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NTS The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world

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posted on Sep, 7 2018 @ 05:01 PM
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He saw Jesus coming toward him and said “Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world” – John ch1 v29

The teaching of the New Testament centres upon what Jesus achieved when he died upon the Cross. The key point is that something was done about the problem of sin.
Since this was a unique event, it can’t be explained without metaphor.
So we find it described, for example, in terms of removing some kind of encumbrance.

One of the remedies for sin offered in the Old Testament was that sin should be “carried away”.
This was the function of the scapegoat;
“Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the people of Israel, and all their transgressions, all their sins, and he shall put them upon the head of the goat… The goat shall bear all their iniquities upon him in a solitary land; and he shall let the goat go in the wilderness” (Leviticus ch16 vv21-22).
The expression which modern scholars like to translate as “to Azazel” probably means “for the purpose of sending far away”.

My theory of sin, as offered on previous occasions, defines it as a relationship problem.
Humanity has taken itself out of alignment with God’s will, a misalignment which undermines our relation with the God who made us.
If that’s a fair description, then it’s obviously not possible for sin to be literally “carried away”.
The scapegoat is a dramatized metaphor, a visual aid, offering the image of sin as a “burden”.

From a very early stage, the church picked up this metaphor and applied it to Jesus;
“The two goats which were ordered to be offered during the fast, of which one was sent away as the scapegoat and the other sacrificed, were similarly declarative of the two appearances of Christ; the first, in which the elders of the people and the priests, having laid hands on him and put him to death, sent him away as the scapegoat…” (Justin Martyr, “Dialogue with Trypho”, ch.xl).
The Epistle of Barnabas also uses the scapegoat as one of the “types” of Christ.
One of the best-known examples of the image is the famous painting by Holman Hunt.
Such an obvious application, it seems, and yet we don’t find it explicitly offered in the New Testament.
Perhaps the parable of the sheep and the goats, in which the goats were excluded from the kingdom (Matthew ch25), made the first Christians reluctant to identify Jesus with the “wrong” animal.

In John’s case, at least, the explanation seems to be that the image got absorbed into the more dominant theme of “the lamb”, the standard offering at the morning and evening sacrifices.
So Jesus does “take away sin”, but he does it as “the Lamb of God”.
The traditional chant, the “Agnus Dei”, takes up the affirmation made by John, but gets the wording wrong; “O Lamb of God, that takest away the SINS of the world”.
John is using the collective word, referring to the whole complex of sin-and-death which arose out of the events in Eden.
“It declares the victory of Christ over sin regarded in its unity, as the common corruption of mankind, which is personally realised in the “sins” of separate men” (Westcott’s commentary).

It’s also possible that the scapegoat ritual has influenced Paul’s discussion of “the curse of the law” (Galatians ch3 vv10-13).
He reminds the Galatians that Deuteronomy declares a curse on those who do not live by all the commands of the law.
Since nobody succeeds in keeping all the commands of the law, this curse must in practice fall upon everyone who tries.
But Christ himself suffered the penalty of one cursed by the law, when he “hung upon a tree”.
Therefore, says Paul, “Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us”.
The unstated connecting link between the two halves of that statement has to be that the curse was removed from us in some way at the same time that it was taken up by Christ.
In other words, it was transferred and “taken away”.

If sin is not a literal burden, then the scapegoat image as applied to Jesus remains a metaphor.
But there is (in Christian teaching) a vital difference between the two cases.
The scapegoat ritual of the Old Testament was a way of describing something which needed to be done.
The image of Christ as the Lamb of God, who takes away sin, is a way of describing something which HAS been done.
“It is accomplished”.
The message is that the problem of sin has been dealt with, to the same degree that it would have been dealt with if the sin had been physically removed.




posted on Sep, 7 2018 @ 05:02 PM
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N.T.S. stands for New Testament Salvation.
This thread is one of a series, and I wanted to mark the fact without making the title too cumbersome.
The series is a sequel to, and the consummation of, the older series on Old Testament remedies for sin.
In that series, sin is defined as a relationship problem; the human will is out of alignment with the will of God.



