"According to some scholars letter "J" is not in the Hebrew or Greek alphabet"

Why the translators of the KJB didn't use the proper name of the messiah in Hebrew which is Yeshua instead of Jesus? "According to some scholars letter "J" is not in the Hebrew or Greek alphabet"

Neither the Hebrew nor the Greek say "Yeshua". That is a Hebrew Roots Movement invention.

The letter "J" did not exist, but the sound did.

The Letter J

In the 1611 printing of the King James Bible the name Jesus was spelled Iesus. The letter “I” was changed into the letter J forming a new letter (in English). Some claim the J sound did not exist before the 16th century but many scholars have proven that it did.

It’s not like when the letter “J” was invented, then people suddenly began to say words like Jesus, Jehovah, just, joy, judgment, Jacob, Jeremiah, Jerusalem, Jew, judges and justification, whereas before they pronounced all these words with an “I” instead.

But the “J” SOUND was always there in the first place. They just made a new letter to represent this sound. They did not invent a new sound.

Individual letters, particularly in English, often have multiple sounds or even no sound. Just as an example, let’s take the letter “G”

Sometimes it has a hard sound as in “good” or “God”. Other times it has a soft sound as the second “g” in the word “garage” or “page”. And sometimes the letter “g” it totally silent as in “though”, “plough”, “fought” or “taught” or it can be pronounced like an “f” as in the word “cough” or “tough”

Not only was Jesus spelled like Iesus, but so were all words that now begin with a J like Ierusalem, Iews, Iacob, Iordan, Ioshua, Iebusites, IEHOVAH, iuniper, and iudgements.

The first English language book to make a clear distinction between “i” (I) and “j” (J) was published in 1633.

The letter “I” represented at least 2 different sounds. When followed by a consonant “I” was pronounced Israel. When followed by a vowel it was pronounced Jezebel or Jezreel.

It is not correct to claim that “J” has to be pronounced “ya” or “ye”.

In the Hebrew alphabet there is no “Y” or “W”. So it is also incorrect to pronounce the name Jehovah as Yahweh.

Every Bible I am aware of in the English language and in Spanish and many other languages spells numerous Hebrew names with the letter J, including Jews, Jerusalem, JEHOiakim, JEHiah, JEHOshaphat, JEHOhanan, JEHOiachin, JEHOiada, JEHOram and JEHOshua.

I have yet to see one of these English bibles come out yet spelling these as Yahhosaphat, Yahoiakim, Yahoiada etc.”

I hope this clears up the whole issue for those who claim something that was never true as being truth.

Luke 11:35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.

Indiana Jones and the last Crusade.

Begins with an I.



Latin Alphabet eh.

a reply to: neo96
That is pretty funny.

But we are talking about ENGLISH not Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Chaldean, Arabic, Palestinian, Egyptian or any other language. This is the issue and the false teaching of the "Hebrew Roots Movement".

This is important to understand we are not talking about any language but the Inspired English Authorized Version.

I, J, Y...

they are all related. Root sounds. Same as with U, V and W. Think about W. Double U... UU The sound is OOI. We say Wine, others say Vino. We we? oiu oiu?

You simply cannot take the word of one language, transliterate it into another language, and consider it the same. English has taken so many words from other languages and altered them to fit the way it pronounced things.

Languages are fascinating. And even the archaic word wed, older than any modern language, meant water.

because it isnt also.

only priests know how it is truely pronounced.

And the Lord said to Moses, “This very thing that you have spoken I will do, for you have found favor in my sight, and I know you by name.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

This is important to understand we are not talking about any language but the Inspired English Authorized Version

But we are.

Modern english is a derivation from the latin alphabet.

a reply to: Parishna

When someone understands this they would not be misled about something we should never waist time on.

1Tim 6:3-5 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

We are to be obedient to this as we would of any other part of God's commands.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: neo96
That is pretty funny.

