Deputize Teachers

originally posted by: eNumbra

Desensitization is real; desensitization doesn’t make killers. Holding a weapon or watching a movie doesn’t make killers. The psychology behind these people is complex and doesn’t start with “watched a violent movie when they were young”, if that were true we’d all have popped by now.

What about that concept is difficult?

You are pretending that the mental chemistry of everyone reacts in the same way to all things.

That could not be further from the truth.

You must keep in mind that it's not the "average" mentally stable individual that takes up arms and shoots up schools, so yes, it is absolutely possible that movies, video games, and many other media-related catalysts could cause an unhealthy problem to get worse, leading to what we see like in Florida. IT might also initiate unhealthy problems that may otherwise have not manifested.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
The military spends thousands of hours and millions of dollars conditioning soldiers to kill. If all it took was some time on Call of Duty the defense budget would be much smaller.

Actually, the military doesn't so much condition a person to kill as it does to follow a chain of command. Sometimes that involves killing, but for the most part it's about teaching people how to work within a large organization and do your job right. Many veterans will tell you that was the most important thing they got out of the military.

OP I get where you are going and I agree. But the "Police" are not who needs to do it. The County Sheriff's need to deputize teachers. City police are not "law enforcement", they are ordinance and and code enforcement.
When is the last time you voted for a "Police Chief"? Yeah, I didn't think so.
But I get where you are going. I agree every "teacher" should have the full force of the law behind them. They should probably be issued "badges" as well.
There's a reason there's no "police stations" being attacked by not jobs. Hmm? I wonder why?
But we can't make society so safe, that LEO'S will be out of work. Probably have to "bargain" with your local "police union" on that.
Can't have people handling their own "safety". The SWAT teams will be back dropping their heels, writing parking tickets.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

It MAY. There's no evidence to suggest that any kind of media has played a role in any mass shooting. And even if it was shown that it did what's the solution? Censorship?

Every First World country (and most other countries as well) has access to the same media that we do in the US. The kids in those countries aren't going around and shooting up their schools. So what is the X factor that makes that an acceptable course of action for a disparate number of kids in the US?

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: eNumbra

Desensitization is real; desensitization doesn’t make killers. Holding a weapon or watching a movie doesn’t make killers. The psychology behind these people is complex and doesn’t start with “watched a violent movie when they were young”, if that were true we’d all have popped by now.

What about that concept is difficult?

You are pretending that the mental chemistry of everyone reacts in the same way to all things.

That could not be further from the truth.

You must keep in mind that it's not the "average" mentally stable individual that takes up arms and shoots up schools, so yes, it is absolutely possible that movies, video games, and many other media-related catalysts could cause an unhealthy problem to get worse, leading to what we see like in Florida. IT might also initiate unhealthy problems that may otherwise have not manifested.

And if 100 million others consume the same media and aren’t affected, then the one is little more than a statistical outlier on th furthest end of the scale,

And it might not and something else might have, someone with an underlying problem will eventually crack, the problem is the problem.

Besides, everything I’ve read about this, the lack of response to obvious red flags are what made this kid worse.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: howtonhawky

The military spends thousands of hours and millions of dollars conditioning soldiers to kill. If all it took was some time on Call of Duty the defense budget would be much smaller.

lol your point is not valid

last time i checked boot camp was only a few weeks

i am confused as to what you two are protecting here?

a reply to: Blue Shift

If a person works at a highly structured company with a clear chain of command and their boss tells them to shoot another person, even if they did it there would be some hesitation. One of the key goals of military training is to condition soldiers so they don't have that hesitation.

Whether its a natural instinct or just generations of evolutionary psychology the average human recoils at the act of killing another human. To be an effective soldier this needs to be trained out of you.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

now you confuse murder and killing

a reply to: howtonhawky

i am confused as to what you two are protecting here?

The First Amendment. But I forgot that here in America only the Second is sacred.

Fact: Guns are involved in 100% of all school shootings.

How many are inspired by violent media?

Note: I'm not even proposing a gun ban or anything. I'm just trying to point out the hypocrisy that while some people balk at any attempt to curtail the Second Amendment those same people are seemingly trying to curtail the First. There is a deeper issue here than violent media or guns and until we actually address that issue instead of looking for scapegoats this will continue.

a reply to: howtonhawky

Any difference between the two is semantics. It's still the taking of a human life.

