Dennis Rodman on CNN regarding NK summit that could've happened 5 years ago

Jesus the media is disgusting. FfS the host just keeps trying to push negativity.... why can't they just embrace the moment and give good grace to this historic event .

The media will kill peace in the world .

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: face23785

I always thought Rodman was a jackass for going to North Korea and hanging out with a dirtbag like Kim.

Pretty much.

Kim wanted to meet President Obama and "Obama didn't even give me the time of day."

And your opinion of that changed because Obama had the same opinion that you did? That's basically what you're saying. But hey, don't worry. You're in good company.

When Obama said he'd be willing to meet with foreign adversaries, he was excoriated by the right-wing. Trump puts out on the first date and the same people can't gush hard enough.

Dennis Rodman is an effing moron. "He's a good friend to me." Well, I hope for Rodman's sake he's a better friend than a sibling. Amirite?

Never mind the forced labor camps and all that #. He's really a good dude. Jesus.

Also, regarding the whining about Fox:


The hypocrisy is everywhere.

a reply to: seagull

Yeah, and the mineral companies might like to get their paws into Kims reserves, especially if they can skirt environmental policies.

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: rickymouse
It actually appeared that kim was sort of smiling in the summit pictures. I think he may actually be tired of the war game. I know that Kim is a loose cannon, but maybe...just maybe...he does not want to spend the rest of his life being so negative.

We can certainly give him a ton of incentives to cooperate with us. If he becomes our ally, opens up the economy, he can enjoy so many things he doesn't have access to now. He can go down in history as the leader who brought North Korea into the 21st century and led his people to prosperity finally. They've been China's ally for decades and they're a #hole. Bringing him to the US could be another step to show him what he's missing out on.

The biggest obstacle right now I think is keeping China or Russia from getting in his ear and derailing this.

I don't think China or Russia is going to interfere with this unless we start putting bases in North Korea or try to really turn them against either of those two countries. If we just keep it reasonable, things will work out fine, but remember, we have a lot of big corporations that will try to take over NK and drive it into slavery. Kim needs to learn to be cautious with the big corporations that want a piece of his pie.

We do not need to throw money at Kim, all we need to do is lower sanctions so their people can switch their military factories into factories making peaceful products. We can help them to support themselves, just start to buy some things from them.

[sarcasm] Slavery like the prosperous capitalist society they have in South Korea? Yeah, partnering with America and letting those evil corporations take over really #ed up life there, they have it terrible.[/sarcasm]

Sometimes you guys get out of hand with the anti-corporate stuff. Companies piss me off sometimes too, but Jesus. Capitalism has its flaws but it's miles ahead of the alternatives.

There are a lot of good corporations, but there are some big bad ones that love new blood. I am not against corporations or businesses, but people need to know some of them are very bad, the Pharmaceutical companies might make agreements with Kim to put factories there that cause lots of damage to their ecosystem and environment since they might be able to skirt regulations.

Fair enough. I doubt they have the strongest environmental protections right now though. It's still going to be a net gain for Kim and his citizens no matter how you slice it.

This would be funny if it wasn't so sad. Obama's admin negotiates a comprehensive deal with Iran and half the Right is immediately against it, including Trump. Now it's trashed with no replacement and that's applauded by his supporters.

Here's the really bizarre part.

The same people who wanted that deal killed are falling all over themselves over getting a non-binding commitment to negotiate from NK that doesn't even look as good as the ones Clinton and Bush got from Kim Jong Il.

The only difference is Trump gave Kim Jong Un a nice photo OP and a seat at the big boy table to get it. And don't get me wrong, I hope we pull something off. Just like I hope we're able to get a negotiate a new deal with Iran. But the commentary from the Right is some mixture of "I hate Obama so anything Trump does is GREAT!" and a complete lack of knowledge of recent history.

There's an idiot "Republcian strategist" on TV right now saying that "this has never been done before!" And that's somebody who is paid for their terrible takes. Reality:

Statement by President Bush on Six Party Talks

The Parties agreed that the above-mentioned initial actions will be implemented within next 60 days and that they will take coordinated steps toward this goal.

