A Brief History of Repressive Regimes and Their Gun Laws

a reply to: chr0naut

Do you honestly think that having guns will protect you from oppressive government? They out gun you and have a soldiery, weapons & delivery systems you could never counter.

Yet , the military swears to protect the Constitution . Set in stone to prevent an oppressive government here in the US
You can forget that happening.
Forever.

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: chr0naut

Do you honestly think that having guns will protect you from oppressive government? They out gun you and have a soldiery, weapons & delivery systems you could never counter.

Yet , the military swears to protect the Constitution . Set in stone to prevent an oppressive government here in the US
You can forget that happening.
Forever.

It is unconstitutional for the US to go to war without an explicit declaration of war. The last declaration of war was during the second world war. Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf wars, Afghanistan and all other times when US troops fought in a war without an official declaration of war, are unconstitutional.

The President is supposed to appoint judges of the Supreme court in consultation and approval with the senate (article 2 section 2). Yet the senate has either not been included or was included long after the fact. The failure to achieve consensus prior to appointment is unconstitutional.

Trump has said that Mexican Americans "cannot fairly discharge their duties" (as judges, as federal employees, as whatever) which is racial profiling in that regard and is contrary to the Constitutional Equal Protection Clause.

Similarly, Trump has mandated that all students must "salute the flag", even Muslim ones, which is contrary to the First Amendment.

The surveillance of the entire population of the US by the NSA is an unconstitutional act against personal privacy and continues to be signed off by the current President.

The building of transit camps and other infrastructure necessary to deport eleven million undocumented immigrants, merely accused but not convicted of crimes, violates the Due Process Clause.

The US military's absence of defense of the US Constitution in light of the government's continual infraction against Constitution, is itself anti-Constitutional. I'm also pretty sure that the military no longer defends the constitution but now defends the Presidency.

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: 727Sky

Do you honestly think that having guns will protect you from oppressive government? They out gun you and have a soldiery, weapons & delivery systems you could never counter. It would be hand guns vs heavy artillery and anti-personnel guided rockets.

It would be the Waco siege From Wikipedia, times one million.

An armed resistance to the government would, instead, mean that an opressive government is more likely to attack pre-emptively than to use diplomacy.

The second amendment might have worked in the 1800's now it is just an enabler of suicide and crime by firearm.

In the light of actual events, the OP's argument is invalid.

With arguments as bad as these, it is clear that the gun lobby are fearful, cowardly and unable to contribute peacefully to achieve a better, safer, life with wealth and liberty for all.

Now, there is a persuasive argument: Don't bother to have guns because the government will just butcher you and your family anyway.

I was almost convinced to toss my guns in the recycle bin right away.

But then I figured, what the heck. If the government wants to murder me they can damn well buy 100 gallons of diesel fuel for that Abrams and expend a few 120mm rounds. As a taxpayer, I demand nothing less.

a reply to: verschickter

Hey, thanks A LOT for all the info! Nowadays you cant trust anything but first hand info, and I got a lesson today!
Your Criminal justice system sounds parallel with ours.
In the US, if you are convicted of a felony you lose your right to bear arms though, is this the same in the fatherland?
If you are a convicted felon, and you get caught with ANY firearm, or even ammunition, you will be charged with ANOTHER felony and face 10 years in prison.
Im curious because going back to that music video, Gzuz is seen with a ridiculous amount of hardware. I also know that Gzuz just served 3 years in prison for a robbery, so hes a felon. If a US rapper who was just released from prison made a video like his, it would be enough to send him back for at least 10 years.

a reply to: verschickter

First of all, thank you for the information! I have learned a lot reading your posts in this thread.

However it´s different in germany than the US, where it has historical reasons.

I guess one could say that. I tend to look at it as the fact that Americans really are that arrogant as a whole. Try to take anything from us by threat of force, and you've got a fight... even if the purpose is benevolent. I can only assume that is rooted in the way our country was founded and the resulting cultural pride at having driven out what was, at the time, the largest military might on the planet.

The "gun culture" one sees on the news is the result of someone feeling their right is being stripped from them, and if the Constitution be followed, it is being done so. The stereotype of a bunch of rednecks riding around in the back of a rusted pickup truck waving guns and firing into the air... well, let's just say I live in rural Alabama where rednecks outnumber humans probably 2-to-1. I have never seen the mental image I just painted.