But we are talking about ENGLISH not Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Chaldean, Arabic, Palestinian, Egyptian or any other language. This is the issue and the false teaching of the "Hebrew Roots Movement".

This is important to understand we are not talking about any language but the Inspired English Authorized Version.

I don't want to derail the thread, but I have a question: When you say "Inspired English Authorized Version" are you are referring to the KJV? Why do you consider a TRANSLATION to be inspired?

a reply to: neo96

It doesn't matter we are not talking about Latin, a dead language like Koine Greek is dead, as is the Palestinian Hebrew of 350BC to 70AD (Hebrew today is not the same as it was back then).

We don't need to go back to roots in other languages when we have the inspired English Bible in out hands. That is the false teaching of the Scholars guild to separate you from your money and make a legacy for themselves and not for God.

Not only were the originals (none existing today) were inspired, so God in preserving his word as spoken of in Psalm 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.. The Scholars what you to believe that God did not keep his word in preserving his words to every generation forever. They teach and deny God can RE-INSPIRE his words all the while denying scriptures that show not only how God RE-INSPIRED not only the original but adding to them even more words.

Jer 36:20 -23And they went in to the king into the court, but they laid up the roll in the chamber of Elishama the scribe, and told all the words in the ears of the king. So the king sent Jehudi to fetch the roll: and he took it out of Elishama the scribe's chamber. And Jehudi read it in the ears of the king, and in the ears of all the princes which stood beside the king. Now the king sat in the winterhouse in the ninth month: and there was a fire on the hearth burning before him. And it came to pass, that when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth.

So what you just read is how the King destroyed the original inspired word in Hebrew.

Now pay close attention to this

Jer 36:27-28, 32 Then the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, after that the king had burned the roll, and the words which Baruch wrote at the mouth of Jeremiah, saying, Take thee again another roll, and write in it all the former words that were in the first roll, which Jehoiakim the king of Judah hath burned. . . . Then took Jeremiah another roll, and gave it to Baruch the scribe, the son of Neriah; who wrote therein from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the book which Jehoiakim king of Judah had burned in the fire: and there were added besides unto them many like words.

Not only did God re-inspired the original but he also added words to the original.

You see the false teaching in "Christian Seminaries and Universities" that God only inspired the originals, in other languages but that he did not in English is false. The Latin Vulgate was a Version and so was the Old Latin to which the Vulgate replaced. Which one was inspired? The Old Latin was it was around for 250 years before the Vulgate was created.

These universities are the ones behind the 350Plus English versions out there today. They are making money off Bibles and you can't use their versions without paying them for it. The Universities want you to believe that God doesn't inspire a version. Did you know that all except the Geneva, of the 350 Bible did not come out until after 1880? The Authorized Version of the King James Bible is the preserved words of God by God providence and power to preserve it in English, done so in 1611 at which they tried to use the Hebrew Transliteration of the J words. But finding many were confused they created a New English Letter to clarify the scriptures for the common folk, they created the J.

ChesterJohn, I appreciate your explanation, and would like to believe that God did indeed, re-inspire the AV. However, I do find in its pages a doctrine my researches have found to have come from a pagan source. I refer, of course, to the doctrine of ECT (Eternal Conscious Torment) Hell. To explain my position:

1. There is no mention of Hell in God’s Creation of the Cosmos - therefore, Hell is uncreated by God or anyone else. See Genesis 1:1, Isaiah 65:17, Jeremiah 7:31, 19:5. John 1:3 explicitly states that God made all, and that no other person or agency made anything. The Bible contains many instances of “heaven and earth” paired together as a term…without “hell.”

2. In the first chapter of Genesis, it is stated six times that God saw that what He had made was good, excluding Hell as being possible, as the Creation could not have been wholly good had Hell been in existence. See Genesis 1:10,12,18,21,25,31.

3. The Creation is properly a hierarchy, not a dualistic Heaven versus Hell – with the Earth and humans as a contested prize, fought over by God and Satan. See Genesis 1:1, Job 1 & 2, John 1:3, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 5:13.

