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The Evidence Coming Out Of The Flynn Case Makes Mueller Look Worse And Worse

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posted on Dec, 19 2018 @ 04:49 PM
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The Evidence Coming Out Of The Flynn Case Makes Mueller Look Worse And Worse


s Michael Flynn stood for sentencing Tuesday, you could imagine the special counsel attorneys audibly exhale in relief as he declined to withdraw his guilty plea. Until that moment, it was an open question whether Judge Emmet Sullivan would excuse the government’s now apparent misconduct.

Instead, the judge blasted Flynn for “selling out” his country and wondered whether a “treason” charge might have been considered at some point. The Federalist’s Sean Davis hypothesized that the judge was frustrated by the Flynn team attempting to have his cake and eat it too. If Flynn wanted to attack the government’s abuse of constitutional rights, fine—then withdraw the plea. If not, then drop it.


Click link for full article...

A few things first. When the judge ripped into Flynn, essentially telling him he sold out his country and accused him of being engaged in treasonous activity, he had his information wrong. The judge was under the assumption Flynn did all of what he was accused of while serving as NSA while also continuing to be an unregistered foreign agent (FARA). He ended his FARA before he accepted the position of NSA. The judge apologized to him in open court when he received the correct information.

The article I am posting goes into several areas dealing with Flynn and speculates on what else might be going on.

Apparently Flynn / his legal team has filed several complaints about the SC since this started. There is evidence, after the Flynn team filed the most recent complaint (entrapment / lied to by the FBI) that the SC essentially threatened Flynn with more charges in addition to targeting his son for prosecution. Hence the weird reason they filed the complaint only to not act on it when it came up in court on Tuesday.

Speculation is this is why Flynn opted not to challenge.

Further speculation, given the judges record of going after government corruption (Sen. Stevens mess comes to mind), was his questions to Flynn. Specifically where he asked him a few times if he wished to change his plea. People took that as Sullivan trying to signal to Flynn that he should change his plea. When he failed to do so brings us to his threat to send Flynn to prison for a few years. Speculation was this was to scare Flynn into a position to talk to his lawyers, which Flynn did immediately.

The SC failed to disclose to the judge that Flynn is still providing assistance in a few DOJ cases. This means a sentence could not be imposed as part of a plea deal as it requires the person to assist until the cases in question are done. Had he been sentenced then there is nothing that would have prevented him from ending his cooperation in those cases.

Strzok and Paige -
We now know the OIG tipped off Mueller to the text / email between the 2 that raised issues. Both persons phones, when the OIG requested them, deleted the material on the phones,m making them useless (we know copies of the info exist). The deletions were done by the SC. In addition to the texts talking about threats to harm Trump, apparently there are texts that deal with Flynn. Remember when McCabe made the comment First we Fuc Flynn then we Fuc Trump".

I believe Flynn fell on his sword to protect his family. Hence the strange turn of events with the complaint that was filed and his change of position on Tuesday.

From the article:

The stakes were high. Last week, the Robert Mueller team filed a court document effectively threatening prison time if Flynn’s defense team continued alerting the judge to the pattern of misconduct perpetrated by the rogue’s gallery led by former deputy FBI director Andrew McCabe.

As I show below, Flynn’s continued willingness to stick to his plea solved a big problem for Mueller’s team. Among the many acts of misconduct committed to get Flynn, we’re now finding out that the Mueller team quietly returned the Peter Strzok and Lisa Page phones back to the FBI to be deleted and re-issued when they knew the text messages on those phones undercut the credibility of their lead investigator.



The 302's -
The SC did in fact lie to the court by submitting the one 302. He failed to turn over the original 2 302's along with notes and other material that would be exculpatory to Flynn. This is the 2nd time the judge has ordered a Brady discovery. Why is this important? Brady discovery is usually the first thing the defense does. The discovery motion requires the prosecution to turn over their entire case to the defense. Anytime info is not turned over it is a Brady violation and can have serious repercussions to the prosecution, up to and including having their entire case dismissed with prejudice (cant refile charges.

The 302 turned in was the one that came 7 months later that was then backdated. Another FBI agent interviewed Strzok, using that 302 as the basis for the case against Flynn.

The other thing noted in the article was Flynn plead guilty before all of the info about the Comey and the special counsel mess came to light, with more info coming out daily now it seems.






edit on 19-12-2018 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



+11 more 
posted on Dec, 19 2018 @ 04:50 PM
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Entrapment -
When a person acting under color of law takes an action that affects a targeted individual, prompting them to take an action they would not otherwise take.

