if it is possible then how can it be unnatural?

i read that last night and i have been thinking about it.

if it is possible then how can it be unnatural?

i am talking from a biological perspective.
we see this argument a lot when it comes to homosexuality. we hear that is goes against what god says and that it does not happen in the animal kingdom so it is not natural and wrong..

but if its possible then isnt it natural?
take belief systems and myths out of it and just look it it biologically... why is it wrong?

it is not always about procreation...
bonobo's have sex for other reasons besides procreation.

sex gives us pleasure. there are people that have those desires and it is possible so it seems to reason that it is natural.

once you start factoring in belief systems and myths(that are totally made up) then you get into the areas of 'its wrong

its wrong in those belief systems but we made those belief systems up.
it is woven fiction....

why? to give people morals??? something else we totally made up

to give people a shared system to move people towards cooperation?


no matter how you feel its fun to think about.

when you think at things biologically and take out beliefs then things are very different.

a reply to: TinySickTears

Yes if something is happening, or observed to be someway, then that would be a natural event.


But. Just believing something is possible does not make it so. And just because something is conceivably possible, does not mean that it is probable, or likely to be.

Empirical evidence is always needed before something can be considered. Otherwise it is only speculation.

a reply to: TinySickTears

I have always felt that the only goal of any life form is reproduction.
Gays would not do that naturally so by Darwin's ideas they would not continue the gene line.

That being said, I don't think they have any more control over their sexuality than they have control over what food tastes good to them.

They have been shunned over the years by something completely out of their control.

originally posted by: TinySickTears
i read that last night and i have been thinking about it.

if it is possible then how can it be unnatural?

A lot of things are possible but unnatural.

It's possible for a mother to kill her baby, but it's unnatural.

It's possible for you to eat feces, but it's not natural

It's possible for you to step out in front of a traveling train, but it's not natural.

It's possible for people to be pedophiles, but it's not natural.

All of these have biological aspects.

Your argument is invalid.

:

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: TinySickTears

I have always felt that the only goal of any life form is reproduction.
.

big picture... yes
to make copies of your our DNA. pass it on

but just because a male enjoys sex with another male that does not mean he can ONLY have sex with males and it does not mean they are bonded for life.

the fact is you can be a male and enjoy sex with other males and still have sex with women to pass on copies of the DNA

and just because passing on copies of our DNA is the end goal as a species that does not mean everything we do has to push towards that.

this # takes a lot of open minded thinking.
once we put imagined barriers and constructs to it that we created is where it start to be unnatural and immoral and all that.

a reply to: incoserv

moot because that is how you see it?

natural and common are not the same thing.

i think all those things could be argued that they are natural once you take the imagined # out of it.

it is unnatural for a mother to kill her baby if.....
it is unnatural for a mother to kill her baby because.....

we also have to look at it from the perspective of thousands and millions of years. not just the recent past.

70,000 years ago was it natural for a mother to kill her baby if she could not care for it or if that baby was a burden on the pack? if the baby required something that was cause the pack to slow sown or not be as strong?
thee answer is yes it was.

a reply to: TinySickTears

When you apply this to humans only you are right.
We tend to do stupid things to ourselves too that animals don't. Hell we actively find creative ways to harm our bodies.
But as you say, we also limit ourselves with self imposed morals.

a reply to: TinySickTears

Interesting question. I suppose another way to put it would be "what constitutes something unnatural?"

Well, in one man's opinion, anything that would intentionally prevent the natural flow of love and creation.

Example: Murder. Is the act possible? Sure. Would life as whole eventually cease if every single person committed it? Yes.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: TinySickTears

I have always felt that the only goal of any life form is reproduction.
Gays would not do that naturally so by Darwin's ideas they would not continue the gene line.

That being said, I don't think they have any more control over their sexuality than they have control over what food tastes good to them.

They have been shunned over the years by something completely out of their control.