4. God made both good and evil, for the same Hand that planted the Tree of Life also planted the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Therefore, Satan did not make or create evil. See Genesis 2:9, Isaiah 45:7, Lamentations 3:38, Amos 3:6.

5. The Bible makes no connection between Satan and Hell, so Satan is NOT the Prince of Hell. See Job 1:6-7, 2:1-2, Zechariah 3:1-2, Revelation 2:13, 12:9.

6. The prince of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 is not Satan, as it specifically refers to him as a man. See Ezekiel 26 - 28.

7. The Law God gave to Moses warned of death, but did not specify punishment in Hell, or warn of it. Punishments were delivered in the real world, and the most severe was simple death. See Genesis 2:17, Exodus through Deuteronomy, Romans 6:23.

8. All the consequences of human disobedience to God are worked out in the real, here-and-now world – not in Hell. This includes death, destruction, perishing, God’s wrath and His cursings. See Deuteronomy 28:15-68, 30:19, Ezekiel 32:32, Romans 13:4.

9. All people die, but none of them go to Eternal Conscious Torment – only to the grave or pit. See every instance of personal death in the Bible, with “hell” (if present) properly replaced with “sheol” or “hades,” as so often noted in the margin or center-column reference.

10. For the Hebrews, “sheol,” hidden, covered and unknown, was the state, condition or place of the dead. It was where the body returned to the dust and the spirit returned to God (Who gave it). See Genesis 3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

11. Eternal Conscious Torment depends on the concept of the Immortality of the Soul, and that comes, not from the Bible, but from Greek philosophy, from Socrates and Plato.

12. Hell, by definition, opposes the Gospel (the Good News) because Hell can only be Bad News for those sent there – and thus, for most of living (and dead) humanity.

13. Hell violates God’s Law, specifically the Law of the Jubilee, which sets all those in servitude free. Those who die are freed from sin, as prophesied by the Law of the Jubilee. See Leviticus 25:8-13, Isaiah 1:18, Romans 6:7,16.

14. The idea of damnation of people to Hell is at least absurd, and possibly blasphemous, due to the presence of God’s Spirit of Life in each of us. See Genesis 1:26-27, 2:7,3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

The letter J didnt come into existence till K.J and then there thephonetics, like in Spanish, the letter J isnt really able to be pronounced or spelled with J, but H does some how. Not a linguistic, but to write Jesus in spanish, it is spelled Hey-Zeus. Whether it has any real connection to the Greek god is up for debate an may just be coincidence.

All three books have there native tongues though, Ot hebrew, the N.t a blend of hebrew with greek influences, and, and the Quran Arabic.

Problem with English being a universal language looks like what lies in what context is meant by it tone or structure. A translation could sound completely well thought and meant, but then there could be a word that could mean 2 or more things. Odd time it could even be vulgar like or cursive.

Hitlers Mein Kampf an example of lost translation since translating it from German to English, sounds like a bunch of proverbs that would probably sound silly.


Supposedly apple meant evil in Hebrew, but again, not a translator or scholar.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Wow what a mess
You have confused so many covenants together and made up your on religion

Jesus died, brought a new covenant to humanity, all mankind if they choose

Prior to Jesus there was a Judaic covenant and a Jewish law, they are now finished for those in Christ
You seem confused

Also not all Christians believe the KJV is perfect, many think it has errors, only certain fundamentalists need the bible to prove Jesus, othere don't need the bible to prove Jesus, we have the Holy Spirit

a reply to: ChesterJohn
Yes, I once had to use the old catalogue of the Bodleian Library, and that still counted I and J as the same letter for indexing purposes. As does the eighteenth century Crudens Concordance. Everything beginning with either letter run together into one group.
I suppose part of the explanation is that pronunciation evolves and spelling might be slow to catch up. When King Charles was placed on trial (1649), one of the charges was "murther", but it was probably already being pronounced as "murder".

