One way of defining the Christian God

a reply to: TzarChasm

You are only a prisoner if you have believed that you are the doer of actions.

You are all seeing and knowing and always present.

Okay, but don't forget the "Holy Spirit," which throws the Christian God construct completely out of whack and introduces (re-introduces, more accurately), the notion of transcendence through Gnosis and Sophia, the female counterpart to the Christ.

a reply to: Blue Shift
This thread originated as a response to a thread in the Philosophy forum, so the approach was more philosophical than theological.
However, the Holy Spirit is really one aspect of Communication, so it comes in under that heading.
The place of the Holy Spirit in Christian theology was one of the themes of my recent New Testament Salvation series.

a reply to: DISRAELI

OK... say God was incarnate ... got drunk one night and had sex with a hermaphrodite ... (person with two sexes) ... how does this relate to the "anti-homosexuality" word of God? Technically God didn't have sex with man, but he did have sex with man/woman.

a reply to: EraTera2
That's a hypothetical question, because that isn't how Incarnation happened.
My earlier thread Marriage and the God of love covers the question of human sexuality.
When you've been here longer, you will realise that i don't get drawn into issues not relating to the topic of the thread.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Technically, God is hypothetical too.

a reply to: EraTera2
At least God is on-topic. If you go off-topic, you will be ignored.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Title of thread does say "A way of defining God"

I'm trying to define God's sexuality

Seems like i'm on topic

originally posted by: EraTera2
a reply to: DISRAELI

OK... say God was incarnate ... got drunk one night and had sex with a hermaphrodite ... (person with two sexes) ... how does this relate to the "anti-homosexuality" word of God? Technically God didn't have sex with man, but he did have sex with man/woman.

Here's what I'm thinking. In this scenario this would only make the incarnate God half gay -- but it seems like in the Bible He was talking about being on "full" blown gay. So then if half gay is cool, then maybe like a bj is cool, but a full on gay thing is not cool.

So I think what God is saying with Hermaphrodite's is if you get drunk in Thailand and get a bj from a ladyboy -- its cool.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

For a correct understanding of who the God that is spoken of in the Bible is, i.e. “the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ”, and what he's like, I look to the same book. I don't need human philosophy nor eisegesis (the earlier mentioned desperately looking for or even twisting of Bible texts to lend support to one's teaching) to explain to me who the God described in the Bible is and what he's like. It's spelled out very clearly as well, it's not mysterious or vague as the doctrine of the Trinity, Binitarianism and other such philosophies that conflate Jesus with Jehovah, 2 distinct individuals as spelled out over and over in the Bible. Especially made clear once you start putting God's name back where it belongs in the translations, all approx. 7000 times. But even without that, it's still obvious (as for example demonstrated by the few texts that I quoted).

According to the Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel, “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.

John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: “The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are G[ree]k philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.”—(New York, 1965), p. 899.

Matthew 4:10

Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”

Deuteronomy 10:20,21

20 “Jehovah your God you should fear, him you should serve, to him you should cling, and by his name you should swear. 21 He is the One you are to praise. He is your God, who has done all these great and awe-inspiring things for you that your own eyes have seen.

Names are sort of useful in helping to identify someone, and I'm the first in this thread to mention Jehovah God and praise him I think (or suspect, haven't read all the comments). That in a thread that is supposed to define the Christian God, who is still Jehovah, not Jesus. Just like he is the God of our Lord Jesus Christ. Which automatically excludes Jesus Christ from being identified (or defined) as this particular God. Sadly, common sense and honest use of language seems to fly out the window when some people prefer eisegesis regarding this subject. Sometimes resulting in quite a bit of tapdancing around the plain straightforward understanding of texts such as Ephesians 1:3, John 17:3 and now the above texts as well.

I'm not sure, but I think that John L. McKenzie, when he says “the terms do not appear in the Bible” when referring to “The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’”, he's actually referring to as those terms are defined by Trinitarian philosophers and in Greek philosophy. It's the Greek words for ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ that do not appear in the Christian Greek Scriptures. I think the same word that the Greek philosophers used for ‘person’ is used in the Christian Greek Scriptures but not with the same attached meaning that the Greek philosophers attached to it (and later the Trinitarian philosophers picked up). But I could be wrong about that part. Not sure about the Greek word for ‘nature’. Wasn't sure if I should mention something about it at all, so see it for the sidethought that it is. It is also inconsequential to the main point for bringing it up as that relates to my point of not needing human philosophy or eisegesis to identify, define, describe or understand the God described in the Bible and identified as Jehovah, or Jehovah God.

