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Why progressivism has the opposite affect you think it does

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posted on May, 11 2018 @ 06:04 PM
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Ok, I've been listening to 2 progressive voices to try and understand where they are coming from better on the left, the Bernie Bro left. Let's start by finding common ground.

Wealth inequality is totally out of control. I couldn't agree more.

It's harder than ever in the US to level up your business or start a small business. Yeah I get it you are going to tell me to get my hands dirty and cut grass but let me just state that I am already a carpenter and due to government regulation and corruption leveling up a small construction business is very hard to do without angel investors and massive credit lines.

College cost way to much.

I am pro cleaning up the environment but not because of global warming but because I generally care about my home.

Ok. So these are some issues we can agree upon at least slightly.

Now here is the 2 people I mainly go to to understand the progressive left's point of view.



Jimmy Dore, I really like Jimmy, his comedy is funny and I agree with a lot of what he has to say. I think he has honest intentions.



Secular Talk, I like it sometimes he's funny and I like the guys style and delivery. I also think Kyle has honest intentions, not a paid shill. I get where he's coming from.

Now, let's get into where I disagree.

I am going to use the Secular Talk video above's talking point as an example of what I disagree with.

Now here is the situation:

Small construction company me the owner, I profit 50,000 a year. I have 3 employees, each makes 15 an hour netting around 30k a year. I offer all of them medical coverage but they have to pay. They get days off when they need it for vacation and if their sick, they can be late here or there and it's not a big deal.

Now, I take a lot of risk with this company, sometimes one of my employees makes a mistake and I lose money on a job, they still get their 15 an hour and take no hits but I don't get paid on that job. That's ok though because on the next 3 jobs they kill it and I recoup my losses. They still get paid.

Now the government comes along and here I am running my small carpentry business paying my taxes and barely being able to take care of my employees and my family and big daddy government passes a law that mandates that I give each of these employees 4 weeks paid vacation.

Now that doesn't seem like much but it's a 7,200 loss not on production but out of pocket cost to pay for their vacations. Not only am I losing an employee for 4 weeks of the year and paying their salary I am also losing production while their gone meaning I'm taking in less money AND paying out more.

So, how do I compensate?

Well. The first thing I'm going to do is drop their salary to minimum wage which is 10.50 an hour in the trades. If that's not enough option 2 is to cut 1 employee and demand longer working hours from the ones that are left. Option 3, I make less money. Option 4 I go out of business and get a job working for a larger construction company who then takes over the market and expands making larger profits while I make less because they have less competition, but at least I'll have 4 weeks paid vacation right?

Hopefully those few of you left on the left can understand why this policy that you think helps actually works directly for the large corporations you claim to hate.

Don't be a corporate shill, progressivism is bad.
edit on 11-5-2018 by toysforadults because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-5-2018 by toysforadults because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 11 2018 @ 06:20 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

I don't think it was the Progressives, but Donald Trump, our President who said he was going to help you out. It's the Republicans that run the show. How's that going? Sounds like your life is a little rough. Wasn't the President suppose to help out small business. I guess he'll get around to that after he gives his rich friends, Dems and Republicans, a couple more huge take breaks. I suggest you take all that money you got through Trumps tax cuts, and use that to pay those sick days. Your enemy isn't Progressives.



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 06:28 PM
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Usually small businesses like yours with only 3 employees are exempt from such onerous government rules and regulations.

However, one way to counter the business income loss would be to increase the hourly rate you charge your customers. Or increase the cost of your estimates and bids.

If the vacation requirement is universal, in that it applies to all contractors, then every contractor with employees would similarly have to increase their prices.

Of course that increased cost will then be passed on to the consumer.

-dex



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 06:36 PM
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a reply to: DexterRiley




However, one way to counter the business income loss would be to increase the hourly rate you charge your customers. Or increase the cost of your estimates and bids.


That's not how it works in residential construction. I can't just raise prices and pass the cost on to the consumer because the consumer can't/ won't pay it.