EX: A guy drinks to much at the bar. He crawls into the backseat of his car to sleep it off. Cop shows up, realizes the guy is drunk and lets another cop know. The cop makes contact, tells the guy he needs to move his car off the lot, even after the guy says he was to drunk to drive. During the move the other cop pulls him over and makes an arrest for drunk driving.


Miranda Warnings -
You all have heard it on tv, or some in person -
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you do say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to speak to an attorney, and to have an attorney present during any questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be provided for you at governments expense. You have the right to stop any questioning at any point until a lawyer is present. Do you understand these rights as I have explained them?

There are different versions however as long as the core requirements are present its valid. If the person refuses to talk at this point the courts require the officer to assume the person has invoked their right to remain silent and any further questioning must end.

This is important in Flynns case because the 2 agents sent to interview Flynn at the White House had a discussion before hand and decided they were not going to inform Flynn of the real reason they were there - to interrogate him over his "lies". People think a person has to be in handcuffs before Miranda warning are required to be read. This is not true. Scotus requires a person be A - in custody and B - being asked guilt seeking questions.

In custody is defined as - Restricting the free movement of an individual.

This does NOT require handcuffs.

If a reasonable person believes they are not free to leave then for legal matters it can be considered that they are in custody. At the most extreme and picky view point if an officer has you detained, but not under arrest, and the officer directs the person to move to another location / room / etc it can be considered the person was placed under arrest because an officer restricted their freedom of movement by ordering them to move elsewhere (again an extreme strict interpretation but you get the idea).

More damning is the comment Comey made in the last few days RE not contact White House Counsel first RE Flynn. He said interviewing Flynn the way they did would never have occurred in other administrations and only occurred here because of how much disarray this administration is in.

By failing to disclose the real reason they were there, by telling Flynn he did not need a lawyer and by not notifying the White House counsel coupled with the agents asking guilt seeking questions they violated Miranda (people dispute this however I feel it was violated). The other issue is the FBI already knew all the answers from the illegal use of FISA. By doing this, it allowed the FBI to guarantee he would lie. If he repeats his statements, which is what happened, he lied. Had he changed his answers, they could claim he lied.

This was the basis for that argument by Flynn's legal team / others.

Mueller - Destruction of Evidence / Tampering with Evidence / Obstruction of Justice / Brady Violations
When Mueller destroyed the material on Page and Strzoks phones he destroyed evidence. Evidence that not only could cast more doubt on the Russia Trump bs but also show Flynn was unfairly and illegally targeted.

The original 302s were tampered with when they were changed.

By refusing to make the 2nd FBI agent available they are prohibiting a material witness from providing evidence by testimony / written report they obstructed justice.

Brady violations - Muellers SC failed to turn over all exculpatory information. That can also include making a witness unavailable where that witnesses testimony could provide exculpatory information that supports the accused argument that he is not guilty. The SC failed to turn over all 302's. He failed to turn over all drafts. He failed to turn over all notes.

My guess on this has to do with Flynns plea deal. Once you accept a plea deal you waive your right to discovery. In this case the judge took the unusual action of ordering discovery on behalf of the defense. This tells me the judge had as idea that Flynn was being screwed over. When that order was entered I believe it threw Mueller SC for a loop. I would also argue that the evidence that was turned over might have been created after the fact. The SC could make allegations he wanted to and not have to supply the information to support the accusations the SC made because of the plea deal.

They did the same to Cohen, having him admit to a crime that was not a crime.

Coercion -
When a person is threatened in order to get them to act in a specific manner.

Example - While looking for a fugitive you make contact with his wife/girlfriend/family etc. You tell them that if they dont turn him over / reveal his location their kids would be taken and turned over to family services = illegal. Mueller employed this using Flynn's son. Take our deal or we go after your son next. Do I think his happened? I do and here is why.

Flynns business associates were recently arrested and charged for violating FARA. Flynn's son, who was involved in the business, has not been charged.

The issue for the SC is 2 fold -
Did they not charge his son because Flynn took the deal or did they not charge his son because he broke no law. If its the first its coercion. If its the second they are admitting the son was innocent, making the threat to go after him illegal as well as coercion.