III. The Parties agreed on the establishment of the following Working Groups (WG) in order to carry out the initial actions and for the purpose of full implementation of the Joint Statement:

Denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula
Normalization of DPRK-US relations
Normalization of DPRK-Japan relations
Economy and Energy Cooperation
Northeast Asia Peace and Security Mechanism

And before that:


U.S.-D.P.R.K. Joint Communique

Recognizing the changed circumstances on the Korean Peninsula created by the historic inter-Korean summit, the United States and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea have decided to take steps to fundamentally improve their bilateral relations in the interests of enhancing peace and security in the Asia-Pacific region. In this regard, the two sides agreed there are a variety of available means, including Four Party talks, to reduce tension on the Korean Peninsula and formally end the Korean War by replacing the 1953 Armistice Agreement with permanent peace arrangements.

Building on the principles laid out in the June 11, 1993 U.S.-D.P.R.K. Joint Statement and reaffirmed in the October 21, 1994 Agreed Framework, the two sides agreed to work to remove mistrust, build mutual confidence, and maintain an atmosphere in which they can deal constructively with issues of central concern. In this regard, the two sides reaffirmed that their relations should be based on the principles of respect for each other's sovereignty and non-interference in each other's internal affairs, and noted the value of regular diplomatic contacts, bilaterally and in broader fora.

In obama's defense, I'm guessing he didn't act on the info not because he didn't want peace, but because he knew he didn't have a strong enough presence or the negotiating power to handle such a situation.

Nothing wrong with knowing ones limits.

originally posted by: notsure1
And Obama could have gotten Otto out but did not even care or try.. Racist Trump though got the 3 korean Americans released.

" ...this could have been my son."
-Obama

originally posted by: howtonhawky
a reply to: theantediluvian

I do wonder how much of all the labor camps and killings are kim's personal actions vs nk's traditional way of handling things.

Perhaps this is his way of changing things in his country without being removed himself for taking actions against tptb in nk?

How would you do it if in his shoes?

Really the labor camps and killings sounds like the "Deep States" MO and I really get the feeling that Kim and the rest of NK are hostages that have been freed.

a reply to: theantediluvian

When this agreement was made last time, how come we didn't see all the pictures of both SK NK leaders hugging and shaking hands??

originally posted by: theantediluvian
This would be funny if it wasn't so sad. Obama's admin negotiates a comprehensive deal with Iran and half the Right is immediately against it, including Trump. Now it's trashed with no replacement and that's applauded by his supporters.

The fact that you don't see the difference between this and the Iran deal is stunning. This isn't final, it's just a proposal. There is no comparison right now. The Iran deal, as finalized, is a joke. This will be a treaty, if it gets done. I'm all for not counting your chickens before they hatch, I will agree some Republicans are jumping the gun. But comparing this to Iran is laughable. Obama et al got railroaded on that deal, and they went in with all the leverage. It was pathetic.

a reply to: Dem0nc1eaner

You mean like this?



That's Clinton's Secretary of State, Madeleine Albright, meeting with Kim Jong Il.

This is from the (many rounds) of Party of Six negotiations under Bush:



And then under Obama, Bill Clinton met with Kim Jong Il:



The difference was that the sitting Presidents never gave up a one-on-one meeting up front.

originally posted by: Butterfinger

originally posted by: notsure1
And Obama could have gotten Otto out but did not even care or try.. Racist Trump though got the 3 korean Americans released.

" ...this could have been my son."
-Obama

that's crazy talk

at least we got to the bottom of what was done to warmbeer via the federally mandate that states every person has to get an autopsy when they die.

oh never mind...i see that since we accused nk of torture of warmbeer we waived the autopsy in order to...?

a reply to: face23785

The fact that you don't see the difference between this and the Iran deal is stunning. This isn't final, it's just a proposal.

Clearly I see the difference. The Iran deal was a fully formed deal with a framework and deliverables. Whether or not you think the Iran deal was the best deal that could have been had, it was an actual deal. Quick question: is what we have with Iran right now (which is nothing except word that they're spinning up the centrifuges again) better or worse than what we had six months ago?

As of right now, this isn't even a proposal, it's a very vague commitment to take more steps in the future.

My point is how unreasonable it is that Trump supporting Republicans are taking a victory lap over it which you even conceded.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: rickymouse
It actually appeared that kim was sort of smiling in the summit pictures. I think he may actually be tired of the war game. I know that Kim is a loose cannon, but maybe...just maybe...he does not want to spend the rest of his life being so negative.

