Will the Christians and Jews be Together in the End

originally posted by: MonarchofBooks1611
a reply to: howtonhawky

We will reconcile in the end, but it won't take place till the millennium. Which takes place after the coming 7 year tribulation. As of right now Jews are enemies to Christians, and Jesus taught us what to do with our enemies right?

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Let me know when you get a letter in the mail tellin you that the 7 yr. tribulation has begun.

How do we know it has not begun?

originally posted by: howtonhawky
a reply to: ntech

why 80 yrs

i remember when talking such not too long ago it was 72 yrs.

I'm going with 80 years based on the conditions placed on the Apocalypse by Matthew 24. Starting with verse 34.

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

As worded here this can be interpreted as meaning the lifetime of the generation being born at the time of the first end time event. Currently the average lifespan expectation is approximately 79 years. Also in Psalms 90-10 it's specified at 70 to 80 years. So I'm going with 80 years because of the curse I mentioned as well. If it started at the death of John the Baptist that means it started approximately in the 20s AD. Plus 2000 years puts that in the 2020s AD

And there are 2 other details in Matthew 24 to consider as well.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

This condition rules out the WW2 years as being the start of the Apocalypse. It had to start afterwards. However now the rebirth of a nation of Israel has to be a end time event. But the problem is it has to be the 2nd end time event. The first end time event is stated here.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

And according to verse 36 only the Father is supposed to know that actual date. But I have it pinned down to somewhere between Aug of 1945 to May of 1948. So as I see it the 7 year agreement could be signed anytime between now and May of 2021 based on a 80 year "lifetime of the generation".

Now I think I should add the one thing that's got me watching the middle east. And it's this.

Matthew 24

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

After thinking through verse 28 I have a possible solution for it. And the solution is that verse 28 is another reference back to the book of Daniel. Like verse 15. And what it's referring to is the battle of the ram and goat prophecy of Daniel 8. And what that prophecy predicts is this. A powerful country from the west attacks and conquers 2 nations or kings in the middle east.

So as I see it as of now we have been in the days of the tribulation of the carcass since Afghanistan and Iraq were conquered by the US. And the thing to be watching for? When it stops. Followed shortly afterwards by all hell breaking loose. And by my timeline it happens in the next 3-4 years.

originally posted by: ntech
Malachi 4
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Wow. More cursed. One is not enough, so god has to curse earth a second time?

Genesis 3:17
Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’;
Cursed is the ground because of you;
In toil you will eat of it
All the days of your life.

No wonder men are so evil and rebellious.

a reply to: Raggedyman

The “free the Jewish people from bondage” is the primary requirement for any messiah..


The part about “ knowledge of god and his laws”, comes from maybe isiah..

It is where god tells the Jewish people he will make a new covenant with them. Then he explains EXACTLY what that new covenant is.. aka nothing jesus did.

a reply to: howtonhawky

Belief has nothing to do with where we all go...

Yes... We will all be together in "the end" regardless of beliefs

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Raggedyman

The “free the Jewish people from bondage” is the primary requirement for any messiah..


The part about “ knowledge of god and his laws”, comes from maybe isiah..

It is where god tells the Jewish people he will make a new covenant with them. Then he explains EXACTLY what that new covenant is.. aka nothing jesus did.

Jesus did free Israel, from the bondage of sin, it's just up to the individual to accept the offer
Or are you looking for something else

The new covenant is Jesus

But believe as you wish

a reply to: EasternShadow

It would appear that he cursed the Israelites multiple times during their history. The splitting of Israel into Judah and the northern kingdom of Israel was caused by a curse triggered by Solomon when he bent a knee to a Idol. Multiple curses on that Israel and Judah leading up to the Assyrian occupation of the north and Babylonian occupation of the south. Then this 2000 year curse topping them all.

Though after this curse runs out it appears things will be run a bit differently in the day of Jezreel/1000 year reign of the saints.

a reply to: ntech

The curse was a judgement because of sin

a reply to: ntech

The splitting of Israel into Judah and the northern kingdom of Israel was caused by a curse triggered by Solomon when he bent a knee to a Idol.

Judea split from Israel after Solomon's son Rehoboam became the king. It was Rehoboam's policies and intentional decision to reject the Israeli people's concerns that directly caused the rest of Israel to rebel against him. It's told in detail from 1 Kings 12 onwards.

a reply to: Raggedyman

BWAHAHAHA..

Every other messiah in history ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY freed the Jewish people from real life slavery, but in jesus’s Case they didn’t mean in real life.... nooo...


They meant in some spiritual way that no one can ever test or verify...


Man... I just can’t imagaine why the Jewish people didn’t buy it?!?!

Lol.


It’s snake oil.. it’s obvious snake oil...

The exact same snake oil used by joseph Smith, David Koresh and l. Ron Hubbard...


The Jews don’t even believe in ANYTHING that resembles that.. all the Jewish phrophecies areforst person and VERY easy to verify, because they are such big real world events..


Because from their POV, god wanted them to know exactly what he wanted. He didn’t hid his wishes by leaving a snippet of phrophecy A in isiah and another of phyophecy A in some other book.


