Rockafeller, CFR, Free Masonry, Sumerians...

I don't think one can stress the fact enough of just how much people like the Rocakfellers, the Council on Foreign Relations, Free Masonry along with other so-called 'secret societies' as well as the Old Testament and Sumerians are so deeply intwined. Without a doubt, if the thought of people that have guided history with an invisble hand kindle your interest, then research these subjects with a trullly unbiased eye, and draw your own conclusions.

First off, if you can find some information source that can back track history a hundred something years to many, many famous names in time ... find out how many of them were of CFR (the Council on Foreign Relations) ... the result, once known, is deeply disturbing.

I'll give you a hint how deep the rabbit hole goes. Tom Brokav (spelling, anyone?) is just one of thousands that is apart of the CFR ... and there really is no need to go into the Free Masonry issue ... as an example, I'm sure most of you know that every single signer of the Declaration of Independence for America, except for one ... was, infact, a Free Mason.

Though I really doubt much on the net will cover the Tom Brokav issue.

Originally posted by Grey
... and there really is no need to go into the Free Masonry issue ...

There certainly isn't; it's been done here a million times already.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

as an example, I'm sure most of you know that every single signer of the Declaration of Independence for America, except for one ... was, infact, a Free Mason.

Your information there is, in fact, flawed. Try doing some research before you state such things as fact.

Though I really doubt much on the net will cover the Tom Brokav issue.

Are you talking about Tom Brokaw? The anchorman? What about Peter Jennings?!

[edit on 2/24/05 by The Axeman]

Anyone want to turn this into a:
Why Were Freemasons Involved In The American War for Independence and French Revolution thread?

Is someone going to post that Napoleon was anti-Masonic, and that I'm following his conspiracy theories?

They sure were Uber-Political in those days, but let me guess, no planning was done in Lodges?

Originally posted by akilles
Anyone want to turn this into a:
Why Were Freemasons Involved In The American War for Independence and French Revolution thread?

No, but it would be really nice if you would STOP hijacking people's threads!!! Dude you must have a serious case of ADD or something... This is rediculous!

Is someone going to post that Napoleon was anti-Masonic, and that I'm following his conspiracy theories?

They sure were Uber-Political in those days, but let me guess, no planning was done in Lodges?

For Pete's sake man, start your own freakin' thread!!! Do you get off on derailing other people's topics or what?!

Originally posted by akilles
Anyone want to turn this into a:
Why Were Freemasons Involved In The American War for Independence and French Revolution thread?

Ummm. I'll bite.
Miss!!! Miss!!! Is it because there were Freemasons who were American who lived in America and there were Freemasons who were French and lived in France and just like everyone else in their respective countries who wasn't a Freemason they got involved?

Is someone going to post that Napoleon was anti-Masonic, and that I'm following his conspiracy theories?

Nope. Personally I reckon old Boney could have been pro-Freemasonry if anything - but probably only because he wanted to use it for his own devices.

They sure were Uber-Political in those days, but let me guess, no planning was done in Lodges?

Hey you guessed right!!!! They might have talked politics away from Freemasonry, but it's banned from the Lodge.
Of course, you would forbid a Freemason from ever talking politics at all.

Originally posted by Leveller
Ummm. I'll bite.

Aw, come on man, you're encouraging him...


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Can we keep one thread on topic?!

I see by your subtle arrogance, The Axeman, that you do exactly what's opposite of this websites infamous saying. You attempt to debunk my statement, without any proof to back it up. Why don't you heed your own advice, and do your own research. I think it'd do you some good.

And yes, in fact, of the fifty six signers of the Declaration of Independence, only one, as stated before, was known not to be a part of Free Masonry. Why don't you read some works of an early Masonic writer named Manly P. Hall, before flaunting your all knowing wisdom.

And, regaurding the American Revolution, it was not entirely caused by invisible movements ... but a good portion of it was. The reasons are too numerous to go on right now ... but I'll tell you what was caused almost entirely by 'secret societies'.

The French Revolution. And I'm sure I'll get many critics on that one.

And yes, The Axeman, Tom Brokaw. Would you like me to name some others that have a 'seat' on the Council on Foreign Relations? I'd gladly do so.

Original CFR members included Colonel House, former New York senator and Secretary of State Elihu Root, columnist Walter Lippmann, John Foster Dulles and Christian Herter, who both later served as secretaries of state. Also, Dulle's brother Allen, who later served as director of the CIA.

Founding CFR president happened to be millionaire John W. Davis, financier J.P. Morgan's personal attorney. Vice President Paul Cravath also represented Morgan properties at the time.