Instead I see a bunch of friends getting together for a day to kill some tin cans or paper targets. We have gun ranges in most towns, but outside of that it is just less hassle to meet up on one person's land and shoot. I know that at least 50% of the people I meet on the street are armed... and that means a little more civility between people. Gun safety is almost a religious tenet... probably because those who do not practice it usually don't live long enough to breed. And even though the number who do not understand gun safety is rising, it is being counteracted by free and low-cost gun safety courses popping up all over. Hunting is its own culture, and real hunters despise those who don't know how to safely use a gun.

That's the actual US gun culture, and to be honest it sounds a lot like what you describe.

The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is, yes, to stave off a tyrannical government. But that does not mean going Rambo on a Sherman tank. That is suicide. However, guerilla warfare does work if there are enough resistance fighters. But even more important is the ability to protect oneself from those criminals who an oppressive government would allow to roam in order to get more power.

In the city, that might make sense; but America is not just cities. Where I live, the vast, vast majority of the county is country with 'clusters' of maybe 10-20 homes a half-mile from each other, separated by several miles of nothing but fields and wilderness. In that kind of an area, no government can protect us, and we realize that. So we arm ourselves, and handle any problems as best we can. The law just shows up to clean up the mess afterwards.

I just had a recent heart attack. It took the EMTs 10 minutes to get to me. The ambulance was 5 minutes later. If police are needed, that wait time goes up to maybe 30 minutes for an emergency call. A few places can take longer than that even. If I am being attacked or robbed, simply calling the police is useless; I'd be dead and my place ransacked with the robber/killer long gone before the police arrived, and out here, they would do nothing but call the coroner and take some pictures. What else can they do? So I, like almost every other home, have at least one gun. It's not to shoot at an ICBM; it's there to ensure that the government at least tries to do its job, because the alternative is not being needed at all.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: chr0naut

Do you honestly think that having guns will protect you from oppressive government? They out gun you and have a soldiery, weapons & delivery systems you could never counter.

Yet , the military swears to protect the Constitution . Set in stone to prevent an oppressive government here in the US
You can forget that happening.
Forever.

It is unconstitutional for the US to go to war without an explicit declaration of war. The last declaration of war was during the second world war. Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf wars, Afghanistan and all other times when US troops fought in a war without an official declaration of war, are unconstitutional.

The President is supposed to appoint judges of the Supreme court in consultation and approval with the senate (article 2 section 2). Yet the senate has either not been included or was included long after the fact. The failure to achieve consensus prior to appointment is unconstitutional.

Trump has said that Mexican Americans "cannot fairly discharge their duties" (as judges, as federal employees, as whatever) which is racial profiling in that regard and is contrary to the Constitutional Equal Protection Clause.

Similarly, Trump has mandated that all students must "salute the flag", even Muslim ones, which is contrary to the First Amendment.

The surveillance of the entire population of the US by the NSA is an unconstitutional act against personal privacy and continues to be signed off by the current President.

The building of transit camps and other infrastructure necessary to deport eleven million undocumented immigrants, merely accused but not convicted of crimes, violates the Due Process Clause.

The US military's absence of defense of the US Constitution in light of the government's continual infraction against Constitution, is itself anti-Constitutional. I'm also pretty sure that the military no longer defends the constitution but now defends the Presidency.

What I see in all that mess is someone attempting to appear knowledgeable in the Constitution , the 3 Branches of Government , and how it all comes together...
And failing to do so.

a reply to: Brian4real

It´s a bit complicated.

If you have "just/only" been convicted for a misdemeanor it depends. The judge will give you a set of days and an amount (depends on your income, basically what you earn on a day).

60 days x 90€ = 5400€
(edit: miscalculated here.. that would really be a heavy sentence)


if you´re over those 59 days, you loose the ability to posses firearms (even .22) for 10 years.

However if you are convicted for violence of any kind, road rage or fetched drunk on a bicycle, car, on foot causing trouble...
you´ll loose it too.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Let me give you an example.

If someone knows you have a gun... the whole town will know soon. We don´t take them out of the safe to show around, as nobody is really interested.