In residential construction you can only charge what the market demands.



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 06:57 PM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: DexterRiley




However, one way to counter the business income loss would be to increase the hourly rate you charge your customers. Or increase the cost of your estimates and bids.


That's not how it works in residential construction. I can't just raise prices and pass the cost on to the consumer because the consumer can't/ won't pay it.

In residential construction you can only charge what the market demands.


That's an interesting point.

Theoretically all contractors would have to increase their prices to accommodate the new paid vacation requirement. So, competitiveness shouldn't be affected.

However, the market for residential construction itself could be adversely affected because of the increased cost of labor. The consumer may no longer be able to afford your services.

I believe there is some deep dark economic vodoo that says that these increased costs should percolate through the economy and eventually the residential construction market will stabilize. Then the consumer will move forward with their plans.

-dex



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 07:02 PM
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a reply to: DexterRiley




Theoretically all contractors would have to increase their prices to accommodate the new paid vacation requirement. So, competitiveness shouldn't be affected.


went through this for several years after 2007, the market only really started taking off again in 2016 and this year it's better than it's been in a long time.

the small business still goes out of business


let me clarify further, small contractors either go to commercial or quit, most of them quit and now are in different careers, the rest went to commercial which is where the majority of gains were at all year last year, this is the first year we've seen a robust increase in residential demand
edit on 11-5-2018 by toysforadults because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 07:24 PM
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originally posted by: MiddleInsite
a reply to: toysforadults

I don't think it was the Progressives, but Donald Trump, our President who said he was going to help you out. It's the Republicans that run the show. How's that going? Sounds like your life is a little rough. Wasn't the President suppose to help out small business. I guess he'll get around to that after he gives his rich friends, Dems and Republicans, a couple more huge take breaks. I suggest you take all that money you got through Trumps tax cuts, and use that to pay those sick days. Your enemy isn't Progressives.


compare the economy and the state of small businesses from 8 years under Obama to 2 years under Trump and tell me there isn't a glaring continuity difference


things are on a high right now... give credit where credit is due.



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 07:26 PM
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They claim to be anti-corporate, yet they create so many barriers to entry and burdensome regulations they all but ensure that only the well-capitalized (the people who are already rich) will ever have a chance of succeeding.

They claim to be for the little guy but do everything they can to ensure wealth remains consolidated in the hands of the elite few.
edit on 5/11/18 by NthOther because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 07:33 PM
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a reply to: odzeandennz

oh you can't even compare, in 2015 I was going from job to job and taking carpentry jobs here and there and now we are booked for 3 months solid, haven't seen anything like it since before the crash



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 07:33 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

Is the mandatory paid vacation thing something unique to your state? I'm confused since you don't have enough employees for federal regs to apply in most cases. Which state?



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 07:33 PM
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originally posted by: NthOther
They claim to be anti-corporate, yet they create so many barriers to entry they all but ensure that only the well-capitalized (the people who are already rich) will ever have a chance of succeeding.

They claim to be for the little guy but do everything they can to ensure wealth remains consolidated in the hands of the few.


totally agree



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 07:34 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: toysforadults

Is the mandatory paid vacation thing something unique to your state? I'm confused since you don't have enough employees for federal regs to apply in most cases. Which state?


this is more of an example of a larger issue and how it may impact the market and less of me talking about my actual business because we can employee up to 20 people



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 07:37 PM
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I'm also a small business owner, Retail, Wholesale and manufacturing, I don't trust Trumps voodoo trickle down economic model at all. It's never worked before, the working man always gets screwed, disposable income evaporates and that's what my store depends on.

People are scared and I don't blame them.

www.rawstory.com...

but I have a plan....

I've become a LLC vendor/contractor with the Government, both state and feds. I know who's got the money. Now it's up to me to sell my service.

Blessed to have some working capital and options.

But blame it on the progressives.
edit on 11-5-2018 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-5-2018 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 07:40 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

I can't answer for progressives. I have no clue what the average one thinks on the construction business. My guess from the comments so far is some seem pretty detached from business economics.

