So how is global warming the cause of the California fires?

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Either way makes no difference.

Actually, it does. Because you said this:

CNN blamed this specifically on global warming and said it was something that would become "common" due to it.

The conditions were not worse than those of the past when the drought was much worse and the temps were much higher.

You know this how?

This is from before the fires started:

The first part of fall has been dry so far in California, and that trend might continue.

UCLA climate scientist Daniel Swain said it's not unusual for rain to be scarce in October, but that dry conditions – like the ones forecast over the next few weeks – are increasingly being pushed deeper into autumn.

"We expect there to be a further concentration of California's already narrow rainy season into even fewer months during just the middle of winter,” Swain said, as laid out in his recent blog post.

Swain’s research suggests this trend is already evident, especially in Southern California. This could make fire season worse and make 2018 another piece of evidence regarding dry autumns in the state.

www.capradio.org...

a reply to: Phage

Accepting what you say and reference as fact doesn't answer the question of whether, given the circumstances they knew existed, if they pursued measures to mitigate this possibility. In other words, did they practice prudent management activities or did they see the threat and did nothing? Honestly, I don't know either way....

a reply to: CharlesT

Honestly, I don't know either way....

Could have fooled me, from your posts in this thread.

Here's the latest plan as well as archives.
cdfdata.fire.ca.gov...

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: CharlesT

Honestly, I don't know either way....

Could have fooled me, from your posts in this thread.

Here's the latest plan as well as archives.
cdfdata.fire.ca.gov...

I just posted a link without any comment, purposefully... If I recall I stated an opinion of CNN And Fox. Other than that, where have I stated my opinion in this thread. Don't get pissy with me.. I accepted your information as fact in a previous post. Lets let it go, OK?

Heat=warm

Warm>>>dry>>>flame>>>fire

You're right though. It's because they're not raking the forests.

a reply to: CharlesT

Will you admin that CNN isn't always wrong?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: CharlesT

Will you admin that CNN isn't always wrong?

My mistake in the first post was that I didn't bracket as being the brightbart article and NOT a personal comment. That's my mistake.
I don't like CNN and am beginning to despise Fox just about as much. They are both infested propagandist sites and I trust either very little these days. I just do not have the desire to sift through the bs to weed out truth from either.

I have begun to watch OAN and their site more and more these days because they just do news, all day every day, without the propagandist bs all others try their best to push onto us. CNN or Fox both have priorities to push bs and I'm tired of both.

a reply to: CharlesT

That's where critical thinking comes into it.

a reply to: Phage

I've had enough critical thinking for 2 lifetimes. I'm old and just lack patience to sit there and try to sift truth out of the garbage dump.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: CharlesT

Zinke. Swell.


The thing is, these are not that kind of forest. There's nothing to "harvest." It's brush and grass.

The Malibu fire is occurring in the chaparral-type ground cover that is characteristic of the California coastal hills (where I live) and the Camp Fire is occurring in the Oak scrub and grassland type of cover that is characteristic of the low Sierra foothills. Here is a pointer to the CALFIRE incident map:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

3. Being dense, impenetrable, and prone to infrequent, large, high-intensity wildfires is the natural condition of chaparral. It's not the fault of past fire suppression, poor land management, "unnatural" amounts of vegetation, or environmental laws as some claim.

4. The age and density of chaparral has little to do with the occurrence of such large fires. Large fires in California shrublands are driven primarily by weather, such as Santa Ana winds, sundowner winds, and multi-year droughts.

The paradigm that has been repeated over and over is that fire suppression has caused an unnatural overabundance of vegetation, creating dangerous levels of "fuel" in California's wildlands. While this may be an accurate description for some forests, such as dry ponderosa pine forests in the Southwest, it is not true for California chaparral.

www.californiachaparral.com...


Did Zinke say we should rake the forests too?
abcnews.go.com...

You know the area you are talking about, the Wosley fire, is totally different than the northern "camp" fire, don't you. You are misleading people to think both places are as you describe, when only the southern fire, the MUCH smaller fire is of this type of material/composition.

originally posted by: CharlesT
a reply to: Phage

I've had enough critical thinking for 2 lifetimes. I'm old and just lack patience to sit there and try to sift truth out of the garbage dump.

In that case, better to close your eyes and ears. Wait for the big sleep.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

You know the area you are talking about, the Wosley fire, is totally different than the northern "camp" fire, don't you.

Yes.
It's right there in my post:

The Malibu fire is occurring in the chaparral-type ground cover that is characteristic of the California coastal hills (where I live) and the Camp Fire is occurring in the Oak scrub and grassland type of cover that is characteristic of the low Sierra foothills. Here is a pointer to the CALFIRE incident map:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I conceded that fact to Phage several posts back. I just posted a brightbart article I forgot to bracket and purposefully made no comment of my own because I don't know that area or even the cali government's strategy to mitigate events such as this.