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Lazarus Short

Wow what a mess
You have confused so many covenants together and made up your on religion

Jesus died, brought a new covenant to humanity, all mankind if they choose

Prior to Jesus there was a Judaic covenant and a Jewish law, they are now finished for those in Christ
You seem confused

Also not all Christians believe the KJV is perfect, many think it has errors, only certain fundamentalists need the bible to prove Jesus, othere don't need the bible to prove Jesus, we have the Holy Spirit

How did I confuse covenants? My point, my only point, was about Hell. I think you have sidestepped, but I am sensitive to that particular debate trick.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
ChesterJohn, I appreciate your explanation, and would like to believe that God did indeed, re-inspire the AV. However, I do find in its pages a doctrine my researches have found to have come from a pagan source. I refer, of course, to the doctrine of ECT (Eternal Conscious Torment) Hell. To explain my position:

1. There is no mention of Hell in God’s Creation of the Cosmos - therefore, Hell is uncreated by God or anyone else. See Genesis 1:1, Isaiah 65:17, Jeremiah 7:31, 19:5. John 1:3 explicitly states that God made all, and that no other person or agency made anything. The Bible contains many instances of “heaven and earth” paired together as a term…without “hell.”

2. In the first chapter of Genesis, it is stated six times that God saw that what He had made was good, excluding Hell as being possible, as the Creation could not have been wholly good had Hell been in existence. See Genesis 1:10,12,18,21,25,31.

3. The Creation is properly a hierarchy, not a dualistic Heaven versus Hell – with the Earth and humans as a contested prize, fought over by God and Satan. See Genesis 1:1, Job 1 & 2, John 1:3, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 5:13.

First, I want only to say that over the last centuries many a false doctrne has been created using scriptures as a support for them. But when one examines the scriptures in context and in the cross-referencing them they can learn the truth. Take no mans word for anything no matter how Godly they may appear.

The Lake of Fire Jesus called Hell and everlasting fire Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: was actually created before the six days of God's work to make the earth a habitable place for his creation of Man and animals.

It was in Genesis 1 God established a measurement of time called a Night and a Day (vv3-5, and a system for us to measure it by (vs14). If you read your KJV Bible through as much as I have you will see that there are somethings God does not tell us to much about. He doesn't tell us much about the New Heaven in which we will live in Rev 21, he doesn't tell us much about the fall of Lucifer Isa 14:12-15, Ezk 28:13-15, and the angles that followed him.

God does however give us enough information so we are not ignorant of the Devils ways and where men who do not take the sacrifice of God, Jesus Christ, go to after they die. Also men are not trophies of God or the Devil or heaven or hell, nor are they chosen to be sent to one place or the other. That choice is that of man and him alone.

4. God made both good and evil, for the same Hand that planted the Tree of Life also planted the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Therefore, Satan did not make or create evil. See Genesis 2:9, Isaiah 45:7, Lamentations 3:38, Amos 3:6.

5. The Bible makes no connection between Satan and Hell, so Satan is NOT the Prince of Hell. See Job 1:6-7, 2:1-2, Zechariah 3:1-2, Revelation 2:13, 12:9.

6. The prince of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 is not Satan, as it specifically refers to him as a man. See Ezekiel 26 - 28.

First the sin of Adam was a choice to heed God's words or not too. He failed and took the fruit from his wife and ate. The result is past down to all of us in a nature that is prone to sin. We do not get to face the test that he did, we do get to face the choice of whether to take of the Bread of life, and get a new life in Christ.

While Ezekiel speaks of Satan as a man it is a foreshadowing of the incarnation of Satan known as the Anti-Christ. Many aspects of what Satan as a man will be like are found in the surrounding scriptures of Isa 14 and Ezk 28.

And the whole teaching of Satan being the prince of Hell is a Roman Catholic Doctrine based of the Levels of hell as the Greeks believed. No, you are correct Satan is not ruler in hell, as a matter of fact he is as far from it as he can because that is where he will be for all eternity once sent there.

