Trump confirms US to pull out of nuclear treaty with Russia

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: yoktishi

The 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty bans medium-range missiles capable of hitting Europe or Alaska.

www.abc.net.au...

Putin was bragging he has new missiles to hit Europe that can't be defended against.

Russia always had nuclear missiles that can hit anywhere in the world. Even Borei subs have missiles that can hit anywhere in the world.

Russians are incredibly nationalistic. They said. Attack 1 inch of Russian land and they will nuke the aggressor. That's why they have nukes that can hit anywhere in the world.

originally posted by: Flanker86
Will the Russians deploy IRBMs in Syria in large numbers to keep Paris, London, Berlin and Rome in the crosshair ?

France and Germany invaded Russia big time and burned Moscow. If I were a Russian I be paranoid about France and Germany. Not so much about Italy.

France under Napoleon invaded Russia and slaughtered lots of Russians while trying to take over Russia. Germany under Hitler invaded Russia and slaughtered lots of Russians while trying to take over Russia. America officially lists Russian as an adversary with the CAATSA law. France has missiles that can nuke Moscow. America has missiles that can nuke Moscow. Russia has the right to defend itself from foreign aggression. Russia has the right to have missiles that can nuke Paris, Berlin, DC. If America terminates the treaty then so be it. Russia will never give up its nukes which is for defense of Russian land from foreign invasion.

originally posted by: yostiller
defense of Russian land from foreign invasion.

I love seeing this ignorant excuse. No country today has any desire or need to invade Russia and occupy it. That is nothing more than an excuse to justify breaking treaties. Russia also likes to invade countries by using the Nazi excuse of trying to prevent harm/protect their nations in foreign countries. Just like Russia did to invade and occupy parts of Ukraine (Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk), South Ossetia and Abkhazia in Georgia and Transnistria in Moldova.

Currently Russia and China are the ones looking to conquer/occupy other nations.

As for the other excuse of Germany invading Russia you seem to be forgetting the Nazis and Russians were allies, coordinating their attacks on Poland and dividing it up between the 2. They also agreed on "spheres of influence", where Russia let Germany invade south and east Europe and Germany let Russia invade and occupy the Baltic countries and the invasion of Finland. Finally Stalin had plans of his own to invade Germany. The Germans beat them to the punch.

Also, country to the false claims that Russia has never been defeated is incorrect. The mongols actually kicked their asses and rolled all the way thru Russia, taking Moscow and continuing on further into Eastern Europe.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: yostiller
defense of Russian land from foreign invasion.

I love seeing this ignorant excuse. No country today has any desire or need to invade Russia and occupy it. That is nothing more than an excuse to justify breaking treaties. Russia also likes to invade countries by using the Nazi excuse of trying to prevent harm/protect their nations in foreign countries. Just like Russia did to invade and occupy parts of Ukraine (Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk), South Ossetia and Abkhazia in Georgia and Transnistria in Moldova.

Currently Russia and China are the ones looking to conquer/occupy other nations.

As for the other excuse of Germany invading Russia you seem to be forgetting the Nazis and Russians were allies, coordinating their attacks on Poland and dividing it up between the 2. They also agreed on "spheres of influence", where Russia let Germany invade south and east Europe and Germany let Russia invade and occupy the Baltic countries and the invasion of Finland. Finally Stalin had plans of his own to invade Germany. The Germans beat them to the punch.

Also, country to the false claims that Russia has never been defeated is incorrect. The mongols actually kicked their asses and rolled all the way thru Russia, taking Moscow and continuing on further into Eastern Europe.

All humans have the same genes, the same desires for land and resources. There is war in the world every day. For the same reason. Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Poland, Slovakia, Croatia invaded Russia in Operation Barbarossa. Yes, countries DO want to invade Russia. So don't gimme your crap countries don't want to invade Russia.

Putin: If US delivers missiles to Europe, we will mirror this

Russian President Vladimir Putin says Russia will respond in kind if the US withdraws from the Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces Treaty. Putin's warning followed US President Donald Trump's weekend announcement that he intends to opt out of the 1987 landmark nuclear arms control pact - which rid Europe of land-based nuclear missiles - over alleged Russian violations. "If the United States does withdraw from the INF treaty, the main question is what they will do with these newly available missiles. If they will deliver them to Europe, naturally our response will have to mirror this," Putin told reporters in Moscow on Wednesday.

www.aljazeera.com...

