torn Germany, thus Hitler's platform would have been moot in 1932.

Or, what if Hitler had been a successful painter?

Hmmm...

a reply to: Newt22

After all the Colonies were almost as much German Influenced

You need to do some study.

Only 9% of the colonists where of German decent.

Are you really saying that the other 91% of the colonists would have been happy to learn a new language ?

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: Newt22

After all the Colonies were almost as much German Influenced

You need to do some study.

Not really the point, nor is this a scholars' forum, requiring imperialistic evidence. So the need more study is not necessary for discussion. I could suggest a point or two of tact may help in the delivery. Then welcome you to wrestle with that concept called speculation.

Only 9% of the colonists where of German decent.

Are you really saying that the other 91% of the colonists would have been happy to learn a new language ?

No, nor does it have to be more then 9%.

It was Land and Business Owners, not the masses, at that point in time that were the primary movers and shakers. New York was New Amsterdam first, and Pennsylvania Dutch are not from Holland. However, if you want to foment revolution its a smart play to start with 'We the People".

My point is that there is a legend that states we may have spoke German... or at least ratified documents in German AND the German Language was second in idea of use save only for English, which apparently, won by one mythical vote.

So lets use that bit of yarn to fill out the spinning of speculation and entertain the OP's point of ...what if?

Savvy?

a reply to: AlienView

himmler would have just taken over in his stead and would have probably killed far more people and done much more terrible things, if himmler was in charge the Germans would have probably focused more on victory than fancy new technology, pointlessly big tanks and forts or any of that. himmler was much more fanatic, dedicated, ambitious and focused than hitler ever was, he was the real monster behind the nazi party.

or alternatively the Soviet union would have been the enemy instead of germany, people often forget that stalin Soviet union was just as bad if not worse than nazi germany and nuclear weapons are the only reason the west didn't invade them after germany and japan were defeated.

a reply to: namehere

Unless I am mistaken, didn't Hitler get into politics to help the jews after seeing how poorly they were being treated in Italy while he was there studying art? That's what always confused me about ww2 and the holocaust. He took a bit of a hard Left turn there.

originally posted by: just2cents
a reply to: namehere

Unless I am mistaken, didn't Hitler get into politics to help the jews after seeing how poorly they were being treated in Italy while he was there studying art? That's what always confused me about ww2 and the holocaust. He took a bit of a hard Left turn there.

Please give sources for that statement

What you might find more factual and having more evidence is the fact [accepted by some] that Hitler was 25% Jewish!

I remembeer reading this in a book I read many years ago about what happened to many Nazis after the fall of Germany.

The Bormann Brotherhood by William Stevenson

"While the flames of World War II still raged, Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin issued a warning to the Nazi leaders. Those responsible for the torture and murder of millions of innocent and defenseless civilians were promised that "... the three Allied Powers will pursue them to the furthest corners of the earth and deliver them to their judges so that justice may be done." That promise was not kept. Justice was not done. In 1945, twelve of the most notorious Nazis were tried for crimes against humanity and sentenced to death by the International Military Tribunal convened at Nuremberg. (Martin Bormann, his whereabouts unknown, had been tried and convicted in absentia.) Subsequent war-crimes trials ended in the conviction of other offenders. But the majority of the torturers and murderers escaped, found sanctuary, and continued to work effectively toward the concept of eventual world domination. Nazism did not die at Nuremberg. This survival and resurgence was the result of a plan for the creation of a "brotherhood" initiated long before the end of the war by the least visible and most powerful of the Nazi war lords--Martin Bormann. The Brotherhood, backed by virtually unlimited funds, established "safe" houses inside Germany, escape routes to other countries and continents, and an extensive international group of industrial firms as financial reservoirs and as "fronts" for escaped Nazis. This chronicle, based upon independent investigation, including numerous exclusive interviews and the examination of declassified and revealing documents, casts a new light upon Bormann, his strange role in the Third Reich, and his devastating influence, which cuts mercilessly into our present. This is essential reading, as fascinating as it is meaningful."
Quote source:
books.google.com...

a reply to: AlienView

I'm just relaying what I learned in school as a child. However, I just looked it up and found the following.
I forget what source was cited about him seeing the treatment and being appalled. In either case, Hitler defiantly went anti-Semite in the end. His original motivations are irrelevant in light if the end events.

assets.cambridge.org...

Germany certainly lost WW2, and they would have probably lost anyway (unless Hitler's assassinated before the German invasion of Russia). But the Nazis WON.

Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, founding father of the Bilderberg Group and EU - Nazi/SS-Reiter
Werner von Braunn, spearhead of the US-backed Operation Paperclip - Nazi/SS
Dr. Josef Mengele, Angel of Death, Prominent Nazi Scientist - Born 1911, in Germany. Died 1979, in Brazil
Gen. Otto Skorzeny, considered Hitler's top lieutenant and once referred to by future-president Dwight D. Eisenhower as "the most dangerous man in Europe," LITERALLY escaped his trial and lived until the 1980's, going onto form several clandestine international criminal organizations known as ODESSA and the Paladin Group (one of which involved a young Muammar Gaddafi)

And let us not forget that Prescott Bush, father of future president George H.W. Bush, directly assisted Adolf Hitler's rise to power.

I.E. killing Hitler a bit earlier than he killed himself would have changed very little.

a reply to: AlienView

50% jew he was Baron Rothschilds Illegitimate son Hitlers mother was a servant to baron rothschild got pregnant then moved from Austria to Germany to give birth,
HItler came to England around 1910 same time as the germans Invaded England, whilst the german families rothschild and saxe coburg were wiping out the British aristocracy 1912 to 1918 Hitler was staying In toxteth liverpool then got kidnapped and manchurian candidated for 9 months In 1912 by the british military which had clearly helped germany come Into England, Hitler then became a catholic priest just like the other heads Of the nazi party formed In bavaria
Bavaria Is a catholic stronghold also the birthpalce of the 1760 freemasons which were banned from germany for trying to start the french revolution which conicidentally also saw the males In the french aristocratic families wiped out once the freemasons had got over the delay of being banned from germany.
coincidentally the 1760 freemasons which has 33 degrees against the original roman freemasons set up at least 2000 years ago and has only 3 degrees set up Its new british headquarters In london between 1910 -1911 this freemasonry has taken over the original 3 degrees one.

churchill was a a rothschild
hitler was convicted of murder and sentenced to 5 years before the war started he only served about a month, hitler was against the jewish bolsheviks yet they have been proven to of been financed by the catholics with a money trail from a german bank to wall street and then to lenin who was living In exile In either germany or switzerland and stalin, they say lenin was living In switzerland But I've read that It was more than likely germany.
history.stackexchange.com...

Orthodox Christians were massacred just like rasputin said they would be
8 million killed during ww1
12 million killed by spanish flu In 1918 (research the outbreaks of the spanish flu and you might see that It was a genocidal weapon used by the catholics just like the plague they used in 1665 In london)
20 million killed between 1920-22 by starvation.

90% of orthodox christians have been murdered by the catholics In russia and Is one of the biggest cover ups ever
this Is still going on today the war with ukraine Is abut killing christians this was originally funded by Ebay owner pierre omidyar his own independent investigative journalist company that he set up found this out here is one article about It www.thecoli.com...
and maybe the american government.
well thats about the stamp of the catholic americans go in and steal from every other country, bush was forgiven by the pope after the iraq war as well as tony blair and saddam hussein was pissed off with the pope because he didn't get forgiven. Hussein was working for the americans research operation gladio and you will see the rhetoric used to cover up the CIA, NATO and the 12 european countries that set up Its own terrorist groups across europe between 1940 and 1990.


lord haw haw was bought over to germany a week before the british were going to arrest him by the german jew lord bauer (the rothschilds)
the nazi party looks like It stands for national zionist party a joint effort by the catholics and the jews who are killing the jewish these are the coptics, orthodox and maronites.
you will see the catholics saying they saved 700 thousand jews In ww2 yep from poland the khazarian jews were exiled Into poland by genghis khan because they were psychopathic murderers in the early 1200s

the opening day of ww2 saw russia and germany divide poland In half, sort of goes against churchills remarks that they were going Into ww2 to save poland hmm only 2 years late england were only fighting with 3 battalions up In africa for the first 2 years of the war.
In germany the population was lined up on the streets holding up support signs saying they were going to take over the world again this goes against the history books saying hitler just wanted more land for the germans.

a reply to: IndyFront

Germany are still fighting ww2 they are still executing orthodox christians to this day and won't stop until they are all dead there has been no agreement signed to end the war
they are still fighting In england they have taken over most of the food companies are are poisoning the british public through the food chain.

check out what happens once the catholics get the upper hand In a country en.wikipedia.org...
on ignatius of loyolas brithday 23rd october 1641 80 thousand catholics were told by the catholic priests to murder and torture the protestants 40 thousand were murdered In one day catholcis were even torturing their own family members If they were protestant catholicism must be some type of viral Infection that makes you not human

Now just when you thought it was safe fast forward 350 years and the catholics are still torturing and killing people edition.cnn.com... another 800 thousand also have a look at how many the catholics murdered In ww2 700 thousand roma and romane in romania and how many did the catholic action group the ustashi kill In yugoslavia? hundreds of thousands again en.wikipedia.org...