Note - Mueller and people on his team have been caught before pulling illegal / unethical stunts. In one case Mueller knowingly sent 4 people to prison for life so he didnt jeopardize a source. He KNEW the 4 people were innocent. That bs resulted in a 100 million dollar + payout to the 2 guys who were still alive and to the families of the 2 who died in prison.
* - NYT - U.S. Told to Pay $101 Million for Framing 4 Men

A 2 page op so my apologies. There is a lot of info in the article and I wanted to take some time to provide additional info to help people understand some aspects.

As always if you find something I posted is wrong let me know.


edit on 19-12-2018 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)


+8 more 
posted on Dec, 19 2018 @ 04:59 PM
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The Mueller probe is the living embodiment of a Youtube conspiracy video.


+28 more 
posted on Dec, 19 2018 @ 04:59 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Reading this through again and will post more later

But I agree this is exactly my feelings

The deletion of the texts by mueller was the final straw for me proving he is corrupt and seeking to cover up misdoings by investigators


+12 more 
posted on Dec, 19 2018 @ 05:06 PM
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This has been an attack by the swamp against Trump since the start. There is no "there" there. They know it, but they hope to scare others into fabricating something that will allow them to impeach Trump. Honestly, if they can't impeach Trump I expect them to assassinate him before the election in 2020. JMO, YMMV


+6 more 
posted on Dec, 19 2018 @ 05:34 PM
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originally posted by: sooth
The Mueller probe is the living embodiment of a Youtube conspiracy video.


It gets better. A bit off topic so people can read and comment in a new thread if they wish.

Christopher Steele - The British guy who put the dossier together and his contacts were the ones used. He was forced to take part in a legal challenge by deposition in a British Court. In those depositions he admitted he was in fact contacted by and paid by the Clinton campaign. He stated he was paid to create a pretext for Clinton to challenge the outcome of the election if / after she lost.

* - Breitba rt - Christopher Steele: I Was Hired to Help Hillary Clinton Challenge the 2016 Election Results

* - Washington Times - Christopher Steele: I Was Hired to Help Hillary Clinton Challenge the 2016 Election Results


+9 more 
posted on Dec, 19 2018 @ 05:38 PM
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Thank you for posting this article

It absolutely brilliantly outlines the double standards and corruption of mueller and his team, and Rosenstein and the doj

I challenge any person who is cheeering for mueller to explain why he would delete strzok and pages phones right after he fired strzok because the IG told him of strzoks other inappropriate text messages

Anyone can see that mueller obviously agreed that strzoks texts were a problem, or else he wouldn’t have kicked him off the team

This means that mueller intentionally deleting the iPhone his team gave strzok ( which the IG says as a result they were unable to read the texts in it, which occurred at the crucial time when Flynn was charged with lying) could only have occurred for two reasons

1. Mueller is unbelievably incompetent

2. Mueller was worried that strzoks text could show how shady the treatment of Flynn was, and deleted them to preserve his case against Flynn

In other words, corruption of the highest order

2 seems most likely seeing as how mueller has gone after trump connected people for the very things he has left others off the hook for, like McCabe mills and Abedin lying to the fbi
edit on 19-12-2018 by Grambler because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2018 @ 06:15 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra


He ended his FARA before he accepted the position of NSA.


That's incorrect information as well. He didn't "end his FARA" — what you mean to say is that he ceased his unregistered foreign lobbying and other services for which he was covertly paid through a cutout in an attempt to hide his activities.


that the SC essentially threatened Flynn with more charges in addition to targeting his son for prosecution.


That's the essence of the deal he took. In exchange for his cooperation and guilty plea, he was only charged with lying to the FBI.

He could have been charged with other crimes of which he was clearly guilty and faced graver consequences, just like his associates who were just indicted (he's Person A in that indictment I believe?).

He got a good deal. That's why this whole "entrapment" bull# on the lying to the FBI charge is just bizarre.


Remember when McCabe made the comment First we Fuc Flynn then we Fuc Trump".


No. I remember when it was bouncing around the pro-Trump fake news echo chamber though. I believe it started with the anonymous serial fabricators at True Pundit.


In addition to the texts talking about threats to harm Trump, apparently there are texts that deal with Flynn.


I don't know what you're referring to here but if it came from the same source as the above, it's probably not legit.

I've been busy the last few weeks and I haven't even gotten around to reading the 302s yet, but I'm not really sure what the angle is here that makes it even worth discussing. Toss out lying to the FBI and they've still got Flynn dead to rights on the illegal lobbying stuff — and quite possibly his idiot son as well.