7. The Law God gave to Moses warned of death, but did not specify punishment in Hell, or warn of it. Punishments were delivered in the real world, and the most severe was simple death. See Genesis 2:17, Exodus through Deuteronomy, Romans 6:23.

8. All the consequences of human disobedience to God are worked out in the real, here-and-now world – not in Hell. This includes death, destruction, perishing, God’s wrath and His cursings. See Deuteronomy 28:15-68, 30:19, Ezekiel 32:32, Romans 13:4.

9. All people die, but none of them go to Eternal Conscious Torment – only to the grave or pit. See every instance of personal death in the Bible, with “hell” (if present) properly replaced with “sheol” or “hades,” as so often noted in the margin or center-column reference.

10. For the Hebrews, “sheol,” hidden, covered and unknown, was the state, condition or place of the dead. It was where the body returned to the dust and the spirit returned to God (Who gave it). See Genesis 3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

11. Eternal Conscious Torment depends on the concept of the Immortality of the Soul, and that comes, not from the Bible, but from Greek philosophy, from Socrates and Plato.

12. Hell, by definition, opposes the Gospel (the Good News) because Hell can only be Bad News for those sent there – and thus, for most of living (and dead) humanity.

13. Hell violates God’s Law, specifically the Law of the Jubilee, which sets all those in servitude free. Those who die are freed from sin, as prophesied by the Law of the Jubilee. See Leviticus 25:8-13, Isaiah 1:18, Romans 6:7,16.

14. The idea of damnation of people to Hell is at least absurd, and possibly blasphemous, due to the presence of God’s Spirit of Life in each of us. See Genesis 1:26-27, 2:7,3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

While it would be nice for there not to be eternal damnation Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: the problem is we would be calling Jesus Christ a liar, and would be in danger of blasphemy of the Holy Ghost in saying God's words are not true seeing they are inspired by the Holy Ghost. But there is no soul sleep, or annihilation of the soul as taught by JW's, Mormons and other cults who use a Bible to promote false doctrine but don't believe the Bible truths, this is why verse are taken out of context, otherwise they have no ground to say,"Yea, hath God said,(add teaching) ?"

You , I and all other men have souls, It is proven out in every case of an amputee. They call is Phantom Limb Syndrome, failure to know how the soul is separated from the flesh by a circumcision made without hands, is one reason people don't understand. The phantom people see is the soul manifesting itself to those whose limb is gone. Our soul is shaped like our bodies like an inner tube of a bike is shaped like a tire and it is separated from the body at death. When the resurrection takes place the soul is reunited with the body and then these men are judged out of the books. The Christian dead or alive is already separated from his flesh so that sin no more affects his eternal condition. Paul taught most on this, for it is essential tot he Christian to know this truth. Use a concordance or search feature of the word flesh, then Read Romans, 1&2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, and Colosians.

I think the translators of the KJB didn't use the proper name of the messiah because it was... a translation.

And if you look at any art of the crucifixion we see above the cross - INRI: Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum.

And, again, that's because Latin has no J.

Lazarus Short

14. The idea of damnation of people to Hell is at least absurd, and possibly blasphemous, due to the presence of God’s Spirit of Life in each of us. See Genesis 1:26-27, 2:7,3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

Though God's spirit is in us that spirit i n and of itself is only a life force of the soul and body. It does not need to be preserved in a holy state because it came from God. Eccl 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? That would be a false teaching as well.

Again while it would be nice to have there be no death or damnation of any one the fact it it is true.

a reply to: unifaun

You put your trust in Pictures/images (art) and not the word of God? Pictures are images to which we are warned not to look upon or trust in.

Trust the Bible not in pictures made by men.

Again it is not about Latin or any other DEAD language. It is about English to English speaking people of the worldwide trade language of today.

J or no J, Yeshua, Yehovah Jehovah etc. etc. etc.

God must have been involved in the translations of the Bible into English, so He must be ok with the name "Jesus."

Bottom line.