How come liberals don't want to talk about mental health in relation to school shootings?

a reply to: amazing

Ask yourself this:

If we had better mental health care and services, how many of these shooting episodes would have been averted before ever getting to the stage of the gun itself?

That might be why people are less willing to talk about intervention at the stage of gun control. For many of us, this is an issue that needs to be fixed at the personal level rather than at the level of the tool.

Remember the big drunk driving crusades of our youth? OK, maybe you're a lot younger than I am, but drunk driving was a huge thing when I was in school. It was the heyday or MADD and SADD and all those groups. Back in my day, no one assumed that if a kid went out and got drunk and died in a car wreck or killed others in that wreck, it was something where we needed to look at better car control to prevent those poor drunk kids from being in the car in the first place by not having access to them.

Instead, it was a huge awareness campaign where kids needed to be educated about why they couldn't drive drunk and how they should take care of themselves and each other if they had been drinking. You know, CALL SOMEONE! Don't try to hide it and drive. This educational stuff was directed at parents too. You know, better to have a live kid who calls you, even if he/she *has* been drinking than a dead one who was afraid to call you, etc.

Maybe people assume that similar person-centered campaigns might make a bigger difference than simply trying to rule out the tools.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: amazing

Ask yourself this:

If we had better mental health care and services, how many of these shooting episodes would have been averted before ever getting to the stage of the gun itself?

That might be why people are less willing to talk about intervention at the stage of gun control. For many of us, this is an issue that needs to be fixed at the personal level rather than at the level of the tool.

Remember the big drunk driving crusades of our youth? OK, maybe you're a lot younger than I am, but drunk driving was a huge thing when I was in school. It was the heyday or MADD and SADD and all those groups. Back in my day, no one assumed that if a kid went out and got drunk and died in a car wreck or killed others in that wreck, it was something where we needed to look at better car control to prevent those poor drunk kids from being in the car in the first place by not having access to them.

Instead, it was a huge awareness campaign where kids needed to be educated about why they couldn't drive drunk and how they should take care of themselves and each other if they had been drinking. You know, CALL SOMEONE! Don't try to hide it and drive. This educational stuff was directed at parents too. You know, better to have a live kid who calls you, even if he/she *has* been drinking than a dead one who was afraid to call you, etc.

Maybe people assume that similar person-centered campaigns might make a bigger difference than simply trying to rule out the tools.

I remember those and that, I think, IS the right response.

Disingenuous OP, it has been discussed
Also, other countries have almost the exact same figures of mental illness, and people on meds..yet shootings do not happen in anywhere near the same proportion.

Wrote the Book on Active Shooters for the U.S. Air Force Academy. Found one common denominator across everyone of these events. Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor Drugs. (SSRIs) It not when they're taking these drugs it's when they abruptly stop taking them and they experience what is known as Serotonin Whiplash. I challenge you to create a list of everyone of these incidents you can muster. Then cross-check against the following website.

ssristories.org...
a reply to: amazing

originally posted by: intrepid
Who says they don't? I've seen it discussed here and the libs were involved in the conversation. This is pretty inflammatory and incorrect imo.

A fleeting comment of acknowledgement hardly constitutes 'discussing it' - it's the differential priority afforded to guns versus the retards with the guns.

But, according to some, its just the guns - the mental cases do not warrant attention to any degree comparable to restricting a very specific inanimate object that cannot kill unless a human is added to the equation.

Could you post a discussion where one of our mutual left-leaning folk go hard addressing this issue - it's a genuine request so I can gauge how accurate your statement is.

Damn near every mass shooter is doped up on anti-depressants or mood stabilizers too. Mental health and potentially dangerous drugs should most certainly be in the conversation.

originally posted by: vonclod
Disingenuous OP, it has been discussed
Also, other countries have almost the exact same figures of mental illness, and people on meds..yet shootings do not happen in anywhere near the same proportion.

How is it Disingenuous? It's not being discussed enough. Look at ATS for one example, most liberal posts are only dealing with gun control. Yes other countries have similiar figures, but there's something missing. Take Canada, I think 20 million guns in circulation with less population, yet less school shootings. Guns are a part but a small part of the equation and I'm okay with some tougher gun restrictions or policy, but I think that mental health is a bigger issue. We're not doing something right, our cutlure is off somehow, our schools aren't responding to bullying, mental health and youth in crises the way other countries do. Something is way off here. Yes?

a reply to: amazing

It's called a wedge issue. Everyone is supposed to line up at polar opposites and indignantly sling poo at one another like the hairless chimps that we are.

originally posted by: milypr81
Damn near every mass shooter is doped up on anti-depressants or mood stabilizers too. Mental health and potentially dangerous drugs should most certainly be in the conversation.

agreed. We shoudl be talking about this.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: amazing

It's called a wedge issue. Everyone is supposed to line up at polar opposites and indignantly sling poo at one another like the hairless chimps that we are.