And, arrogant one, many famous names including Morgan, John D. Rocekfeller (please tell me you know about the Rockefellers, if not then you have no place to critisize), Bernard Baruch, Jacob Schiff, Otto Kahn and Paul Warburg were either apart of the CFR and/or made major funding contributions.

Today's funding for the CFR comes from corporations well known such as Xerox, General Motors, Bristol-Meyers Squibb, Texaco, and others as well as the German Marshall Fund, McKnight Foundation, and others which I'm sure you've never heard about.

Now, would you like me to discuss CFR involvement in government? I'd gladly do so.

Nearly every CIA director since Allen Dulles has been CFR. Including, Richard Helms, William Colby, George Bush, William Webster, James Woolsey, John Deutsch, and William Casey.

Now, please, I'd like to hear your Jennings joke again.

[edit on 24-2-2005 by Grey]

He's going to say:
"Are you implying wrong doing on their part? Whats your proof?"
Apparently the fleecing of the world is ok, if the money goes through Freemasonry, you know, like a good clean Laundromat.

I mean, I mentioned Freemasons visiting my town, and did they make any one a member? Were they invited? So why?

For money, of course. They have to see who has money to decide who becomes a member, or if they even need a local partner at all.

Originally posted by Grey


And yes, in fact, of the fifty six signers of the Declaration of Independence, only one, as stated before, was known not to be a part of Free Masonry.

Actually, the number is 8, not 56. 56 was the total number of signers. The following 8 signers were Masons:

William Ellery, RI
Benjamin Franklin, PA
John Hancock, MA
Joseph Hewes, NC
William Hooper, NC
Robert Treat Paine, MA
Richard Stockton, NJ
George Walton, GA
William Whipple, NH

Why don't you read some works of an early Masonic writer named Manly P. Hall, before flaunting your all knowing wisdom.

Hall was not an "early Masonic writer". In fact, he died in 1990, less than 15 years ago. Furthermore, most of Hall's books on Masonry were written in the 1920's and 30's, although he did not become a Mason himself until 1954. Therefore, most of Hall's Masonic books were written by a non-Mason.

As I mentioned in a previous thread recently, Hall wrote a new preface to "Lost Keys of Freemasonry" when it was reprinted in 1976. In it, he concedes that when he wrote the book, at age 21, the only actual contact he had with Freemasonry was through a few books he'd checked out at his local public library.

but I'll tell you what was caused almost entirely by 'secret societies'.

The French Revolution. And I'm sure I'll get many critics on that one.

You certainly will, because it simply isn't true. The Revolution was not caused by "secret societies", but by famine. On October 5, 1789, 7000 Parisian peasant women marched on Versaille to demand food for their children. They captured Louis XVI, Marie Antoinette, and the children, and brought them to Paris under house arrest. The Revolution could have been stopped by Louis at this point, but he was far too much of an arrogant fool to do so.

This was only 4 months after the Third Estate had entered into the Oath of the Tennis Court, and the whole mess could have been avoided had the peasants' demands been met. But Louis, like his grandfather, sternly believed that he ruled by "divine right", and that God was on his side. He ignored the people's hunger, and his wife mocked it. It's certainly not fantastic that they eventually lost their heads.

Originally posted by akilles
Apparently the fleecing of the world is ok, if the money goes through Freemasonry, you know, like a good clean Laundromat.

What money? Whose money? What the hell are you talking about?

You've been launching your ambiguous ad hominems and cheap shots from your dark little corner, with zero number of real-life examples to back them up, so long it's now become comical.

It's about time for you to either put up, or shut up.

the hard truth is freemasonry is owned and controlled by the global satanic network also known as the SATANIC NEW WORLD ORDER.

freemasons speak not of the mass ritual sacrafices like the staged 911 etc and all similar through history.

for example

tesla style weapons used for ritual sacrafice and nwo brainwashing

26th december 2003, the iran earthquake

26th december 2004, the tsunami (300,000+ ritual murder without a flinch)


its no accident the 26th of december is used as this is the human sacrafice day to the death and rebirth of the sun etc.

the basic ritual codes and symbology are dripping off such events through history, learn the codes, it isnt over yet.

any FREE masons it isnt too late to change and work for TRUTH


[edit on 24-2-2005 by MysticOfRadiance]

Originally posted by MysticOfRadiance
the hard truth is freemasonry is owned and controlled by the global satanic network also known as the SATANIC NEW WORLD ORDER.

Now THAT'S more like it! I was getting tired of this ambiguous number and date crap from akilles that doesn't really mean anything.

Man, you made my day!

They don't believe ANY ONE in Freemasonry could possibly think like that, although they will admit they have never been inside exclusive 33degree clubs.

Then they accuse you of suggesting EVERY ONE in Freemasonry has got the Satanic Blueprint for Conquest in their back pocket, and then they say you are ridiculous.