They still had what they needed to compel cooperation. He got a pretty sweet deal.


+1 more 
posted on Dec, 19 2018 @ 06:31 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
That's incorrect information as well. He didn't "end his FARA" — what you mean to say is that he ceased his unregistered foreign lobbying and other services for which he was covertly paid through a cutout in an attempt to hide his activities.


Fair enough


originally posted by: theantediluvian
That's the essence of the deal he took. In exchange for his cooperation and guilty plea, he was only charged with lying to the FBI.

The part about his son would be coercion.



originally posted by: theantediluvian
He could have been charged with other crimes of which he was clearly guilty and faced graver consequences, just like his associates who were just indicted (he's Person A in that indictment I believe?).

Yup - failing to register as a foreign agent.
Notice his son was not charged - was that because of the plea deal or because his son is innocent (which he is until a court says otherwise) in that he broke no laws?



originally posted by: theantediluvian
He got a good deal. That's why this whole "entrapment" bull# on the lying to the FBI charge is just bizarre.

Because he didn't lie to the FBI (yes he maintains he did however the way they conducted the interview and what the agents knew negates lying to the FBI since he repeated the info). This where the FBI could go after him for lying by repeating what he said or for lying if he changed his answers. This also conflicts with the original 302s that stated the the agents felt he didnt lie. Comey testified to that in an open congressional hearing.



originally posted by: theantediluvian
No. I remember when it was bouncing around the pro-Trump fake news echo chamber though. I believe it started with the anonymous serial fabricators at True Pundit.

Good thing text messages were deleted then right....


originally posted by: theantediluvian
I don't know what you're referring to here but if it came from the same source as the above, it's probably not legit.

Nope... Didnt read the op article did you. You should do that.



originally posted by: theantediluvian
I've been busy the last few weeks and I haven't even gotten around to reading the 302s yet, but I'm not really sure what the angle is here that makes it even worth discussing. Toss out lying to the FBI and they've still got Flynn dead to rights on the illegal lobbying stuff — and quite possibly his idiot son as well.

They still had what they needed to compel cooperation. He got a pretty sweet deal.


The first 2 302's were never turned over. What was turned over was the 3rd 302 taken 7 months later and back dated. Strzok was interviewed to create the new 302 where its stated they told Flynn the reason they were there. They never told Flynn they were there to interrogate him as a suspect. They failed to turn over all exculpatory info as ordered by the judge - twice.

The deal would be sweet had he actually lied. He didnt.





edit on 19-12-2018 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)


+3 more 
posted on Dec, 19 2018 @ 06:35 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

We can go point by point later which I look forward to

But I am busy now and have a general question


Are you ok with mueller deleting strzok and pages phone data?



posted on Dec, 19 2018 @ 08:58 PM
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Watching the Swap Cops.

Make the Keystone Cops look organized.



posted on Dec, 19 2018 @ 11:37 PM
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Those texts should not have been erased and Meuller is responsible for that. He should be replaced for incompetance, he should lose his pension too. Those should have been backed up but evidently Meullers team is above the laws of this country. Maybe we need to redo the laws. Who the hell made these people above the laws, they can do anything they want



posted on Dec, 19 2018 @ 11:58 PM
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The Federalist is your source?

Really?

mediabiasfactcheck.com...

Extreme right and a questionable source:

A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, overt propaganda, poor or no sourcing to credible information and/or is fake news. Fake News is the deliberate attempt to publish hoaxes and/or disinformation for the purpose of profit or influence...

They failed the fact check.



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 12:57 AM
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Let's hope the DOJ has been investigating all of this and is putting together what it needs to issue indictments, and to restrict Bob Mueller to his original mandate.

That's where the rubber meets the road.

Our discussions are analogous to the TV sports guys on Sunday Morning, speculating about the day's upcoming NFL game match-ups.



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:10 AM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Xcathdra

Reading this through again and will post more later

But I agree this is exactly my feelings

The deletion of the texts by mueller was the final straw for me proving he is corrupt and seeking to cover up misdoings by investigators



There is no sane rationale to delete the text messages of the lead investigator and the interviewer of Flynn. The Judge and any normal person knows exactly what that means. Mueller was head of the FBI, he KNOWS you don't delete such texts. Those texts were damaging to the SC.

I have yet to hear anyone give a proper reason for destroying such evidence.