I know you're liberal, more so than me, I think.. so what's your actual take on this?

I will not condemn liberals on not speaking about mental health. They have brought this up in the past and were silenced due to conservative religious fears. Now the more conservative are only speaking up and are getting the silence.

Both sides are at fault. It is always a circle jerk that is created by others to keep us all divided.

Earlier this month, when students were having their Walk outs, the MSM was big on only showing the gun control aspect. Other schools had more common sense and instead of Walk Outs they initiated Walk Ups. They focused on the actual school issue leading up to all of these school shootings. Students reaching out to fellow students including the loners and the bullied.

Students Walk Up instead of Walk out


Sadly, these gems of realistic out reaching are buried deep and even sneered at. I find it more uplifting than teenagers seeking the limelight and MSM/Politics taking advantage of their innocence and ignorance. I certainly would have more respect for the student protestors if they were actually tackling the mental issue aspect and not simply a tool used by such an individual.

a reply to: amazing

It doesn't get discussed because the Right believes mental health will be used as a way of keeping people from guns.

I believe Trump even made it easier for those with "problems" to get guns.

I'd would LOVE every gun owner to have to take a mental health test. Are you guys saying you want to talk about this?

Or am I simply going to get the usual BS. If you want to discuss mental health, then you need to discuss what happens when someone is deemed "unworthy" and unable to then obtain a gun. How long does the moratorium on gun ownership last? What mental health issues keep you from getting a gun? Who decides who has mental health issues.?Etc. etc. All these discussions have been the "slippery slope" for the Right. So no discussion.

The Right says NO! And the Conversation ends. That's why you don't hear much about it.

a reply to: SecretsoftheBlueApples

Yes, and those are the types of drugs you should never stop taking abruptly. Most every drug you take that alters your brain chemistry you should wean off of.

originally posted by: MiddleInsite
a reply to: amazing

It doesn't get discussed because the Right believes mental health will be used as a way of keeping people from guns.

I believe Trump even made it easier for those with "problems" to get guns.

I'd would LOVE every gun owner to have to take a mental health test. Are you guys saying you want to talk about this?

Or am I simply going to get the usual BS. If you want to discuss mental health, then you need to discuss what happens when someone is deemed "unworthy" and unable to then obtain a gun. How long does the moratorium on gun ownership last? What mental health issues keep you from getting a gun? Who decides who has mental health issues.?Etc. etc. All these discussions have been the "slippery slope" for the Right. So no discussion.

The Right says NO! And the Conversation ends. That's why you don't hear much about it.

But there are other aspects like early intervention, counseling, affordable mental health care, more mental health resources for schools, anti bullying campaings and research.

a reply to: MiddleInsite

The problems comes when we start talking about mental illness as a measure of gun control.

Most of us want better mental illness services.

But saying, "If you were ever diagnosed with mental illness, then you shouldn't own or buy guns." Makes people nervous. It's like using the No Fly list as a criteria. You can get put on that list for all kinds of reasons with no due process.

So what would be the mental health criteria that bar you from ownership? That's where people get nervous and stop talking about it.

But just to say we need better mental health? No one disagrees with that.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: MiddleInsite

The problems comes when we start talking about mental illness as a measure of gun control.

Most of us want better mental illness services.

though isn't it a good idea to stop someone, say with Schizophrenia from optaining a gun?

The way overboard liberals would actually fit the profile of being mentally ill. So would the way overboard conservatives, some change is necessary, too much too fast is bad for society. I guess they do not want their rights taken away to own a gun while others still own them. Maybe they know their irrational behavior or the behavior of their young might be considered inappropriate, blame it on the gun and then these people can keep bashing everyone because they don't have guns to aim at them.

Well, that should draw the fire of the liberals here.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: amazing

It's called a wedge issue. Everyone is supposed to line up at polar opposites and indignantly sling poo at one another like the hairless chimps that we are.

Exactly

The entire concept of punishing the innocent for actions of the guilty is something both sides engage in depending on the issue. We are left with do we try to fit through the square or the round hole. Both Parties quake at the thought of people working together towards a common goal.

a reply to: amazing

The Republicans control Congress. There is where the money to do these things is. Ask them.

a reply to: amazing

Did I say it wasn't?