We can certainly give him a ton of incentives to cooperate with us. If he becomes our ally, opens up the economy, he can enjoy so many things he doesn't have access to now. He can go down in history as the leader who brought North Korea into the 21st century and led his people to prosperity finally. They've been China's ally for decades and they're a #hole. Bringing him to the US could be another step to show him what he's missing out on.

The biggest obstacle right now I think is keeping China or Russia from getting in his ear and derailing this.

I don't think China or Russia is going to interfere with this unless we start putting bases in North Korea or try to really turn them against either of those two countries. If we just keep it reasonable, things will work out fine, but remember, we have a lot of big corporations that will try to take over NK and drive it into slavery. Kim needs to learn to be cautious with the big corporations that want a piece of his pie.

We do not need to throw money at Kim, all we need to do is lower sanctions so their people can switch their military factories into factories making peaceful products. We can help them to support themselves, just start to buy some things from them.

[sarcasm] Slavery like the prosperous capitalist society they have in South Korea? Yeah, partnering with America and letting those evil corporations take over really #ed up life there, they have it terrible.[/sarcasm]

Sometimes you guys get out of hand with the anti-corporate stuff. Companies piss me off sometimes too, but Jesus. Capitalism has its flaws but it's miles ahead of the alternatives.

There are a lot of good corporations, but there are some big bad ones that love new blood. I am not against corporations or businesses, but people need to know some of them are very bad, the Pharmaceutical companies might make agreements with Kim to put factories there that cause lots of damage to their ecosystem and environment since they might be able to skirt regulations.

Fair enough. I doubt they have the strongest environmental protections right now though. It's still going to be a net gain for Kim and his citizens no matter how you slice it.

Look at what is happening to the health of the people in China, their people are wearing breathing masks to commute to work.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: face23785

The fact that you don't see the difference between this and the Iran deal is stunning. This isn't final, it's just a proposal.

Clearly I see the difference. The Iran deal was a fully formed deal with a framework and deliverables. Whether or not you think the Iran deal was the best deal that could have been had, it was an actual deal. Quick question: is what we have with Iran right now (which is nothing except word that they're spinning up the centrifuges again) better or worse than what we had six months ago?

As of right now, this isn't even a proposal, it's a very vague commitment to take more steps in the future.

It was essentially a pinky swear because it was so weak he couldn't get it through Congress. That's why we have such a thing as treaties, because they are much firmer and harder to get out of. Iran has progressively gotten worse since the deal. They've used the money we released to them to further fund terror. They've gotten more brazen and more involved all over the region. And they've been cheating on the deal, even while Obama was still president, and he didn't "snap back sanctions". We can only inspect where they say we can inspect. They get 24 days notice before we get there. They didn't have to give up all their nuclear material.

It was weak. It didn't do anything. All it did was kick the can down the road and we gave up all our leverage up front, just like we did with North Korea for decades and wound up here. It was very similar to the deal we did with NK in the 90s, and we all know where that led. We had all the leverage, but we let them dictate terms to us! They told us missiles were off the table, support for terror was off the table, their actions in the region were off the table. We should've told them okay, enjoy your sanctions and oh here's twice as many, call us in 6 months when you're ready to talk.

I know you guys don't like to hear it because you like to think Obama was strong, but he wasn't. He got taken for a ride, bad. So far, that's not happening here. We'll see what happens. This is a step in the right direction.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: face23785

The fact that you don't see the difference between this and the Iran deal is stunning. This isn't final, it's just a proposal.

My point is how unreasonable it is that Trump supporting Republicans are taking a victory lap over it which you even conceded.

I certainly agree with that part.

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: rickymouse
It actually appeared that kim was sort of smiling in the summit pictures. I think he may actually be tired of the war game. I know that Kim is a loose cannon, but maybe...just maybe...he does not want to spend the rest of his life being so negative.

We can certainly give him a ton of incentives to cooperate with us. If he becomes our ally, opens up the economy, he can enjoy so many things he doesn't have access to now. He can go down in history as the leader who brought North Korea into the 21st century and led his people to prosperity finally. They've been China's ally for decades and they're a #hole. Bringing him to the US could be another step to show him what he's missing out on.

The biggest obstacle right now I think is keeping China or Russia from getting in his ear and derailing this.

I don't think China or Russia is going to interfere with this unless we start putting bases in North Korea or try to really turn them against either of those two countries. If we just keep it reasonable, things will work out fine, but remember, we have a lot of big corporations that will try to take over NK and drive it into slavery. Kim needs to learn to be cautious with the big corporations that want a piece of his pie.

