Trump confirms US to pull out of nuclear treaty with Russia

originally posted by: Osirisvset
Any negative news about nukes makes me nervous as I daresay it does to anyone born pre-1980.

Meh

Since we didn't beat the communists in Vietnam, communism spread throughout South East Asia, into Australia, then South America, Mexico, and into the US. According to the timeline we we given in the 60s, that happened about 20 years ago.

But that doesn't matter. Since we didn't win the War on Terrorism our country has been overrun by terrorists. I guess they beat the communists.

But that's OK. Since we didn't invade Iran and North Korea years ago when they were just weeks away from having nuclear weapons, they have already nuked whatever terrorists and communists there were in North America.

But, of course, those radioactive, mutant, communist, terrorists won't survive Climate Change because they won't pay a Carbon Tax. Besides, they elected Donald Trump for President. That makes the US a country of deplorable, Nazi, racist, misogynist, radioactive, mutant, communist, terrorists who will die shortly from Climate Change. Who could object to the Russians nuking a country like that?

originally posted by: Allaroundyou
a reply to: projectvxn

Ya they kinda had us beat in that area. But here very soon that won’t be a problem with any luck.

Wasn’t it kind of a trade off between their superiorority in brute force (throw weight) whilst also tending to have to use lose that advantage when it came to the payload itself for example in the ICBM category the Soviets tended to have larger/heavier warheads for the same yield along with having inferior guidance causing them to have higher CEPs which led to them having to use bigger warheads to assure the same effect on a target without having a guaranteed “bullseye on the target”. Whilst the US focused more on optimization and fine tuning to the detriment of some reliability and mass scale producibility.

I always replayed the Soviet vs US rocket philosophy difference with this scene from Braveheaer, it’s not always the size of your rock but how ya well ya can make it hit home.


It worked out though with us getting some of their engine tech like those NK33s (funny how such a great engine came from an utter fail of an overall fail of a rocket in the N1 that was the basis for their abortive manned lunar program) and RD180s and we helped advance them in fields like the avionics and flight computers after the thaw.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

The US withdrew because Russia violated the treaty.

a reply to: BigDave-AR

It is very ironic how it all happened in the end. SU falls and we get access to those engines and get to use them on our systems therefore making ours even better than before. Smaller engine with more power along with our superior guidance systems make for one awesome rocket.
I say we walked away as the winner in the end. And now we have companies like Boeing about to start use of their RS-25 engine!

Kick off an AI / Transhumanism Arms Race, Militarize Outer Space, and re-ignite the Nuclear Arms Race.

What could possibly go wrong.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Kick off an AI / Transhumanism Arms Race, Militarize Outer Space, and re-ignite the Nuclear Arms Race.

What could possibly go wrong.

Nothing.....DUH

originally posted by: Allaroundyou
a reply to: BigDave-AR

It is very ironic how it all happened in the end. SU falls and we get access to those engines and get to use them on our systems therefore making ours even better than before. Smaller engine with more power along with our superior guidance systems make for one awesome rocket.
I say we walked away as the winner in the end. And now we have companies like Boeing about to start use of their RS-25 engine!

Indeed amazing that we each had pieces to the puzzle that complimented each other so well. I’ll agree that the engine tech was a bigger deal and we indeed got the better end of the deal but we also helped keep their engineers fed by paying good money for said engines. Always like that “The engines that came in from the cold” docu.

a reply to: BigDave-AR

I have not seen that I think. Am looking that up now! Thanks for giving me something to do besides sitting here with my wine watching Nat Geo!

originally posted by: Allaroundyou
a reply to: BigDave-AR

I have not seen that I think. Am looking that up now! Thanks for giving me something to do besides sitting here with my wine watching Nat Geo!

I’m a huge documentary nerd personally drives some of my friends and former significant others crazy at times but I’m always down for a good doc. No wine for me tonight I’m kicking it dude style with my White Russian.

Back on topic-
The Russians are always the first to call foul while trying to push the boundaries as far as they can treaty wise I mean look at their BW/CW programs of the Cold War post banning of them, that’s enough to make you take a bite out of your seat coushion with your sphincter!