Mark 12:29,30

Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah, 30 and you must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.’

Deuteronomy 6:4,5

4 “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. 5 You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength.

Jesus worshipped and prayed to the same God the Israelites worshipped and prayed to, just like the earliest Christians who lived while Christ and the Apostles were still alive.

a reply to: whereislogic

Why should God be feared?

Who would want to get close to this God if he is to be feared?

I stay away from scary people!

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: whereislogic

Why should God be feared?

Who would want to get close to this God if he is to be feared?

I stay away from scary people!

An alternate rendering for "fear" in that context (Deu 10:20) is "have reverence for". It's not talking about a morbid fear.

Same here:

“The fear of Jehovah is the start of wisdom.”​—PROVERBS 9:10. (The reverence for Jehovah is the start of wisdom, or reverential fear)

reverential - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com

The adjective reverential comes close to implying worship — a devoutly religious person feels reverential toward God, for example. It's rooted in the Latin word reverentia, "awe or respect," from revereri, "to stand in awe of, fear, or be afraid of."

There was a time when it was considered a compliment to describe someone as God-fearing. Today, many find the concept of fearing God quaint but hard to understand. ‘If God is love,’ they may ask, ‘why should I fear him?’ To them, fear is a negative, even paralyzing, emotion. True fear of God, however, has a much broader meaning and is not just a feeling or an emotion.

In Biblical usage the fear of God is a positive concept. (Isaiah 11:3) It is a profound reverence and deep respect for God, a strong desire not to displease him. (Psalm 115:11) It includes acceptance of and strict adherence to God’s moral standards and a desire to live by what God says is right or wrong. One reference work points out that such a wholesome fear expresses “a fundamental attitude toward God that leads to wise behavior and the avoidance of every form of evil.” Appropriately, God’s Word tells us: “The fear of Jehovah is the start of wisdom.”​—Proverbs 9:10.

Indeed, the fear of God encompasses a wide range of human experience. It is associated not only with wisdom but also with joy, peace, prosperity, longevity, hope, trust, and confidence. (Psalm 2:11; Proverbs 1:7; 10:27; 14:26; 22:4; 23:17, 18; Acts 9:31) It is closely related to faith and love. In fact, it involves our entire relationship with God and with fellow humans. (Deuteronomy 10:12; Job 6:14; Hebrews 11:7) Fear of God includes the deep conviction that our heavenly Father personally cares for us and is ready to forgive our transgressions. (Psalm 130:4) Only the unrepentant wicked have reason to be terrified of God.​—Hebrews 10:26-31.

Many examples of God-fearing men and women are recorded in the Scriptures “for our instruction.” (Romans 15:4) For example, Jehovah rejected Israel’s first king, Saul, for his fear of the people and his lack of godly fear. (1 Samuel 15:24-26) On the other hand, David’s life course and his intimate relationship with Jehovah identify him as a truly God-fearing man. From his early years, David was often out pasturing his father’s sheep. (1 Samuel 16:11) Nights spent shepherding under the stars must have helped David to understand the fear of Jehovah. Though David could discern only a small part of the immensity of the universe, he drew the right conclusion​—God merits our respect and adoration. “When I see your heavens, the works of your fingers, the moon and the stars that you have prepared,” he later wrote, “what is mortal man that you keep him in mind, and the son of earthling man that you take care of him?”​—Psalm 8:3, 4.

Rightly, David was impressed when he compared his smallness with the vast starry heavens. Rather than frightening him, this knowledge moved him to praise Jehovah and say: “The heavens are declaring the glory of God; and of the work of his hands the expanse is telling.” (Psalm 19:1) This reverence for God drew David closer to Jehovah and made David want to learn and follow His perfect ways. Imagine how David felt when he sang to Jehovah: “You are great and are doing wondrous things; you are God, you alone. Instruct me, O Jehovah, about your way. I shall walk in your truth. Unify my heart to fear your name.”​—Psalm 86:10, 11.

