F.B.I. Raids Office of Trump’s Longtime Lawyer Michael Cohen

originally posted by: Phage
Correction. They know when I entered the EU and when I arrived back in the US. But I doubt there are any written records of it. I don't recall agents at either point doing anything other than looking at my passport and asking if I had anything to "delcare." There were a lot of people in front of and behind me in line.

Unless you grew wings or drove a car to Europe yes they know when you arrived and when you left. I already pointed that out to you several posts earlier.

originally posted by: Phage Please elucidate.

I already have, several times now. Go back and read what I posted or see the same answer below.

originally posted by: PhageIt seems this one involved three specific locations.

Yes and it also included the paperwork they were looking for. As I have stated several times now they seized paperwork that was not listed on the warrant.

The governments response on Friday acknowledged they seized all documents, including ones not listed on the warrant.

Hence the problem.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Unless you grew wings or drove a car to Europe yes they know when you arrived and when you left.

They knew when I arrived. Not when I left. I showed no passport on departure from Paris, though I was prepared to.

The governments response on Friday acknowledged they seized all documents, including ones not listed on the warrant.

I have not seen that information. Can you provide it?

originally posted by: Phage
They knew when I arrived. Not when I left.

Nope - They knew the moment you booked your flight you were heading to an EU country and that EU country knew you were coming there when you booked your flight. The same holds in reverse. The departure country and arriving country (EU back to US) knew when you were leaving and when you arrived before you even took off.

originally posted by: Phage I have not seen that information.

Then I suggest you get informed and read their response if you want to continue debating.


ETA - I need to step away for a bit to take care of some things. We can continue hockling at each other when I get back and when you are back online.

a reply to: Xcathdra

They knew the moment you booked your flight you were heading to an EU country and that EU country knew you were coming there when you booked your flight.

I don't think so. If I had missed my flight (I damn near did), what then?

Then I suggest you get informed and read their response if you want to continue debating.

How's about you show me. I've showed you information about which you were mistaken. You might have the courtesy of doing the same.

a reply to: IAMTAT

Are we surprised? Really.

originally posted by: Phage
I don't think so.

APIS says you are wrong. Even if you miss your flight your info is still transmitted to the destination country. Since they get their info from our government database our government also knows. Whether you take an earlier flight or a later flight the passenger info for the lfight you are on is logged in the US system and transmitted to the EU destination countries system.

originally posted by: Phage
How's about you show me. I've showed you information about which you were mistaken. You might have the courtesy of doing the same.

How about you actually do the work and research it. You do know how to use google right?

5 second search -
Government reponse to Cohen motion filed Friday 13th 2018. ***PDF***

a reply to: TheRedneck

BWAHAHAHA..

Ever heard of civil forfeiture???


Basically, they can confiscate your money/property and the YOU HAVE TO PROVE YOUR MONEY WAS LEGAL???

a reply to: Xcathdra

This is new info. Probably obtained during the raid last Monday. Was that less than a week ago. God help us...

This hasn't been debunked.
There's probably a ton of # in Cohen's cachet since it appears he didn't have many other clients but trump.

a reply to: TheRedneck

No trump isn't superman.

He's toast.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: TheRedneck

No trump isn't superman.

He's toast.

You also said hillery was going to be president.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Phage

No, it shouldn't. Someone better have some damn serious charges to pull this kind of a stunt.

TheRedneck

Agree, but also strongly believe they do for a couple of reasons.

A LOT OF PEOPLE put their butts on the line signing off on this raid. Most of them Republicans and appointed by or promoted by Republicans or Trump himself.

From DOJ to AGs to Judges to FBI, all signed their name authorizing the raid on a sitting President's attorney.

Their reputation, career and future are all on the line. ALL of them.

In my strong opinion, that succession of authorities would not comfortably take that career-ending risk without very compelling evidence of very serious crimes.

I also don't believe Trump would be reacting so (sorry but it is the only word that applies) "triggered" if this raid wasn't going to lead to anything serious.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: TheRedneck

No trump isn't superman.

He's toast.

You also said hillery was going to be president.

Hillary and 2016 are over.
Everyone knows much more now than they knew then.
A well informed public is necessary for a free democracy.
That is why Propaganda is the primary weapon of those looking to erode or destroy democracies.

a reply to: soberbacchus


Trump pardons cohen,manafort and flynn most likely. then mueller has nothing plus 1.no firing required.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: TheRedneck

No trump isn't superman.