My Father ran a small business back in the day. Same issues with government interference. He was a good guy who looked out for his employees and cared about things like fairness and the environment too. Not your typical evil profiteer many make businessmen out to be.

Regardless, the number of government agencies doing rectal exams on every aspect of daily activities was amazing. In the end, most did little if anything to achieve the ends they sought. Especially when large corporations could afford to challenge those agencies in order to avoid compliance.

4 weeks of paid vacations sounds great. I spent my career in the military where we had such a thing. The vast majority of folks never use it all. Too much going on to keep dropping out of daily activities. I imagine with construction (at least by me) it's seasonal. Gotta pound nails while the sun shines. Mandated vacation sounds like one more thing to track and manage for a small business owner they never asked for.



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 07:52 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

OK thanks. I misunderstood.

$15 and hour here in Alaska is about right for a laborer with no skills. Almost impossible to live on, but it's excessively expensive here unlike much of the country where you can live far better on far less.

I actually have a hard time imagining a real Progressive being even remotely pro business to be honest. I think most who say they are, are not really on the same page as the Progressive leaders.

I think its a matter of finding a balance between ideologies. I started out as a flaming Liberal Progressive in my youth and then around 30 and in particular after I started a business, I realized I was poking myself in the eye for no reason. I then went to far the other way. I settled somewhere in the middle and if truth be told I think most people over 30 are fairly moderate.

I think it's about too much of something. A hard Right country I'd find just as troubling as a far Left country.


edit on 5/11/2018 by Blaine91555 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 08:08 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults
Maybe you should look into just having yourself as the only official employee. Your guys can work each day on a contract basis. It will take some juggling but the only person who now needs a four week paid vacation is you.
Go to Bali.





edit on 11-5-2018 by EmmanuelGoldstein because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 08:17 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

If this hypothetical company screws up 1 our of 4 jobs they deserve to go out of business.

Also if you took a 7,200 dollar hit you are still making 42,800 and paying your employees 30,000

It means you make 30% more than one of your workers, what is wrong wit that?

If you didn’t mess up 25% of the work you would be getting more money

So you have two major problems greed and inefficiency

edit on 11-5-2018 by fatkid because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 08:47 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12
I'm also a small business owner, Retail, Wholesale and manufacturing, I don't trust Trumps voodoo trickle down economic model at all. It's never worked before, the working man always gets screwed, disposable income evaporates and that's what my store depends on.

People are scared and I don't blame them.

www.rawstory.com...

but I have a plan....

I've become a LLC vendor/contractor with the Government, both state and feds. I know who's got the money. Now it's up to me to sell my service.

Blessed to have some working capital and options.

But blame it on the progressives.


Guess you missed what Reagan did after Carter.

Of course you did, since Clinton took that booming economy and took credit for it, to the point he cooked the books and claimed he balanced the economy and had a surplus.... LOL.

According to the Bureau of Economic Income, disposable income in America is at it's highest level ever. Estimates with GDP put it as continuing to grow. Voodoo economics indeed.

Progressives are the ones that currently want that level lower. You know, because taxing the middle class more takes away more of their disposable income. Something a liberal progressive just can't figure out.

And by the way, if you are in construction in America you may want to factor in illegal immigrant labor. If you are not constantly being undercut by a rival company that pays half of its work force under the table and does not have to pay taxes and comp on them, you will have a much better shot at making money.

Blame the Progressive open border policy for that.




posted on May, 11 2018 @ 09:05 PM
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a reply to: olaru12

Everything is on credit and I mean everything

We hardly ever work on homes of younger people

Trump isnt addressing the actual problems like campaign finance



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 09:09 PM
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a reply to: Blaine91555

15 an hour is basically nothing if you are paying rent and for a car you are totally broke

I think progresssives wrongly assume that everything is big business and they don't fundamentally understand that our economy has thrived on small business which their policies kill

Their axiom is that there are no small bisinesses



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