Ignatius was meant to of set up the jesuits but It was really cesare borgia you can get a good look at the most famous face on the planet as it's his face used as Jesus's Raphael was said to of painted the most accurate picture of jesus as he was reincarnated after being one of jesus's disciples and that's utter rubbish because the history books clearly show that no-one was doing any miracles or ever talked about jesus, even josepheus did not mention jesus and you can go and read his book to this day you just got to learn aramaic.

originally posted by: just2cents
a reply to: namehere

Unless I am mistaken, didn't Hitler get into politics to help the jews after seeing how poorly they were being treated in Italy while he was there studying art? That's what always confused me about ww2 and the holocaust. He took a bit of a hard Left turn there.

Except that he never studied art in Italy. Hell, he never even made it into the Academy of Fine Arts in Vienna.

originally posted by: jinni73
a reply to: AlienView

50% jew he was Baron Rothschilds Illegitimate son Hitlers mother was a servant to baron rothschild got pregnant then moved from Austria to Germany to give birth,
HItler came to England around 1910 same time as the germans Invaded England, whilst the german families rothschild and saxe coburg were wiping out the British aristocracy 1912 to 1918 Hitler was staying In toxteth liverpool then got kidnapped and manchurian candidated for 9 months In 1912 by the british military which had clearly helped germany come Into England, Hitler then became a catholic priest just like the other heads Of the nazi party formed In bavaria
Bavaria Is a catholic stronghold also the birthpalce of the 1760 freemasons which were banned from germany for trying to start the french revolution which conicidentally also saw the males In the french aristocratic families wiped out once the freemasons had got over the delay of being banned from germany.
coincidentally the 1760 freemasons which has 33 degrees against the original roman freemasons set up at least 2000 years ago and has only 3 degrees set up Its new british headquarters In london between 1910 -1911 this freemasonry has taken over the original 3 degrees one.

churchill was a a rothschild
hitler was convicted of murder and sentenced to 5 years before the war started he only served about a month, hitler was against the jewish bolsheviks yet they have been proven to of been financed by the catholics with a money trail from a german bank to wall street and then to lenin who was living In exile In either germany or switzerland and stalin, they say lenin was living In switzerland But I've read that It was more than likely germany.
history.stackexchange.com...

Orthodox Christians were massacred just like rasputin said they would be
8 million killed during ww1
12 million killed by spanish flu In 1918 (research the outbreaks of the spanish flu and you might see that It was a genocidal weapon used by the catholics just like the plague they used in 1665 In london)
20 million killed between 1920-22 by starvation.

90% of orthodox christians have been murdered by the catholics In russia and Is one of the biggest cover ups ever
this Is still going on today the war with ukraine Is abut killing christians this was originally funded by Ebay owner pierre omidyar his own independent investigative journalist company that he set up found this out here is one article about It www.thecoli.com...
and maybe the american government.
well thats about the stamp of the catholic americans go in and steal from every other country, bush was forgiven by the pope after the iraq war as well as tony blair and saddam hussein was pissed off with the pope because he didn't get forgiven. Hussein was working for the americans research operation gladio and you will see the rhetoric used to cover up the CIA, NATO and the 12 european countries that set up Its own terrorist groups across europe between 1940 and 1990.


lord haw haw was bought over to germany a week before the british were going to arrest him by the german jew lord bauer (the rothschilds)
the nazi party looks like It stands for national zionist party a joint effort by the catholics and the jews who are killing the jewish these are the coptics, orthodox and maronites.
you will see the catholics saying they saved 700 thousand jews In ww2 yep from poland the khazarian jews were exiled Into poland by genghis khan because they were psychopathic murderers in the early 1200s

the opening day of ww2 saw russia and germany divide poland In half, sort of goes against churchills remarks that they were going Into ww2 to save poland hmm only 2 years late england were only fighting with 3 battalions up In africa for the first 2 years of the war.
In germany the population was lined up on the streets holding up support signs saying they were going to take over the world again this goes against the history books saying hitler just wanted more land for the germans.