It stinks to holy hell.

And don't get me started on the 302's..........
edit on 20-12-2018 by pavil because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:26 AM
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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Xcathdra

Reading this through again and will post more later

But I agree this is exactly my feelings

The deletion of the texts by mueller was the final straw for me proving he is corrupt and seeking to cover up misdoings by investigators



Actually, I just read an article that the deletion of text messages was a fabrication by Trump that you guys bought into hook, line, and sinker.


President Donald Trump, seeking to discredit the investigation into whether his 2016 campaign colluded with Russia, claimed without evidence that thousands of text messages exchanged between former FBI officials were deliberately erased. Trump also said the text messages, between former agent Peter Strzok and bureau lawyer Lisa Page, would have exposed Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s probe as a hoax, had they not been "purposely and illegally deleted."



First, a new report from the Justice Department’s internal watchdog suggests the roughly 19,000 messages slipped through the cracks due to technical glitches with the FBI’s data-collection tool on Samsung devices, not because Strzok and Page went around the system.

Second, perhaps most importantly, while the messages were initially not captured, they have since been recovered. Trump’s claim gives the false impression the texts are still unaccounted. In fact, at least a portion of the recovered texts were given to Congress and described in press reports. Some messages between Strzok and Page were published by the Justice Department’s Office of Inspector General in a June 2018 report.


Politifact

You guys are falling for a con artist. Let me tell you a story. I had a best friend who I just found out had been stealing from me. And he acts just like Trump, trying to weasel his way out of getting caught. Well, I got him and now he is gonna have a hard Christmas.

What did he do? He got caught selling stolen goods to a card shop. He tried to tell me that he was selling them for a friend. I contacted the friend, and she sent me a picture showing him on Facebook telling her to "cover for him" and pretend he had been selling cards for her. My friend the thief also tried to make me feel guilty (aka blame the accuser) for accusing him of a crime he did commit. How can you guys pretend to be the party of taking responsibility for your actions with this kind of behavior going on with Trump? You would be much better of dumping him and distancing yourself.

Also, in case you didn't know already, Paul Manafort was the one who came up with the idea of discrediting the FBI to get him and Trump off Scott-free. This time I'll have a source.


Paul Manafort, who served as the manager for Donald Trump’s presidential campaign, provided advice to the president and senior White House officials on the FBI’s Russia investigation during the earliest days of the Trump administration. He gave guidance on how to undermine and discredit the FBI’s inquiry into whether the president, his campaign aides, and family members conspired with the Russian Federation and its intelligence services to covertly defeat Hillary Clinton during the 2016 campaign, according to government records and interviews with individuals familiar with the matter. Manafort himself was under criminal investigation by the FBI during this same time, a fact then known to the White House.


Vox

Even my most conservative friends are telling me that Trump is done. My mom stopped caring about him and my very conservative friend thinks he shouldn't run in 2020, and that his political career is over. Both were extremely avid Trump supporters. Now they are starting to think he is a criminal.
edit on 20amThu, 20 Dec 2018 01:35:35 -0600kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)

edit on 20amThu, 20 Dec 2018 01:36:25 -0600kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:38 AM
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a reply to: darkbake

Vox.....Lol


Department of Justice investigators were unable to recover text messages Peter Strzok and Lisa Page sent during their short tenure on the special counsel’s investigation, according to a report released Thursday by the DOJ’s Office of the Inspector General.

According to the inspector general report, iPhones issued by the Special Counsel’s Office to Strzok and Page were reset after they left the special counsel probe in July 2017, making it impossible to retrieve text messages sent and received on those devices.


Link to PDF



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:40 AM
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a reply to: pavil

It is interesting that you mention iPhones whereas I mention Samsung phones.
edit on 20amThu, 20 Dec 2018 01:48:16 -0600kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 01:43 AM
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a reply to: pavil

Sadly, it looks like Matthew Whitaker, our Acting Attorney General, has wimped out already.

He could DEMAND that his employee (Bob Mueller) explain why Strzok and Page's phones were wiped...evidence destroyed.



posted on Dec, 20 2018 @ 04:57 AM
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a reply to: darkbake

Most Trump supporters I know are still supporting him and still making excuses.

This thread is a good example. Here we have an article from a very questionable and very right wing bias source that has been known to spread fake news, yet Trump's faithful are buying it as you said hook, line, and sinker.

Who needs to fact check when a questionable sources strokes one confirmation bias?



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