They don't understand that SERVANTS are naturally drawn to Freemasonry. Its about serving the greater good, which turns into the good of Brothers over individuals who aren't smart enough to be Brothers.

Does Freemasonry take good men, and make them better, or do its teachings? What if another group holds the same exact moral values as Masonry, does it also make good men better?

First off, Masonic Light, I'd like to take this moment to acknowledge your humbleness and sincerity; you do not reek of arrogance and ignorance like another.

Now, to address your post.

"Hall was not an "early Masonic writer". In fact, he died in 1990, less than 15 years ago. Furthermore, most of Hall's books on Masonry were written in the 1920's and 30's, although he did not become a Mason himself until 1954. Therefore, most of Hall's Masonic books were written by a non-Mason."

Excuse me for not being clear about early Masonic writing ... it was a mistake on my part by saying 'early', as early would generaly coincide with a time frame of perhaps more than a century plus, ago, in most minds. I was mainly refering to his book, The Secret Teachings of All Ages. And I used Hall as just a pretext. There are many other writings throughout the years involving Free Masonry, and there is no need to list authors who are genuine or not. Again, it was just a pretext.

"Actually, the number is 8, not 56. 56 was the total number of signers. The following 8 signers were Masons ..."

That, my friend, is wrong. While the 8 you list are the most publically known, the other 42 were also Free Masons or affiliated with Free Masonry. Whatever your opinion, that much is true, and I do not feel a need to argue with a conflicting point of view.

And about your attempt to debunk the French Revolution ...

"You certainly will, because it simply isn't true."

I was waiting for this, I knew it was coming. With all due respect, what you state is a conclusion based on any standard history text book that is given to the mainstream audience. And to deny ignorance is to know that the people who write history, are the people who win. Let me clarify this for you.

Like you stated, popularly believed to begin with a public uprising over lack of food and government representation, is true. But what you obviously haven't studied is the roots. The revolution was in fact instigated by cells of Free Masons and another.

First, let me take an excerpt from The New Encyclopaedia Britannica.

"..there arose a political system and a philosophical outlook that no longer took Christianity for granted, that in fact explicitly opposed it ... The brotherhood taught by such groups as the Freemasons, members of secret fraternal societies, and the Illuminati, a rationalist secret society, provided a rival to the Catholic sense of community."

Nesta H. Webster once wrote, in 1924, "The Masons ... originated the Revolution with the infamous Duke of Orleans at their head."

During the first French Revolution, a key rebel leader was the Duke of Orleans, who was 'grand master' of French Masonry before his resignation at the height of the Revolution. Marquis de Lafayette, whom was initiated into the Masonic way by George Washington, also played an important role.

The Jacobin Club which was part of the source of the revolutionary movement, was founded by Freemasons.

Now, for a history lesson ... the Duke of Orleans, (grand master of the Grand Orient Lodge of Freemasons), bought all the grain in 1789 and either sold it or hid it away, creating near starvation.

Your quote stated, "The Revolution was not caused by "secret societies", but by famine. On October 5, 1789, 7000 Parisian peasant women marched on Versaille to demand food for their children."

You're right, good sir, but you've either failed or overlooked the cause for the famine. I notice many on this board over look things.

Webster also wrote, "If, then, it is said that the [French] Revolution was prepared in the lodges of Freemasons -- and many French Masons have boasted of the fact -- let it always be added that it was Illuminized Freemasonry that made the Revolution, and that the Masons who acclaim it are Illuminized Masons, inheritors of the same tradition introduced into the lodges of France in 1787 by the disciples of Weishaupt."

Perhaps if you look up Jacobins and Jacobites you'll get even more answers.

Now ... the traditional claim of Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette hoarding money to themselves is true ... but also, please remember about the American Revolution. France had spent a considerable amount of money supporting it ... please remember that. French noblemen were summoned to assembly to find out how to pay off this debt ... first they wanted to tax the rich, and that, of course was out of the question. King Louis XVI had a lot more important things on his mind than hoarding more wealth for himself.

Now, about the Great Fear of July 1789, you know, the crowd that stormed the king's chief prison to release seven prisoners. This wasn't just a spur of the moment thing my friend. They were enticed, in that year, employed and paid by revolutionary leaders. It's in fact confirmed by authorities, as one said, 'too numerous to length'. The importation of the contingent of hired of hired brigands refutes the theory that the Revolution was an irrepressible rising of the people.

Most of what is said above was researched by Webster.

You also didn't look at the trigger of the Revolution ... mounted couriers riding from town to town warning fearful peasents that conspirators against the nation were hiding within the aristrocrats refuges. These riders also said that the king ordered them to be attacked. This, coupled with starvation that was caused by the same people who sent riders into the villages, is what started the Revolution.