He's toast.

You also said hillery was going to be president.

This is why we cant believe anything from either side without forensic evidence backed testimony

Hillary and 2016 are over.
Everyone knows much more now than they knew then.
A well informed public is necessary for a free democracy.
That is why Propaganda is the primary weapon of those looking to erode or destroy democracies.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Xcathdra

This is new info. Probably obtained during the raid last Monday. Was that less than a week ago. God help us...

This hasn't been debunked.
There's probably a ton of # in Cohen's cachet since it appears he didn't have many other clients but trump.

No - their is no new info. Muellers team has not stated whats being reported. It is based on "2 sources familiar with the investigation". The "Cohen going to Prague to meet Russians" came from Clinton/Obama/DNC funded dossier. When the claim about him being in Prague was debunked the "sources" then came up with this -

Cohen has said he was only in New York and briefly in Los Angeles during August, when the meeting may have occurred, though the sources said it also could have been held in early September.

Now the source is changing the time of the trip because the original claim was debunked by facts.

Buzzfeed was provided with Cohens passport. He was not in Prague / Europe when the meeting supposedly occurred.

In the ensuing months, he allowed Buzzfeed to inspect his passport and tweeted: “The #Russian dossier is WRONG!”

Finally -
Mueller has evidence Trump attorney Michael Cohen was in Prague in 2016, confirming part of Steele dossier

But investigators have traced evidence that Cohen entered the Czech Republic through Germany, apparently during August or early September of 2016 as the ex-spy reported, said the sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is confidential. He wouldn’t have needed a passport for such a trip, because both countries are in the so-called Schengen Area in which 26 nations operate with open borders. The disclosure still left a puzzle: The sources did not say whether Cohen took a commercial flight or private jet to Europe, and gave no explanation as to why no record of such a trip has surfaced.

Peter Carr, a spokesman for Mueller’s office, declined comment.

It has been debunked. Muellers team did not release this info. It is once again using unnamed sources. They cant explain why they keep changing the time frame of the meeting. They cant provide any evidence he was in Prague, let alone Europe at the time this supposedly occurred.

Whenever a flight from the US departs for Europe or Europe to the US all passenger info is logged into APIS. APIS is a federal program that allows passenger data to be sent from the US to the destination country and vice versa. The info included is name, passport info, nationality, etc etc (there are a few others items sent but the above is the key point).

Even though a US citizen traveling to Europe for tourism or business does not need a VISA, and once in the Schengen Area they can freely cross a national border without customs stamps, it is mandatory for the person to have their passport stamped upon arriving in a Schengen Area country from the US and it is mandatory to have your passport stamped when leaving to come back to the US (or other country destination. Passport / customs checks inside the EU can be reinstated without notice. If Cohen attempted to enter a Schengen Area from a country that is not a part of it, normal customs procedures apply, including the need for a visa.

There is no evidence he went to Prague. There is, once again, speculation based on political bias in an effort to keep the Trump Russia bs front and center.

So unless you can show me where the confirmation is of his entrance to a Schengen Area nation coupled with passport stamps on entering and again on leaving.... The APIS requirements extend to all flights from the US to EU and vice versa, up to and including private flights. Even cruise lines running between the countries are required to submit the same info.

So even though there might not be a way to show he was in Prague via his passport there are records that would show he traveled to Europe, what country he landed in and what country he departed from to come back to the US. Thus far those simple records checks have shown nothing to support the dossiers claim.

ETA -
To support what I am talking about we can go back to the days of Obama not being a US citizen mess. During that investigation federal records were searched for all flights into Hawaii from foreign destination. Those records provide the name of the person and country of departure (among other info). This was done back in the 1960's.

A record of Cohens travels would exist to the extent he could be placed in a certain country / geo region on a certain time / date.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Phage
I don't think so.

APIS says you are wrong. Even if you miss your flight your info is still transmitted to the destination country. Since they get their info from our government database our government also knows. Whether you take an earlier flight or a later flight the passenger info for the lfight you are on is logged in the US system and transmitted to the EU destination countries system.

That is a very good point and likely will be a very relevant factor to the investigation.

If the Special Counsel has hard evidence of Cohen in Prague, entering through Germany, then how did he get there.