I'm caught up in an argument not of my choosing here. Uncle, Uncle, have mercy on me.

a reply to: Phage

I have a standing, "do not resuscitate" order placed in my medical records. I'm curious to know if there is really an afterlife, but not really THAT curious. I can wait and let nature take it's course.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

In the interest of fairness, regarding the oak woodland type terrain:

It has also become much more difficult to conduct “safe” prescribed fires because the state’s landscape has become so much more fragmented, with houses and other buildings within, or adjacent to, areas targeted for burning. These ownership patterns complicate prescribed burning plans in many areas, particularly those in wildland-urban interface areas. As a result of concerns about the use of prescribed burning and constraints on when fires can legally be set, considerable effort currently goes into reducing fuels by means other than fire. Treatments such as hand clearing and machine chipping are commonly used, but these practices are generally more expensive than burning and there are risks associated with them as well (i.e., chainsaw injuries). The California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection (CDF) now treats almost as many acres using these practices as they do using fire. Another tool used in some locales is to graze domestic livestock to reduce fuel loads.

ucanr.edu...

A lot of the open areas look like this:


It's denser in other areas, of course, as it gets more hilly. This is Sequoia National Park.

“Mr. President, with all due respect, you are wrong. The fires in So. Cal are urban interface fires and have NOTHING to do with forest management. Come to SoCal and learn the facts & help the victims,” the Pasadena Firefighters Assn. said on Twitter.

www.latimes.com...

Easy: The climate HOAX is causing the UN to spay chemtrails, those chemicals and the caused droughts were the catalists. So it is caused by the ‘assumed’ Global warming.

PG&E The usual suspect
You see, when a 1 degree increase occurs it affects pg&e workers negatively, and thus causing them to make mistakes and electricity polls fall and create a fire in santa rosa (last year) and probably the camp fire this year too. This is after one of the rainiest winters we had.

A 1 degree increase also causes thr general public to do stupid f'in shiat. Like thinking its cool to be an arson and light california up.

How many of the fires were caused by humans ? If it rained more would the arsonist just fold his umbrella and go home ? Would PG&E maintain polls and gas lines better ? The main problem is overpopulation + idiots + mismanagement.

P.S. it rained so much last year we had to release water from dams and Orville almost blew and created mass evacuations due to having way too much water.

Fires that are not caused by humans are native to this land. It's natural. Some fires are worse than others, but that's natural too.

stay woke.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I just can't understand how people can say that a 1 degree rise in temperature is the cause of these forest fires. It is absolutely ridiculous to think if I raised the temp in my house from 72 to 73 that everything would be 300% more flammable or something.

yes that would very ridiculous.

Please tell me how it is different than the sauna example.

air temperature in the atmosphere compared to a controlled environment?


You really need to be told and cannot see any flaw in the comparison?

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

The cause is exactly what Trump said--it's poor management of the forests, and most of that is due to California placating and appeasing environmentalists, specifically as it pertains to logging.

From what I've researched over the years, while logging was becoming a bit of an issue and a slow down was a bit necessary, the reaction was too severe, and it cause the inability to cut down dead/dying trees, or to clear out areas of dry and dead areas, amongst other things.

What people fail to see is that wildfires are part of a natural cycle, and they happen all of the time--it's nature's way of culling it's own forests. Of course, ones caused by humans cull things at a more frequent rate than nature does, but our fire-fighting ability also cease culling before it would have naturally stopped, so which one is worse as for as the natural cycle is up to interpretation.

The interesting thing is that, when Trump said that mismanagement was a leading cause of these destructive fires, he was ridiculed beyond a thinking person's belief. Well, it seems that California is quietly agreeing with him, and has been since August (after the Carr fire):

Faced with the worst summer fire season in 10 years, Gov. Jerry Brown is proposing broad new changes to California’s logging rules that would allow landowners to cut larger trees and build temporary roads without obtaining a permit as a way to thin more forests across the state.

...

Under Brown’s proposal, private landowners would be able to cut trees up to 36 inches in diameter — up from the current 26 inches — on property 300 acres or less without getting a timber harvest permit from the state, as long as their purpose was to thin forests to reduce fire risk.

...

The Brown administration is proposing that its changes to the law be inserted into AB 425, a bill written last year by Assemblywoman Anna Caballero, D-Salinas.

Caballero, whose district runs from Morgan Hill south to Big Sur, and includes Gilroy, Salinas and the Salinas Valley, said Thursday that while the governor’s proposal goes further than she originally intended with the bill — which proposed to ease road-building rules on forest thinning projects — she supports the intent.

“My interest is getting that dead fuel out of there and doing it in a way to generate some revenue and have people working,” she said. “I’m not interested in clear-cutting. This wouldn’t do that. There’s got to be a happy medium.”

Santa Cruz Sentinel (Aug 30)

It's obvious to anyone who has done any research and actually lived in California that mismanagement of the forests is a big, big problem, which includes artificial forest thickening by firefighting efforts and environmentalist-lobbied restrictions. Like the assemblywoman notes, this is not giving the okay to clear-cut forests, but better management and some thinning that otherwise would occur naturally is something that is necessary in stopping the severity and frequency of these fires.

Or, there's always the option to pretend like Trump is just an idiot because the media and opposition-politicians say so, and that these fires are only happening more often and more intensely solely because of global warming--again, because the media and politicians say so.

I know which option that I will choose...