He said it all first person , unambiguously.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

You are welcome to believe or disbelieve what the bible teaches
It can be all a big joke to you if you like, no harm in that

a reply to: Raggedyman

That is why the Jews didn’t buy it.. it is all FUNDAMENTALLY different and in most cases completely the opposite of judiaism..

The whole “spiritual kingdom of heaven” is a uniquely Christian there..

The son of god stuff is uniquely Christian.

The Christian concepts of heaven and hell are uniquely Christian..

Faith being greater than real life works , is uniquely Christian..


And there are countless more..


Those should be unchanging fundamentals of BOTH religions.. but they are not..


Somehow Christianity is based off Judaism, but shares none of the constants it should..


Why??


Because Christianity wasn’t a religion by Jews, for Jews..


It is a religion by Romans, for Romans..

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: howtonhawky

Belief has nothing to do with where we all go...

Yes... We will all be together in "the end" regardless of beliefs

false

many pick out nice trees to be put under and they believe they will go there and many do

the only way to be together in the end beyond the dirt is to have someone save your spirit from your body before they cook your spirit in the lakeofire

quite delicious in many cases

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Really, christianity is different to Judaism, I hadn't noticed, duh
That's your argument, it's different..
Did you just notice
Christianity doesn't share any of the religios principles with Judaism, isn't that obvious

Christianity is not a religion for Jews, just Jews, it is for anyone, that's the point

It is based off Judaism but it wasn't by Romans, that's why Rome and the Jews killed Christ, killed Christians

You are making an absurd argument, no logic

Just a simple question, what do you think I have to do with Rome or the Roman Catholic church
My faith is in Jesus, not a church

a reply to: Raggedyman

No surface level “we both believe in the same things, but have a couple diffences..”


FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCES..


Structural differences..


Jesus shouldn’t have structurally changed the heaven/earth/hell dynamic.. he just changed the dogma and allowed entry into heaven for all the believers.

He made no claim of manifesting a hell..


B ) today your absolutely right.. Christianity is all inclusive... well I guess except for gays and non-Christians..


However, the question is were first century Christians all inclusive??? This all inclusive Christianity in a brand new thing.. they spent most of the last 1900 years burning folks and libraries..


C) you don’t have jesus’s Words..

You have the words the Romans claim jesus saiid..

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Or your claims that I don't have His words
Your words and your words have no value to me

a reply to: Raggedyman

Scholars claim there is no way to know what jesus actually said and did..

Scholars who actually believe he was an historical figure..


I doubt ANY critical scholar (meaning scholar who looked at the evidence for what it was, not what they wanted it to be) has EVER claimed the Bible was written by eye witnesses..


You have 50+ years of oral history AFTER his death.,


Then mark surfaces, and there are some reason to believe was written by potentially the appropriate Jews, written for Jews.

All the other gospels are highly suspect..


Then 80 years later you have Paul claim he had visions and form his own sect. He then Wrote letters with other groups of Christians to tell them his opinions on the issues. Only, totally unbeknownst to him, to have those letters cannonized...


According to the people who actually learn Hebrew, and translate the earliest versions. Mark is the only book with any chance of portraying the actual words of jesus without ATLEAST half a century of oral traditions muddying the water..


there is not one New Testament critical (not apologetic scholar) scholar who could claim any passage was for sure attributed to jesus.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Raggedyman

Scholars claim there is no way to know what jesus actually said and did..

Scholars who actually believe he was an historical figure..


I doubt ANY critical scholar (meaning scholar who looked at the evidence for what it was, not what they wanted it to be) has EVER claimed the Bible was written by eye witnesses..


You have 50+ years of oral history AFTER his death.,


Then mark surfaces, and there are some reason to believe was written by potentially the appropriate Jews, written for Jews.

All the other gospels are highly suspect..


Then 80 years later you have Paul claim he had visions and form his own sect. He then Wrote letters with other groups of Christians to tell them his opinions on the issues. Only, totally unbeknownst to him, to have those letters cannonized...


According to the people who actually learn Hebrew, and translate the earliest versions. Mark is the only book with any chance of portraying the actual words of jesus without ATLEAST half a century of oral traditions muddying the water..


there is not one New Testament critical (not apologetic scholar) scholar who could claim any passage was for sure attributed to jesus.

Really,
Really,

You know what JC, purely on a personal level, attributing to our previous discussions
I have little respect to your opinion
Nothing will probably change that

As I said, believe what you want

I don't care about the book, I don't care about all the translations, I don't care about your opinion

I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ
You could never understand

a reply to: Raggedyman

You mean you have no valid counterpoints, so your forced to resort to getting personal..

None of that is MY opinion..


Watch debates between critical and apologist scholars and you get both sides best arguments..

You find out where all the points of contention are..

When both debaters agree on a fact. You can be relatively sure that is the accepted option..

If you want to know the differences between Christianity and Judaism. You catch debates between messianic Jews (Christians) and Jews..

If you want to know the historical accounts of jesus. You watch apologist and critical scholars debate those points.

Both Christians and atheists quote Bart erhman..

I’ve watched him debate everyone and no one has ever called him a liar..


If your only looking at stuff you want to be true , you will actually know when something is..