If it was a commercial flight they would have it.

That leads me to believe he either travelled
(A) Under a false name. Too risky and false passports seem best suited for the movies or at least people that would not be recognizable by a passport agent.

(B) Private jet. Now THAT seems possible. Either Trump or donor.

originally posted by: [post=23320966]Xcathdra

5 second search -
Government reponse to Cohen motion filed Friday 13th 2018. ***PDF***

INTERESTING! Thank you.

THIS from your link:

These searches were carried out as part of an ongoing grand jury investigation being conducted by the USAO-SDNY and the FBI.
.....
Although Cohen accurately states that the Special Counsel’s Office (“SCO”) referred
this investigation to the USAO-SDNY, the investigation has proceeded independent from the
SCO’s investigation.

www.politico.com...

There has been an ONGOING GRAND JURY INVESTIGATION conducted by United States Attorneys Office - Southern District New York and the FBI!

The AG in NY and FBI had a Grand Jury investigating Cohen or something he was involved in BEFORE the Special Counsel handed over this evidence.

originally posted by: soberbacchus
(B) Private jet. Now THAT seems possible. Either Trump or donor.

APIS requirements also apply to all private flights from the US to EU and vice versa. It also applies to cruise ships running between the countries.

As for fake name I agree. Given the level of security between the US and EU I highly doubt he could have pulled it off. Even landing in a non EU country his passport would require a stamp and depending on the country he would need a visa. That creates a paper trail that so far is nonexistent.

Finally there is always he possibility he somehow illegally entered the EU and then illegally entered the US on his return however, again, there is absolutely nothing that supports that possibility.

Cohens investigation revolves around criminal acts dealing with Ukraine. In my opinion when Cohen was raided and labeled a suspect the original author of the Cohen in Prague decided to repeat his debunked claim and sold it by saying there is new evidence. Since Mueller referred this to the SDNY, that action also undermines the Prague new info claims as well.

ETA -

There has been an ONGOING GRAND JURY INVESTIGATION conducted by United States Attorneys Office - Southern District New York and the FBI!

The AG in NY and FBI had a Grand Jury investigating Cohen or something he was involved in BEFORE the Special Counsel handed over this evidence.

The fact this all came about because of an investigation the SC was not involved in, logic would say the investigation has nothing to do with Trump. The info concerning the investigation into Cohen backs that up as well. It looks like lying to the FBI and financial crimes.

If it were related to Trump it never would have been referred.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Xcathdra

This is new info. Probably obtained during the raid last Monday. Was that less than a week ago. God help us...

This hasn't been debunked.
There's probably a ton of # in Cohen's cachet since it appears he didn't have many other clients but trump.

No - their is no new info. Muellers team has not stated whats being reported. It is based on "2 sources familiar with the investigation". The "Cohen going to Prague to meet Russians" came from Clinton/Obama/DNC funded dossier. When the claim about him being in Prague was debunked the "sources" then came up with this -

Cohen has said he was only in New York and briefly in Los Angeles during August, when the meeting may have occurred, though the sources said it also could have been held in early September.

Now the source is changing the time of the trip because the original claim was debunked by facts.

FALSE:

You are claiming that "Now the source is changing the time of the trip (from august to september) because the original claim was debunked by facts."

When in fact the original Dossier says September.



archive.org.../n33/mode/2up/search/september

Cohen offered the fact he was seen in LA one day and NY for a couple days the end of August. He hasn't accounted for his time beyond that as far as I am aware.
Given he was prominently operating in Trump's campaign during that insanely busy time toward the last couple months, you'd think he would simply have a schedule or meetings etc. and could hand over a calendar.
He could simply hand over his schedule for the last couple weeks in August and the first couple weeks in September.
Certainly he wasn't by himself watching TV the whole time. He was one of Trump's principles in the campaign.

originally posted by: Xcathdra


Cohens investigation revolves around criminal acts dealing with Ukraine. In my opinion when Cohen was raided and labeled a suspect the original author of the Cohen in Prague decided to repeat his debunked claim and sold it by saying there is new evidence. Since Mueller referred this to the SDNY, that action also undermines the Prague new info claims as well.

Where have you seen this was about Ukraine?
Since most corruption in Ukraine involves Russian Oligarchs close to Putin, I would think that would remain in Muller's lane (like Manafort), but this was handed off.