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 04:29 AM
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Great read.

I'm thinking that the sin was Adam & Eve's sin that cursed us all to die & remain in the ground till Judgement Day. And The Christ was The Son Of God, & not the son of Adam, & was therefore free of that sin & did not have to die like everyone else. And if people believed in Him & obeyed His Commandments then they were freed from the sin of Adam & Eve as well. But He had to demonstrate that He did not actually die. He had to prove He lived forever & went to Heaven. So He came back & showed Himself to His followers. That was proof that He was indeed free from the curse of Adam & Eve, & therefore we also could be freed from that curse if we love Jesus & follow Him unto death. I don't think Jesus gave His life to pay for all the other sins that everyone commits 24/7. They will all have to face judgement for those i believe



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 04:40 AM
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originally posted by: SourcePage
I'm thinking that the sin was Adam & Eve's sin that cursed us all

Yes, separating themselves from God's will was the sin of Adam and Eve. They chose to decide for themselves the boundary line between "good and evil".

was therefore free of that sin & did not have to die like everyone else.

Yes, Jesus lived in obedience to the will of God, which is what is meant by being "without sin". That will be the topic of a later thread.

And if people believed in Him & obeyed His Commandments then they were freed from the sin of Adam & Eve as well. But He had to demonstrate that He did not actually die. He had to prove He lived forever & went to Heaven. So He came back & showed Himself to His followers. That was proof that He was indeed free from the curse of Adam & Eve, & therefore we also could be freed from that curse if we love Jesus & follow Him unto death. I don't think Jesus gave His life to pay for all the other sins that everyone commits 24/7. They will all have to face judgement for those i believe

All this comes up later in the series. It's a big topic.


edit on 8-9-2018 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 05:10 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Cool....Jesus ....when we see Him coming..... I'll tell all who wonder.....

That is the one who now has the keys to death and Hades..

Get ready.....this rehearsal day coming up......may not be a rehearsal.......Sept. 11



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 05:12 AM
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a reply to: GBP/JPY
I always say that it's a mistake to try to calculate dates. We can discuss this further on the 12th.



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 09:01 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Great read, thanks.

Complex topic; Christ, the Paschal Lamb. Sin and reconciliation. And a new covenant sealed in His blood. But it is a covenant that requires loyalty, honor and devotion to the truth. It must be embraced daily to achieve salvation.



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 09:05 AM
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a reply to: TonyS
It is indeed. So complex that I've postponed "Paschal Lamb" and the new covenant until next week.
Yes, there is a follow-up to believing ("if we live by the Spirit, we must walk by the Spirit"), so I'm going to get on to that as well.



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 09:31 AM
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a reply to: SourcePage

I think we will be forgiven and redeemed those sins. I don't think we will be condemned. I also don't think we will be sent to Hell for them or anything like that.

I think during our Judgment, we will have to see them and see exactly what happened as a result, and that will be very, very hard for us if we really are the people we think we are.



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 10:05 AM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: GBP/JPY
I always say that it's a mistake to try to calculate dates. We can discuss this further on the 12th.
Paul told us to comfort one another when we see the season and the time

He said we would know the time.....after a falling away happened first

Here we are swimming in apostasy!
edit on 8-9-2018 by GBP/JPY because: IN THE FINE TEXAS TRADITION



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 10:11 AM
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a reply to: GBP/JPY

With the next in line waitng in the cue.....rehearsal day........soon.....
.
The rapture must happen on a YomTtarurah......imo

At some point, since the rapture is Paul's number two mystery from the beginning of time he said......is plainly in the Scripture....it won't be a rehearsal....not unlike the first rehearsal days......which God said are His, but we will call them feast days but He will call them rehearsal days....
edit on 8-9-2018 by GBP/JPY because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-9-2018 by GBP/JPY because: IN THE FINE TEXAS TRADITION



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 10:22 AM
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a reply to: GBP/JPY

Number one mystery....the Jewish and Israel were not the only people's that will be seeing salvation...... A Paul was the first to state this wonder for the heathen.......not gentiles, these are the Greek, heathen.
edit on 8-9-2018 by GBP/JPY because: IN THE FINE TEXAS TRADITION



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 12:58 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

I look forward to your next installment. Your work is far more timely, relevant to the true reality that's really going on than the usual half-baked political crap. And no, I am not beng facetious. (just wish I could spell better, sorry).