I've posted the above because I don't want it altered and so that everyone can see it.
And it's... fascinating.
Can I ask where you got the above assemblage of ludicrous statements? There was no German invasion of the UK in 1910. The First World War did not start until 1914. I'm not entirely sure why you think that the British Army could have helped the Germans invade, given the fact that the Royal Navy would have slaughtered the lot of them, but then you go to even odder areas by claiming that Hitler became a Catholic priest in Liverpool. Erm... what?
No, Churchill was not a Rothschild. Don't be silly.
And then there's this: "90% of orthodox christians have been murdered by the catholics In russia" What???? No! That's the silliest thing I've ever seen.
Until, of course, we get to this: "the opening day of ww2 saw russia and germany divide poland In half, sort of goes against churchills remarks that they were going Into ww2 to save poland hmm only 2 years late england were only fighting with 3 battalions up In africa for the first 2 years of the war."
Three battalions? In all of Africa? Really?
Erm.
NOPE!
Please cite your sources for the above. Because I'm recovering from gastric flu and frankly I need a good laugh.

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Not really. The German military was far more powerful advanced than Allied military at the start of the war. Hitler stopped the attack at Dunkirk, allowing us Brits to escape. The reason was that he still hoped to get us onside. Our entire exploratory force could have been wiped out en masse, and he could then simply have hopped over the Channel. The Battle Of Britain was decisive in one way but we only won that because we were allowed preparation time. However, realistically, the German military carved through France, Belgium and the British Expeditionary Force in no time at all.

As for the USSR, Hitler's refusal to re supply or allow retreat caused his problems there. Again, if properly supplied, Germany would have carved open the USSR (as it was doing). The turning point on the Eastern Front was the Battle Of Kursk. This was won because of huge bravery by the Russians but mainly because UK intelligence had cracked the enigma machine and passed on vital details to the Soviet High Command. In essence, the Soviets knew what German divisions would be involved, what their strength was and the order of battle - kind of makes countering it a whole lot easier.

Sorry, but I have made something of a study of the Unmentionable Seamammal (better known as Operation Sealion) and it was never going to work.
Hitler did not allow the British to escape. He concurred with Von Rundstedt's decision to pause the panzers, as they would be vulnerable in the flat areas around Dunkirk, with multiple canals. Please don't forget that the main battle was not at Dunkirk - it was to follow in the crossing of the Somme and the capture of Paris (a fight that was a lot bloodier than the Germans expected). They never expected the British to evacuate so many Allied soldiers off the Dunkirk perimeter.
Now, Hitler could never have 'hopped over' the Channel. This is because the German Navy had taken horrific losses in the Norway campaign and any barges that it escorted over the Channel would have been slaughtered by the Royal Navy. Sealion was a busted flush right from the start.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

This is because the German Navy had taken horrific losses in the Norway campaign and any barges that it escorted over the Channel would have been slaughtered by the Royal Navy

Not to mentioned getting hammered by the RAF, too.

a reply to: AlienView

someone else could have taken over

Air Marshall Herman Goering's screw ups let the Brits get away at Dunkirk. The Panzer Kommander had to follow Hitler's order to let the Luftwaffe take care of the Brits on the beaches. Something not being mentioned is that Hitler had been temporarily blinded in WWI, and later refused all of the Generals' pleas to use their Tabun nerve gas on Britain and later the Normandy Invasions. They had enormous stockpiles loaded in shells, in caves behind the Normandy beaches.

I attended a lecture on the genesis of the Nazis, by a U. of I. prof. who had collected some of the original paper flyers. The Fascist Brownshirts were only the street arm of a Theosophical group of Intellectuals. That prof had an original Theosophist flyer with the Nazi Swastika emblazoned on it. Both Hitler's commanding officer in WWI, and his army "handler", after the war, were Jewish. When Hitler needed a whipping boy, the Jews were only 2% of the German Parliament, so he created both of his Jewish overlords, "Honorary Aryans". Go Figure?? Hitler did modify the original Nat. Socialists Party into the National Socialist Workers Party *NAZI*, to differentiate them from the other Socialists. His Hofbrau Haus Putsch came two days after Bolsheviks staged a Coup in Berlin. So it was to keep Bavaria from going Communist. The Berlin Coup failed, and Hitler's rear guard try wasn't appreciated in Berlin, so he got a year in Jail. Or rather, Club Weimar. That's where he wrote Mein Kampf.

Nice and interesting read here!!!

I have posted a thread elsewhere the question of how a successful plot to assassinate Hitler who have impacted the Holocaust:
www.abovetopsecret.com...