Then why are there gay people today? They come from straight people, not other gay people. I agree with your sentiments, though.

a reply to: TinySickTears

well the ten commandments are not unnatural then

so givin your line of thought they would be the natural order of everything which is actually laws of electricity

natural electricity as in the word



not made up at all but made after

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: TinySickTears

When you apply this to humans only you are right.
We tend to do stupid things to ourselves too that animals don't. Hell we actively find creative ways to harm our bodies.
But as you say, we also limit ourselves with self imposed morals.

yeah. its just super fun to think about.
i know i dont know # but i like to read about this stuff and think about it for a while and form opinion.

it is hard to think about we as a people over thousands and millions of years.
it is hard to think about it without the limits of the imagined # we have put on it.

for the first time ever people are dying from eating too much rather than not eating enough


even that is fun to think about.
why do we do it to ourselves? why do people gorge and pack in all those calories when we know it is bad for us?

because we are not very far removed at all from the us of say 50k years ago.

back in those days if you were walking along and came across some high calories # your instinct would have been to eat as much of it as possible on the spot to get all those calories in. you might not have that chance for a while.

when you think about it like that it makes sense.

originally posted by: incoserv

originally posted by: TinySickTears
i read that last night and i have been thinking about it.

if it is possible then how can it be unnatural?

A lot of things are possible but unnatural.

It's possible for a mother to kill her baby, but it's unnatural.

It's possible for you to eat feces, but it's not natural

It's possible for you to step out in front of a traveling train, but it's not natural.

It's possible for people to be pedophiles, but it's not natural.

All of these have biological aspects.

Your argument is invalid.

:

And earthquakes are natural but earthquake-resistant structures are unnatural. Being burned alive in a forest fire is natural but flame retardant materials and extinguishers are unnatural. A family being torn apart by wolves is natural but a gun to fend them off is unnatural.

I think if I were to stress any point on this topic, it's that conflating "natural" with "good" and "unnatural" with "evil" is just stupid.

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: TinySickTears

I have always felt that the only goal of any life form is reproduction.
Gays would not do that naturally so by Darwin's ideas they would not continue the gene line.

That being said, I don't think they have any more control over their sexuality than they have control over what food tastes good to them.

They have been shunned over the years by something completely out of their control.

Then why are there gay people today? They come from straight people, not other gay people. I agree with your sentiments, though.

If we ever figure out why some people are gay maybe we can answer that question.
It may not be a generic thing considering it doesn't seem to be passed down the family tree.
It might be as simple as a brain chemistry thing.

a reply to: AgarthaSeed

i see what yo are saying but ever person does not commit murder...

only 1.5% of people die from violence in todays world. that number used to be far higher.
back in the day murder was necessary. sometimes

im just spewing # ive been reading but it makes sense and ive been thinking about it a lot.

go back to 70k years to the when we lived in packs. if one of your pack was slowing the group down which would put them all at risk then the group has to do something about it.
kill him.
if he is injured just leave him there.

murder 1 to save the rest of the group?
seems pretty natural. lose 1 or lose 20?
the species has a better chance if just the 1 goes

there were none of our laws back then based on morals and ethics that we created.

it was about surviving.

originally posted by: howtonhawky
a reply to: TinySickTears

well the ten commandments are not unnatural then

how do you figure that?
we made them up.
theyre just imagined

Cancer and other diseases are also natural, doesn't mean we should just accept them and let them run their course.

I'm not homophobic, and believe it's everyone's personal business who they have sex with (within legal bounds), but homosexuality does seem like nature's "mistake", because you need a man and a woman in order to procreate and allow species to survive. Sex is pleasurable so that we don't shy away from procreation.

By the way, there's been lots of cases of homosexuality in the animal kingdom. en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: wildespace

again
homosexuals can have kids.
happens all the time

i suppose if anything was natures mistake it would be people born infertile.

gay people can procreate.

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: howtonhawky
a reply to: TinySickTears

well the ten commandments are not unnatural then

how do you figure that?
we made them up.
theyre just imagined

made them up from what

you just said erything is natural

either you believe that or notsies

btw it really does not say that boinkin another dude is a sin

it says you should not boink other dudes

the reason is energy

we are energetic beings

tell you what take your car to the gas station and fill up your tailpipe with gas and lemme know how that works out

jees it aint rockerty sciences

a reply to: TinySickTears

I could walk out in front of a truck but its not natural. Possible is not a concomitant for something to be natural.

originally posted by: TinySickTears
a reply to: wildespace

again
homosexuals can have kids.
happens all the time

i suppose if anything was natures mistake it would be people born infertile.

gay people can procreate.

Yea folks that are otherwise "gay" can procreate but only when having natural hetro sex.