originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: SourcePage
Upon reflection, my comment above looks like it leans toward universal salvation.
That's not true, I was replying to the people in the thread so far whom I know to be all professing Christians, and Christians believe Christ died to
redeem us. If we believe in Him and what He did ... the central reasoning in this series of Disraeli's threads, then I don't believe we will see Hell,
but we will face Judgment. All do that.
I like me some history. I just delved into my memory banks, so thank you for the poke, I have enjoyed the contemplations on history and religion you
Reflecting on ancient Christian teachings, speckled with some Plato metaphysics, I *think* the conditions of Salvation and Damnation work like this in
the oldest traditions :
Only through Jesus you can reach the Father. Through faith. Through being Christlike.
Christ and Plato's metaphysics are kinda in alignment regarding the projection of the form creating the half real reflection of the physical world.
If we are not understanding being Christlike (reflecting Christ in your daily lives) and/or Platos metaphysics we would mistakenly call THIS
existence REALITY, which it is not, it is a reflection of an Original.
The condition of life on earth (half existence or reflection of original existence) allows you through Christ to become part of the original condition
(heaven or true Reality ), that is be with God in the heaven condition, as they were before original sin. Remember God said to the first man ' where
are you?' I believe the ancient Genesis text simplistically describes how humans broke away from their original condition (disobedience in the ACTUAL
reality) in paradise (btw the apple is a metaphor it wasn't really an apple)
It is the receiving and building up of Grace through life that will lead you to heaven
When you die having either Built up Grace or not, you will:
1. Be in heaven
,which if you are Christlike you already are kinda there in life. "On earth as it is in heaven"
Saints have received the Grace required to Go straight to Door 1 (eternal)
2. Go to Purgatory
/Paradise (people debate if heaven and paradise are the same) let's just call this a higher condition where you are in a
state of cleansing or purifying in order to go into heaven.
Luke 16:22 Purgatory = "bosom of Abraham" where Lazaraus was taken by angels, which both the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church,
following early Christian writers, understand as a temporary state of souls awaiting entrance into Heaven.
The Harrowing of Hell was when Christ changed the "Condition" of the righteous after death. Allowing for Condition 1 and 2 for humans.
The final condition in 1 or 2 is the Resurrection of the Dead and the return to the ACTUAL reality of God condition aka heaven, aka "on earth as it
is in heaven"
3. Be in/ Be broken down in "LIMBO' or hell/ Sh'eol,
the condition of hell is the opposite of heaven and where/when what remains of you is
broken down to nothing in this condition (non eternal)
When the Hebrew scriptures were translated into Greek in Alexandria around 200 BC, the word "Hades" (Hell /Greek underworld) was substituted for
The end condition of 3 Hell, is the breakdown of your existence to nothing. The means of breaking down whether in flames or recycling of energy or
smiting is irrelevant imo.
In this condition they have no access to condition 1 or 2 (original reality with God aka Heaven) their end condition is they eventually cease to
exist, and that is what I believe is the point of condition 3.
At the end of the day it is your building up of Grace in life which takes you to Door 1 2 or 3
How to build up grace through works or just faith or works and faith is up to the busy doctrinal bees to battle out.
In a nutshell, Luke 16 describes Doors 1 through to 3
…22One day the beggar died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side. And the rich man also died and was buried. 23In Hades, where he was in
torment, he looked up and saw Abraham from afar, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me..."
We take ourselves to each of these conditions by our building of grace in the existence in the half reality. We aren't sent to these conditions,
Receiving grace IS ALREADY A JUDGEMENT.
The judgments, that is the rules to becoming one of these three conditions were already in existence before before we were born, how you have
faith and live is what condition you become. The end judgement has already happened SOMEWHERE/WHEN. Judgement is simultaneous with your first
moment and your entire life and afterlife. Our half reality timeline is not Christ/Heavens timeline.
The "end judgment" is possibly being with Jesus in the condition of 1 or 2 after YOU became by YOUR lives and faith that condition. Bit like the
Harry Potter's "the sorting hat " , it already knows where you need to be by WHO you ARE.
According to Jesus, the end condition for this half reality is "Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven". That came out of
Christ's mouth. Pretty simple huh.
I've always admired the Orthodox church that mostly didn't include Revelation in their bible as it contradicts their Lords words which technically
should have been the last word on the subject and perfect.
edit on 18-10-2018 by zazzafrazz because: (no reason given)