Will the Christians and Jews be Together in the End

It coincides with todays laws of proxy. If i give my proxy to act on my behalf then there really is no difference at that point between myself and another i allowed to act on my behalf until i again retain my charge if such time comes around.

It could be in that manner in which both Christians and Jews were right but the Jews did not recognize what happened and had to pay a price.

originally posted by: knoxie
a reply to: Raggedyman


do christians and jews believe in the same god?

and, wasn't he initially the god of israel? just one of MANY pagan gods?

Christians and Jews believe in the same God, most Jews don't believe in the Messiah Jesus and the new covenant Jesus brought to His people

a reply to: Raggedyman


was he initially called "the god of Israel" before the jews decided to become monotheistic?

originally posted by: knoxie
a reply to: Raggedyman


was he initially called "the god of Israel" before the jews decided to become monotheistic?

There are accounts God was before Abraham, before Abraham was called to a covenant
It's not really known, Gemesis is our best guess (for most Christians) of our origins
We don't understand our Gods origins

originally posted by: knoxie
a reply to: Raggedyman


do christians and jews believe in the same god?

and, wasn't he initially the god of israel? just one of MANY pagan gods?

Well technically, there were many many gods that people believed in. There are many many books from all around the area. The OT was taken straight from the jewish talmud, but that came from babylon and the code of hammurabi, the epic of gilgamesh, the story of zarathustra, and the sumerian genesis stories, and there are plenty of other books that were liberally taken from.

Jesus fictions became a popular form of telling moralistict stories like Aesop’s fables which are around 500 years older. They would take hero stories from other cultures and place jesus or another character as the main character. All of the stories like peter, saul, mary magdeline have earlier comparable stories that were drawn from. Then you have people writing books as if they were written by mathew, mark, luke, john, thomas, peter, judas, etc, but they are obviously written way after the life of an alleged jesus was put to death. The first was mathew and the others are all taken from that and embellished more and more as they progress. If you look in the oldest account, mathew, you’ll see that jesus is portrayed as a normal human with no special powers.

it wasn’t until the romans got a hold of it and decided which books should be make up the core belief of the Catholic church.

But there were as many books as there were villages. In the stories of Moses, the jewish god yaweh was def jealous of the attention that his people were giving to competing gods.

According to the rules of their own books, no.
But in reality they will all be worm food (or stardust if you want to be a little more lofty), so yes.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Woodcarver

In your country, maybe
But yes, some in Islam want everyone that doesn't accept their views wiped out, though
I have read and seen a few atheist say and do the same thing with people of faith

Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot come to mind

I’ve seen plenty of christians say the same thing, so i think it’s fair to say that this is a human problem, and that bad people can use any ideology to justify committing atrocities.

Would you agree?

a reply to: howtonhawky

Which Christians and which Jews? Neither label is homogenous. If it's unification you want, it would be better to start by asking "Will all Christian denominations come together in the End?" and "Will all Jewish denominations come together in the End?".

There are already interfaith movements where various denominations from various religions work together and treat each other as fellow believers. But that's a completely different task from getting all denominations to work together.

a reply to: howtonhawky

They didn't recognize Jesus because he was in his glorified body - both physical/spiritual. Heaven is spiritual. Earth is physical. Jesus ate to show them that he was not a spirit (demon).

a reply to: howtonhawky

Sure we all decompose to dust, so eventually we'll all be together as dirt.

a reply to: intrptr

The Jews in the day were waiting for their Messiah who they believed was going to be an actual king on earth and would physically fight their enemies. Jesus was actually speaking and prophesying about eternal life, reconciliation with God, His role as everyone's Savior and future events. And so they rejected him.

The Jews are still chosen but when they rejected Jesus God stopped interacting with them. Their time of reconciliation with God is still to come - during the Tribulation, "Jacob's Trouble". In the meantime God opened his love to all.

For those who are questioning the veil: In the days before Jesus there was a veil that separated all humans from the very most holy chamber in the temple. One assigned and worthy priest was chosen to go within that chamber and pray to God on behalf of all the people. When Jesus died on the cross that veil was ripped as now we could access Jesus Himself (to God) and no one was needed as an in-between person. We simply have to accept Jesus as our Savior and we have immediate access and a personal relationship.

Just thought I'd add my two cents for those who might be questioning what you have said

a reply to: Woodcarver

I completely agree. Unfortunately humans have allowed themselves to act and speak on behalf of God. They aren't putting God and his word first. They are acting out of ego and selfish reasons. They say they are Christian. Christian is a human label.

On one hand I call myself a Christian as it's how the world differentiates between beliefs, but truly, I am a follower of Jesus. There are too many sects of Christians and some are cults, some are out to lunch, others are operating under what their Christian leaders are telling them to believe (such will be held accountable by God). Then there are believers who are true Christians but all on different levels of understanding and growth and we should all be able to get along as we strive to live for God through Jesus our Redeemer.

a reply to: howtonhawky

There won't be any labels in the end. The end will be simply an acceptance of Jesus as the Savior who has brought us back to God. We will simply acknowledge Jesus for who He is and live in that mindset.

During Tribulation it will be the worst time ever known in history or the present. It will be unimaginable. Some will finally understand who Jesus is and accept Him. Others will still reject Him. And that is where the impact will be in those going through the Tribulation: a believer vs a non believer. This will hit when the Antichrist steps forward.