Putin wanted Trump he'll just have to live with him

Either way, this is not a good development

a reply to: sdcigarpig

I provided you a source with facts showing the president can indeed pull the US out of any treaty it likes, can you provide a source backing up your 'research'?

Yea, wait til NK hears about this one

a reply to: Willtell

I don't see a problem you had one side ignoring the agreement so what changes? Russia wasn't following the agreement so opting out just means nothing changed. Russia can't threaten to do something they are already doing.

a reply to: yostiller

Long range == medium range.

a reply to: Willtell

What's not good, that Putin ignored the treaty and Obama did nothing? I agree.

originally posted by: yostiller
All humans have the same genes, the same desires for land and resources. There is war in the world every day. For the same reason. Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Poland, Slovakia, Croatia invaded Russia in Operation Barbarossa. Yes, countries DO want to invade Russia. So don't gimme your crap countries don't want to invade Russia.

Actually no they dont and trying to excuse Russia's action by invoking that wont work either.

As for your list of nations you neglect to mention they were either directly occupied by the Nazis or controlled by Nazis via sympathetic political parties. You also are ignoring the fact Russia (USSR) allied with the Nazis, starting WW2, until Barbarossa when the Nazis invaded.

You also are ignoring the fact the USSR invaded the Baltic nations and Finland. You also ignore the fact Staling agreed at the end of the war to allow those countries they occupied to hold free elections. So after being occupied by the Nazis until the end of the war they were then occupied by USSR/Russia until the collapse of the USSR. Even then Russia still attacks these countries and occupied their territory.

Question -
If Boris in tiny country A has 5 tanks and Natasha in country B has 10k tanks why would Boris invade country B?

So no, countries have no desire to invade Russia and the attempt to twist facts from WW2 to suit your agenda doesnt work.

We know these countries have no desire to invade Russia because they know they couldnt do it and win. At the same time Russia occupied them for more than 50 years and parts of some of those countries today. That is the reason E. Europe rushed to join NATO.

To act as a defensive deterrent against continued Russian aggression.

originally posted by: Willtell
Putin: If US delivers missiles to Europe, we will mirror this

Russian President Vladimir Putin says Russia will respond in kind if the US withdraws from the Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces Treaty. Putin's warning followed US President Donald Trump's weekend announcement that he intends to opt out of the 1987 landmark nuclear arms control pact - which rid Europe of land-based nuclear missiles - over alleged Russian violations. "If the United States does withdraw from the INF treaty, the main question is what they will do with these newly available missiles. If they will deliver them to Europe, naturally our response will have to mirror this," Putin told reporters in Moscow on Wednesday.

www.aljazeera.com...

Putin wanted Trump he'll just have to live with him

Either way, this is not a good development

Kind of hard for Russia to respond since their actions of placing nukes with cruise missiles in Kaliningrad already occurred, precipitating all of whats occurred.

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: sdcigarpig

I provided you a source with facts showing the president can indeed pull the US out of any treaty it likes, can you provide a source backing up your 'research'?

He cant because the info doesnt exist.

What does the INF treaty do ? What did it do during the past 30 years ? Who benefits from it ?
These are the real question which once answered will explain the current situation ...

a reply to: Vector99

There are different treaties that could be law binding, but in this case, the treaty was ratified by the congress and in particular the senate. Now if Trump does pull out, which is his right, then the Senate would have to be notified. However, it would then fall back to the Senate to either agree by doing nothing, or disagree and object by majority vote.

The precedent for this, came under the Bush Administration, where he pulled the US out of a treaty. Few in congress objected and there was a law suit that was brought up and the court stated, that it would not rule on that, it would have to be remedied by the congress.

So in short, if the majority in congress does not agree, they could vote to check the president and stop this process in its tracks and keep the US in the treaty.

This is different than the pulling out of the Paris accords on the climate, as that was only signed by the President and not ratified, and thus the political process would be different and up to the next President. Kind of like an EO.

Now here is something to consider:

In 1962, the Soviet Union tried to put nuclear missiles on Cuba to be pointed right at the USA. With the US pulling out of the treaty, there is strong evidence that Russia is looking to repeat that without any complaints from the USA.

Russia is looking to renew its ties with Cuba and is currently looking over sites for a new military base. That is with in the current talks between the 2 leaders of those countries.