It´s seen either as a freaky sport, or not at all and they think you use it for nefarious stuff or home protection.
You´re seen as dangerous... There´s just no real justification for us other than using them on the range.

You can however shoot guns at home, if you have a gunrange.


In that music video, I guess most are replicas or "blanket guns". Anyone over 18 years old can buy a "blanket gun". It doesn´t shoot a projectilce, just blanks. But there are attachments for newyears shooting, you basically ignite the little rockets on the attatchment with the blank cartridge.

There are so called "starling startlers" though. It´s a little projectile that flies away from the attachment and explodes / bursts in midair air but they are forbidden now, I think.

blank gun with attachment for different cartridges:

And as you can see around 0:35, this guy got ahold of it and never used a real gun. He points it towards his face / the camera....

At night
YPv6pgAZRzk

They are allowed to use only on new-years morning.


How you´re doing? Hope the wounds are healing

a reply to: verschickter

If someone knows you have a gun... the whole town will know soon. We don´t take them out of the safe to show around, as nobody is really interested.

Around here, ownership of a gun is almost assumed. No one needs to take it out and show it around; people just expect there's at a minimum a shotgun in every house. Should someone be discovered not to have a firearm at home, that home becomes a target. Of course, we also have our unofficial neighborhood watch; despite being so far apart physically, neighbors tend to know one another fairly well and will stop and check any suspicious activity. That goes double when the man is away, as during my recent surgery. My neighbor stopped by several times to see who was in the yard... not out of nosiness, but out of concern. I have done the same to him in the past.

We also don't need a private gun range to shoot at home. We just set some targets and shoot, as long as there's no chance of damage downrange. In my case, that means we shoot into the side of a small mountain... if we miss, no harm. Anyone who tries to shoot towards someone like that will quickly learn the error of their ways.

There again, I think it is the lack of highly responsive law enforcement that causes this culture. There is simply no one else here to rely on besides oneself and one's neighbors. Actual shootings of a human are rare, because of that threat. The media has whipped it up into some caricature "gun culture," but that is just hype. To be honest, I think we appreciate that hype: the threat of violence is more of a deterrent than violence.

How you´re doing? Hope the wounds are healing

Sitting here with a foot-long scar down my chest and three suture for the drainage tubes, feeling in my chest like I'm wearing a seat belt... but better than lying in a hospital bed.

Thanks to you and everyone else who has mentioned it.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: chr0naut

Do you honestly think that having guns will protect you from oppressive government? They out gun you and have a soldiery, weapons & delivery systems you could never counter.

Yet , the military swears to protect the Constitution . Set in stone to prevent an oppressive government here in the US
You can forget that happening.
Forever.

It is unconstitutional for the US to go to war without an explicit declaration of war. The last declaration of war was during the second world war. Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf wars, Afghanistan and all other times when US troops fought in a war without an official declaration of war, are unconstitutional.

The President is supposed to appoint judges of the Supreme court in consultation and approval with the senate (article 2 section 2). Yet the senate has either not been included or was included long after the fact. The failure to achieve consensus prior to appointment is unconstitutional.

Trump has said that Mexican Americans "cannot fairly discharge their duties" (as judges, as federal employees, as whatever) which is racial profiling in that regard and is contrary to the Constitutional Equal Protection Clause.

Similarly, Trump has mandated that all students must "salute the flag", even Muslim ones, which is contrary to the First Amendment.

The surveillance of the entire population of the US by the NSA is an unconstitutional act against personal privacy and continues to be signed off by the current President.

The building of transit camps and other infrastructure necessary to deport eleven million undocumented immigrants, merely accused but not convicted of crimes, violates the Due Process Clause.

The US military's absence of defense of the US Constitution in light of the government's continual infraction against Constitution, is itself anti-Constitutional. I'm also pretty sure that the military no longer defends the constitution but now defends the Presidency.

What I see in all that mess is someone attempting to appear knowledgeable in the Constitution , the 3 Branches of Government , and how it all comes together...
And failing to do so.

Fair enough, I might be ignorant. Comfort yourself with that.

a reply to: verschickter

A genuine thank you for all your replies and first hand information!!!
Youve cleared up lots of curiosity I had!

Being that I am decended 100% from German ancestors, I must make the trip some time in my life!

a reply to: Brian4real

I live in Germany