So yes, those who are believers, become believers will be reconciled, but so will all other believers of any other faith. All humans will be believers or non-believers.

a reply to: InvisibleLady


if jesus/god is love - why a tribulation at all? what's it's purpose? fear?

a reply to: howtonhawky

Do you believe that the Jews and Christians will be reconciled in the end?

What will it take to do so.

How could this be achieved?

Yes. It has already been done.

Jewish emancipation was the external (and internal) process in various nations in Europe of eliminating Jewish disabilities, e.g. Jewish quotas, to which Jewish people were then subject, and the recognition of Jews as entitled to equality and citizenship rights on a communal, not merely individual, basis. It included efforts within the community to integrate into their societies as citizens. It occurred gradually between the late 18th century and the early 20th century. Jewish emancipation followed the Age of Enlightenment and the concurrent Jewish enlightenment. Various nations repealed or superseded previous discriminatory laws applied specifically against Jews where they resided. Before the emancipation, most Jews were isolated in residential areas from the rest of the society; emancipation was a major goal of European Jews of that time, who worked within their communities to achieve integration in the majority societies and broader education.

Ethnic Jews and Ethnic Christians have lived, worked, and even politicked together since the late 1700s.

Also who is Marcus in the bible and what type of commandments did he give?

One possibility is that he is this guy:

Acts 15:36 Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us go back and visit the believers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing.” 37Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, 38but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. 39They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, 40but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the believers to the grace of the Lord.

a reply to: knoxie

Because the Antichrist will proclaim himself as God. He will demand that a choice be made via a mark. One can choose now before any Tribulation starts.

Some see accepting Jesus as giving in to God. It's not giving in, it's simply choosing one of only two choices. We think of such a choice from a human viewpoint. And when one chooses God, that is where the Holy Spirt comes to dwell within you which is when one sees and experiences the true love from God. Otherwise, think of it as a closed door. His love is being rejected and denied and so one will not see how God truly operates in lives.

One can simply agree that God is love and He sent Jesus to be the bridge back to Him - that Jesus is the only way to God, that he died in our place meaning any tainting of us as human beings can be removed through the power of Jesus. All else after this life will be good. One doesn't even need to discuss what eternity will be like, or to do good works. It's simply a decision of what Jesus did for one.

We watch movies of this same set up all the time: choose King Arthur or choose whoever is fighting him (the evil side), the battles of good and evil in the Matrix, or Star Wars, Harry Potter, even Schindler's List. One watches these movies and no one sits there and wishes for the evil that is being portrayed to win. We, as people, tend to root for the good guys. And that is the basic story going down and why one must choose. No one in these examples ever sits on the sidelines. Yes they do, but ultimately the end win decides how life will be for every life.

And so therefore, come the Tribulation, those who haven't made their decision will go through the Tribulation. When the Rapture happens is when we believers will be removed from earth to spare us from the devastation and horrors to come. One needn't experience the Tribulation at all. There is a way out planned.

a reply to: howtonhawky

that is why there will be a battle for control in the end

Oh there will be a battle alright, except nobody ever said it would be fought by humans with weapons... its being fought right now, for your minds. your weapons are your good works and prayers and alms...that's it. if your sitting back waiting with your shotgun for a could of demons on the horizon like this is some damn Hollywood movie your going to miss all the action.

a reply to: howtonhawky

Watch debates between messianic Jews(Christians) and Jews.. the Jewish interpretation of the Torah IS NOTHING like the Christian version.

First off anyone who is familiar with Judaism , rather than the Christian version of Judaism, knows there is ZERO chance the Jews ever convert..

Well besides a literal global supernatural event that was undeniable..


Even then the Old Testament sites VERY SPECIFIC signs that would have to be met.


The Old Testament and Torah and not the same as they “should be” if one were truely based on the other..

People will argue otherwise, but no one can argue these are the way Jews have interpreted THEIR religion for a couple thousand years..

A) there is no divine figure predicted in the Torah, let alone a “son of god”.

B) in Judaism A messiah is one of many political leaders who are required to fulfill a checklist.

There have been many, with Cyrus the great being the first one.

C) the Torah directly and repeatedly (600+ times repeatedly) states for believers “to obey my laws”.. “if your ever confused about what to do, Obey my laws”, “if someone ever tells you that you no longer have to obey my laws. They are lying. Obey my laws..


What did jesus do from the Christian pov??

He changed the laws..

Something the Torah says repeatedly not to do.

a reply to: howtonhawky

The Jews are not waiting for a divine “son of god to emerge”...

There is no “Son of god”, divine being to be sacrificed, no hell, no belief that faith is greater than works....

They are not even remotely the same religion AND THEY SHOULD BE..



They are waiting for a political leader who will free them from bondage , then his offspring will rule Judaism for 1000 years. Which will be signaled by the fact that all of humanity is born knowing about god and his laws..

Here is a great debate between the most prominent messianic jew (Christian who follows Jewish law) and a jewish rabbi.

youtu.be...


You have a random rabbit vs. literally the best messianic jew at public speaking , and the rabbi just runs him over pointing out the differences.

Jesus did not fulfill prophecy as the Jews imagined He would. So even though He did fulfill prophecy, they rejected Him, and they still wait for their conquering warrior king.

The End of Days will be where God turns His eyes and attention to them, and they will be reconciled and admit Jesus is Lord.

Even then, only a remnant will be saved, but that won't be any different than it will be with the rest of us gentiles. Only a remnant of us will be saved out too.