We do not need to throw money at Kim, all we need to do is lower sanctions so their people can switch their military factories into factories making peaceful products. We can help them to support themselves, just start to buy some things from them.

[sarcasm] Slavery like the prosperous capitalist society they have in South Korea? Yeah, partnering with America and letting those evil corporations take over really #ed up life there, they have it terrible.[/sarcasm]

Sometimes you guys get out of hand with the anti-corporate stuff. Companies piss me off sometimes too, but Jesus. Capitalism has its flaws but it's miles ahead of the alternatives.

There are a lot of good corporations, but there are some big bad ones that love new blood. I am not against corporations or businesses, but people need to know some of them are very bad, the Pharmaceutical companies might make agreements with Kim to put factories there that cause lots of damage to their ecosystem and environment since they might be able to skirt regulations.

Fair enough. I doubt they have the strongest environmental protections right now though. It's still going to be a net gain for Kim and his citizens no matter how you slice it.

Look at what is happening to the health of the people in China, their people are wearing breathing masks to commute to work.

Right. China. That's not happening in South Korea or the US, where capitalism reigns supreme.

a reply to: theantediluvian

There is absolutely a chance I am wrong on this, but I don't think you answered my question.

To clarify, when have we ever before seen the leaders of both South and North Korea, smiling and hugging it out.

When has a Kim last set foot in the South??

Those photos show some very stern faces, nothing like the look of genuine happiness and relief seen from every side of the recent talks.

Frankly, even if this has all happened before, does that make it any less right to try it again. You seem to almost want it to fail.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: rickymouse
It actually appeared that kim was sort of smiling in the summit pictures. I think he may actually be tired of the war game. I know that Kim is a loose cannon, but maybe...just maybe...he does not want to spend the rest of his life being so negative.

We can certainly give him a ton of incentives to cooperate with us. If he becomes our ally, opens up the economy, he can enjoy so many things he doesn't have access to now. He can go down in history as the leader who brought North Korea into the 21st century and led his people to prosperity finally. They've been China's ally for decades and they're a #hole. Bringing him to the US could be another step to show him what he's missing out on.

The biggest obstacle right now I think is keeping China or Russia from getting in his ear and derailing this.

I don't think China or Russia is going to interfere with this unless we start putting bases in North Korea or try to really turn them against either of those two countries. If we just keep it reasonable, things will work out fine, but remember, we have a lot of big corporations that will try to take over NK and drive it into slavery. Kim needs to learn to be cautious with the big corporations that want a piece of his pie.

We do not need to throw money at Kim, all we need to do is lower sanctions so their people can switch their military factories into factories making peaceful products. We can help them to support themselves, just start to buy some things from them.

[sarcasm] Slavery like the prosperous capitalist society they have in South Korea? Yeah, partnering with America and letting those evil corporations take over really #ed up life there, they have it terrible.[/sarcasm]

Sometimes you guys get out of hand with the anti-corporate stuff. Companies piss me off sometimes too, but Jesus. Capitalism has its flaws but it's miles ahead of the alternatives.

There are a lot of good corporations, but there are some big bad ones that love new blood. I am not against corporations or businesses, but people need to know some of them are very bad, the Pharmaceutical companies might make agreements with Kim to put factories there that cause lots of damage to their ecosystem and environment since they might be able to skirt regulations.

Fair enough. I doubt they have the strongest environmental protections right now though. It's still going to be a net gain for Kim and his citizens no matter how you slice it.

Look at what is happening to the health of the people in China, their people are wearing breathing masks to commute to work.

Right. China. That's not happening in South Korea or the US, where capitalism reigns supreme.

But it may happen in NK.

I wonder how negatively it is going to effect South Korea when the US quits helping them with funding for the conflict between the north and South? I think South Korea may have a strong enough economy to make it with less money from us and Europe.

originally posted by: UnBreakable
Yep, could’ve happened five years ago if our previous president had any balls. Instead he was too busy with his US aplology world tour.

What about Trump's apology tour, trashing our leaders, our agencies and our policies from foreign soil?

a reply to: rickymouse

That's up to the Koreans to deal with, isn't it?

The opportunity is there, what they do with it is up to them. The Koreans say "Only this much, and this way, or you don't get to play in our dirt." or words to that effect.