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Well nobody follows treatises anyways, or at least most that do. Do so only when convenient for them. It is the nature of such things. Who knows maybe they like it, like it used to be in the cold war, or otherwise known as aka! the arms race, it created a lot of jobs ya see. Practically lifted a whole country out of depression.

And besides, I think we could do with a nuclear war or two. When was the last one? I cant even remember! But it must have happened before because I remember that it happened plenty of times before. Were about due for another one. That is if the earthquakes and zombies and other stuff don't happen first.

a reply to: Allaroundyou

No we use Russian rockets to make up for Obama's and Bush's blunders in running NASA we got a space station that once the shuttle fleet was grounded we had no way of tending and ferrying crew thankfully the Russians still are using Soyuz rockets to carry our guys back and forth to space station.

Leverage to regain the 20% of US Uranium assets that Barry and Hillary willingly allowed to be under Russian Control?


Just sayin

a reply to: shawmanfromny
www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: proteus33
a reply to: Allaroundyou

No we use Russian rockets to make up for Obama's and Bush's blunders in running NASA we got a space station that once the shuttle fleet was grounded we had no way of tending and ferrying crew thankfully the Russians still are using Soyuz rockets to carry our guys back and forth to space station.

Yep. And now we've got Astronauts drilling holes in the ISS because they've had enough...

Having heard and looked at this the following can be stated:

For years there has been a balance of power around the world, between the states that have nuclear weapons. The western powers vs the eastern, and it has kept the peace. The 2 main powers, the USA and the USSR, coming up with the MAD policy, pretty much kept the world at detente and no one wanting to be the one to push the button first. Saber rattling and one upsmanship the way that the cold war was fought.

It was not just the USA that kept the peace, with the USSR, but also China. Back during the days of the USSR, the thing was no one wanted to go first. If the USSR picked a fight with the USA, it would be fighting a war on 3 fronts, with the USA coming at it from one side, Europe on the other side, stalling out the Iron Curtain and China from the South. China was not interested in a war as it would not do well to fight on 2 fronts for that exact reason, nor would the US want to deliver the first strike, each holding the other at bay , not wanting to fight the one who kept out of the fight.

And the best example of keeping the peace that way, it was done with Nixon, who managed to play China against Russia to keep the peace in the world.

Now we are in a modern age, far gone past the day of the cold war. And Trump wants to pull the USA from a treaty signed. Many would see this as a good thing, where it is not, and here is why:

Even if Russia violates this treaty, even if it is one sided, the reasons not to pull out stands to the future of the USA, if not its present. By pulling out of this treaty, or any treaty done by this president, sends a message around the world. When it happens, may countries, both allied and foe alike will now have to ask the question can it trust the word of the United States of America. If a treaty is signed and ratified, in good faith, only for a future administration to pull out when it is no longer convenient or popular? If I was the leader of another country, would it be wise to sign a treaty with the USA, knowing that question will always linger on the minds of those who would follow me into office, and on the public?

And is it wise to destroy such a treaty, possibly sparking a new arms race to develop more dangerous weapons, that are devastating and will cause problems down the road? After all eventually with any new arms race, and arms, there is going to be the need to test for viability, that it is not a dud, and that in itself should be terrifying to see the end of a ban treaty that has stopped the tests before. And it should raise questions as to what other treaties are on the chopping block and what will be the consequences of those.

One of the reasons why that treaty got signed in the first place, was due to a good bluff, and the theory that a system could be worked, there is no guarantee that it will be as success the next time, if there is a next time.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I'm in the middle of watching DS9 right now lol! Nice timing!

Trump the dealmaker? Naw... since he became President, he has been the dealbreaker. Maybe ditching out of multiple agreements the U.S. entered in is in our best interest? Who really knows - but I do know countries are going to be rather careful before entering any news deals with the United States. They won't be worth the paper they are written on.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

But you Liberals have convinced us of such a passionate love between Trump and his collusion buddy Putin. Which is it? Are they political lovers or Nuclear enemies? It can't be both.

a reply to: fleabit

Can you list all these deals he has broken without trying to negotiate?