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 01:04 PM
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a reply to: TonyS
You are very kind.
This particular series may be the reason I was brought to ATS.



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 01:05 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

This is interesting!
www.dailystar.co.uk...



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 01:25 PM
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a reply to: TonyS
It's interesting in that it shows how addiction to end-times speculation can send the mind off into strange tangents.

The red heifer comes in Numbers ch19, which is a law rather than a prophecy. It is supposed to be for the purpose of producing an ash to be used in ritual cleansing, and the existence of the law takes it for granted that qualifying heifers are going to be available on a regular basis. Perhaps the definition of "red" was never meant to be as literally stringent as the modern rabbis would make it.

Any connection with the end-times is human tradiiton rather than scripture. If it were really possible to bring the coming of the Messiah by deliberate breeding of a suitable heifer, which seems to be the claim, then that would put men in control of the event instead of God.
Anyway, Christians don't need a red heifer, because we've already got a better way of dealing with sin.




edit on 8-9-2018 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

I think if such a thing occurs, then it's far more likely that certain elements in Israel are going to be deceived by one who comes claiming to be messiah who actually isn't and their human-centered production of the perfect red heifer will be central to this rather than anything God does actively.

Either way, it all serves its purpose in the end.
edit on 8-9-2018 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 02:14 PM
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when I was a child God came & took me to witness Hell. I had to watch people being brought in & judged & then thrown off the cliff into the lake of fire. Then I had to watch them burn. God has taken me back there a number of times & when I talk back to God He picks me up & throws me into the lake of fire as well. It is a very real place. You are all going to be taken there I believe. I don't think you are going to Heaven until you have been judged worthy. God takes me to see the saints in heaven & Angels & all that. But Hell is just as real & it waits for you all without any doubt. So Repent. Just Like John The Baptist, (A cousin of Jesus. Also born to a woman who was unable to get pregnant), told people to do. Repent your vile & evil hearts & minds. Cease your abominable thoughts & wicked ways. Just do it

edit on 8-9-2018 by SourcePage because: Repent your evil ways & never sin again. Ye vile maggots. lol



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 02:37 PM
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a reply to: SourcePage

Upon reflection, my comment above looks like it leans toward universal salvation.

That's not true, I was replying to the people in the thread so far whom I know to be all professing Christians, and Christians believe Christ died to redeem us. If we believe in Him and what He did ... the central reasoning in this series of Disraeli's threads, then I don't believe we will see Hell, but we will face Judgment. All do that.



posted on Sep, 8 2018 @ 02:45 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: SourcePage
I'm thinking that the sin was Adam & Eve's sin that cursed us all

Yes, separating themselves from God's will was the sin of Adam and Eve. They chose to decide for themselves the boundary line between "good and evil".

was therefore free of that sin & did not have to die like everyone else.

Yes, Jesus lived in obedience to the will of God, which is what is meant by being "without sin". That will be the topic of a later thread.

And if people believed in Him & obeyed His Commandments then they were freed from the sin of Adam & Eve as well. But He had to demonstrate that He did not actually die. He had to prove He lived forever & went to Heaven. So He came back & showed Himself to His followers. That was proof that He was indeed free from the curse of Adam & Eve, & therefore we also could be freed from that curse if we love Jesus & follow Him unto death. I don't think Jesus gave His life to pay for all the other sins that everyone commits 24/7. They will all have to face judgement for those i believe

All this comes up later in the series. It's a big topic.



I could not help but notice you cut out the part where I pointed out that Jesus was free from sin & the curse simply because He was not The Son of Adam as we are. He was The Son of God & so could never be subject to the curse that everyone else was cursed by. We can only get free of that curse if we accept God as our Father & follow Christ unto eternity



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