It's all about the Grand Orient Lodges of Masonry my friend. So there you have it ... the truth of the French Revolution. Deny it all you want ... some higher being granted us the gift of intelligence and with it, comes opinion. Refute the facts all you want, but they are true.

Remember, most of the things that are written in history are there because the writers chose it to be.

[edit on 24-2-2005 by Grey]

Originally posted by akilles
They don't believe ANY ONE in Freemasonry could possibly think like that, although they will admit they have never been inside exclusive 33degree clubs.

Then they accuse you of suggesting EVERY ONE in Freemasonry has got the Satanic Blueprint for Conquest in their back pocket, and then they say you are ridiculous.

They don't understand that SERVANTS are naturally drawn to Freemasonry. Its about serving the greater good, which turns into the good of Brothers over individuals who aren't smart enough to be Brothers.

Does Freemasonry take good men, and make them better, or do its teachings? What if another group holds the same exact moral values as Masonry, does it also make good men better?

WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO STOP BEING A TROLL AND CITE WHERE YOU GOT THE ABOVE INFORMATION!?!?!?!?

What? You can't? What a surprise...

Originally posted by MysticOfRadiance
the hard truth is freemasonry is owned and controlled by the global satanic network also known as the SATANIC NEW WORLD ORDER.

freemasons speak not of the mass ritual sacrafices like the staged 911 etc and all similar through history.

for example

tesla style weapons used for ritual sacrafice and nwo brainwashing

26th december 2003, the iran earthquake

26th december 2004, the tsunami (300,000+ ritual murder without a flinch)


its no accident the 26th of december is used as this is the human sacrafice day to the death and rebirth of the sun etc.

the basic ritual codes and symbology are dripping off such events through history, learn the codes, it isnt over yet.

any FREE masons it isnt too late to change and work for TRUTH

[edit on 24-2-2005 by MysticOfRadiance]

And what makes YOU qualified to speak of this as if it were a fact!?!?

GO AHEAD BUDDY... EITHER TELL US WHERE YOU GOT YOUR FACTS, OR STOP POSTING.


[edit on 24-2-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by Grey
I don't think one can stress the fact enough of just how much people like the Rocakfellers, the Council on Foreign Relations, Free Masonry along with other so-called 'secret societies' as well as the Old Testament and Sumerians are so deeply intwined. Without a doubt, if the thought of people that have guided history with an invisble hand kindle your interest, then research these subjects with a trullly unbiased eye, and draw your own conclusions.

First off, if you can find some information source that can back track history a hundred something years to many, many famous names in time ... find out how many of them were of CFR (the Council on Foreign Relations) ... the result, once known, is deeply disturbing.

I'll give you a hint how deep the rabbit hole goes. Tom Brokav (spelling, anyone?) is just one of thousands that is apart of the CFR ... and there really is no need to go into the Free Masonry issue ... as an example, I'm sure most of you know that every single signer of the Declaration of Independence for America, except for one ... was, infact, a Free Mason.

Though I really doubt much on the net will cover the Tom Brokav issue.

And what problem do you have with the CFR?? Who cares if these guys were members of it? What does that mean to anyone??? And Freemasons??? Who cares that a few (Yes, a few. Nowhere close to all were masons) of the signers were masons!?!? What does THAT mean!? That a few masons and other guys did something really GOOD for their people!?!? Post some conclusive evidence or give it up, buddy.



[edit on 24-2-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by akilles
they will admit they have never been inside exclusive 33degree clubs.

Maybe because they don't exist?

"And what problem do you have with the CFR?? Who cares if these guys were members of it? What does that mean to anyone??? And Freemasons??? Who cares that a few (Yes, a few. Nowhere close to all were masons) of the signers were masons!?!? What does THAT mean!? That a few masons and other guys did something really GOOD for their people!?!? Post some conclusive evidence or give it up, buddy."

Go do some research about the aforementioned. Until then I choose not to answer to such an ignorant post.

And what evidence would that be? Some petty links to sites with no credability? Because I'm sure that's where you got your information of the 'few' Mason signers, as well as probably, by word of mouth/post.

My sources will remain unto me, as I said before, you have the freedom to choose what you believe is right. I'm only posting information like this and others to inform people. I'm not here to force feed the truth to you. You have a brain, use it. Find the paper trail throughout history and you'll find your answers.

Let me edit and clarify one thing that was at my fault. Every signer, except for one, of the Declaration of Independence was either a Freemason or assosciated with Free Masonry. Either or, excuse me for leaving that out. That's an important word there.

[edit on 24-2-2005 by Grey]