Giving credit (praise) where credit is due, it's a bit of an issue for some people even when they claim to be Christian or to be getting their information about God from the Bible.


Among the Hebrew words that are translated “God” is ʼEl, probably meaning “Mighty One; Strong One.” (Ge 14:18) It is used with reference to Jehovah, to other gods, and to men. In some places ʼEl appears with the definite article (ha·ʼElʹ, literally, “the God”) with reference to Jehovah, thereby distinguishing him from other gods.​—Ge 46:3; 2Sa 22:31.

At Isaiah 9:6 Jesus Christ is prophetically called ʼEl Gib·bohrʹ, “Mighty God” (not ʼEl Shad·daiʹ [God Almighty], which is applied to Jehovah at Genesis 17:1).

The Hebrew word ʼelo·himʹ (gods) appears to be from a root meaning “be strong.” ʼElo·himʹ is the plural of ʼelohʹah (god). Sometimes this plural refers to a number of gods (Ge 31:30, 32; 35:2), but more often it is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. ʼElo·himʹ is used in the Scriptures with reference to Jehovah himself, to angels, to idol gods (singular and plural), and to men.

When applying to Jehovah, ʼElo·himʹ is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. (Ge 1:1) The title ʼElo·himʹ draws attention to Jehovah’s strength as the Creator. It appears 35 times by itself in the account of creation, and every time the verb describing what he said and did is in the singular number. (Ge 1:1–2:4)

In many places in the Scriptures ʼElo·himʹ is also found preceded by the definite article ha. (Ge 5:22) Concerning the use of ha·ʼElo·himʹ, F. Zorell says: “In the Holy Scriptures especially the one true God, Jahve, is designated by this word; . . . ‘Jahve is the [one true] God’ De 4:35; 4:39; Jos 22:34; 2Sa 7:28; 1Ki 8:60 etc.”​—Lexicon Hebraicum Veteris Testamenti, Rome, 1984, p. 54; brackets his. As you can see he uses a different spelling for “Jehovah”, but it's still not Jesus.

The true God is not a nameless God. His name is Jehovah. (De 6:4; Ps 83:18) He is God by reason of his creatorship. (Ge 1:1; Re 4:11) The true God is real (Joh 7:28), a person (Ac 3:19; Heb 9:24), and not lifeless natural law operating without a living lawgiver, not blind force working through a series of accidents to develop one thing or another. The 1956 edition of The Encyclopedia Americana (Vol. XII, p. 743) commented under the heading “God”: “In the Christian, Mohammedan, and Jewish sense, the Supreme Being, the First Cause, and in a general sense, as considered nowadays throughout the civilized world, a spiritual being, self-existent, eternal and absolutely free and all-powerful, distinct from the matter which he has created in many forms, and which he conserves and controls. There does not seem to have been a period of history where mankind was without belief in a supernatural author and governor of the universe.”

The fact of the existence of God is proved by the order, power, and complexity of creation, macroscopic and microscopic, and through his dealings with his people throughout history. Everywhere there is testimony to his activity and his greatness. The true God is not omnipresent, for he is spoken of as having a location. (1Ki 8:49; Joh 16:28; Heb 9:24) His throne is in heaven. (Isa 66:1)

a reply to: Itisnowagain
Note what I quoted from vocabulary.com in my previous comment in comparison with the context of Deuteronomy 10:20,21:

20 “Jehovah your God you should fear, him you should serve, to him you should cling, and by his name you should swear. 21 He is the One you are to praise. He is your God, who has done all these great and awe-inspiring things for you that your own eyes have seen.

... It's rooted in the Latin word reverentia, "awe or respect," from revereri, "to stand in awe of, fear, or be afraid of."

So, pretty obvious again what kind of fear it's talking about there. Not the negative morbid kind (which is also defined in the medical dictionary under phobia, but I won't bother you with that definition because that's not the type of fear Deuteronomy 10:20 is talking about, or other similar verses that speak about the fear of God).

a reply to: whereislogic

Thank you.
I totally get the awe explaination, that feeling is known here.....