Hell, at least murderers generally have a reason. Soldiers go out and kill people they know nothing about because their government told them to.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
Whether its a natural instinct or just generations of evolutionary psychology the average human recoils at the act of killing another human. To be an effective soldier this needs to be trained out of you.

I think what it does more than that is put people in situations where they either have to kill or be killed. At that point, it's all up for grabs.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

There is a deeper issue here than violent media or guns and until we actually address that issue instead of looking for scapegoats this will continue.

not escapegoats but underlying causes
what is that deeper issue that concerns you

so you agree with me that we don't need new laws to allow guns at school since locals can just deputize if they have a need in that area

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: howtonhawky

Any difference between the two is semantics. It's still the taking of a human life.

Hell, at least murderers generally have a reason. Soldiers go out and kill people they know nothing about because their government told them to.

TOTAL B.S.

murder is not the same as killing

what you may mean is that death is the same in murder and killing but valid causes to end a life are justified in some situations of killing but in situations of murder is never justified

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: howtonhawky

Any difference between the two is semantics. It's still the taking of a human life.

Hell, at least murderers generally have a reason. Soldiers go out and kill people they know nothing about because their government told them to.

TOTAL B.S.

murder is not the same as killing

what you may mean is that death is the same in murder and killing but valid causes to end a life are justified in some situations of killing but in situations of murder is never justified

a reply to: Xcalibur254

The meds that we give our students, IMO. I think that it's the root cause of most of the ingredients.

a reply to: eNumbra

You're missing the point, though--kids and people who shoot up schools and theaters and shopping malls are statistical outliers as well.

That's my point--we never know who it will affect in this way because it is such a statistical anomaly that we have no way to predict it or even pinpoint the problem.

I don't know about deputizing teachers, but our kids deserve to be as secure in school as our elected leaders are in Congress or the White House protected by their armed security.

If a teacher happens to be qualified, by all means let them carry in school to backup the main security. If they want to go through training then yes to them also.

What's happening is a fact of life now and those still fighting the idea of secure schools are partly to blame for anything that happens, that could have been stopped or the impact lessened by armed security on site.

a reply to: howtonhawky

No, it doesn't. Have you read the Old Testament? That book is filled to the brim with violent death, talk of eternal damnation, human sacrifce (especially sacrificing first born children), stoning people to death, people literally being turned to stone for sinning, and so on and so forth. Yet, the Bible is upheld consistently as something people should read and use as a guide for morality.

Have you read any of the very old fables and parable stories for children? Children falling from trees to the ground? The Big Bad Wolf eating the little Piggies? Snow White being poisoned by the evil Queen? Cinderella being abused by her stepmother and sisters? "Ashes ashes, we all fall down?" That line from a children's rhyming song is about the Black Death!

Those types of media have been fed to our children since people could learn to read, with much of that being given as life lessons.

Violence has always been a part of society from the beginning. Tribes killing other tribes over land, food and culture differences. They didn't have video games or movies back then, did they? Pretty sure Ghenghis Khan wasn't a Call of Duty player.

Ban violent games, movies, books and the like and a person prone to violence will find another outlet. Perhaps they'll move on to small animals and children, eventually adults. Your simplistic view that media is a huge boogeyman falls flat when you look back at the history of violence in society.

I thought we were thinking animals? I thought we had the free will and capacity to make rational decisions about what we allow to unduly influence us? Are we seriously going to sit back and blame video games when some kid behaves criminally? Or are we going to dig deeper and see if the kid was being abused at home? See if the kid was born addicted to drugs or alcohol? See if he's being tormented at school, or has been placed on 'happy pills' because his parents and the teachers can't handle a high energy child?

You have terrorism and civil/gang war all over the world, much of that in areas where they're too poor for games and movies.

Sorry. I've been a gamer most of my life. I love movies with high action and explosions. I read a ton of horror books. I don't own a gun and never want to do so however. I'd freeze up and be unable to act if someone shoved a gun in my hand and told me to defend myself.

You can find numbers to back up any sort of boogeyman you want if you try hard enough. People love to find the soft targets though. Video games and movies, right? But sports like boxing and MMA fighting are just peachy. No violence against another human being there!

a reply to: howtonhawky

A soldier in Iraq has an insurgent he's never met in his sights.

A terminally bullied high schooler had his chief tormentor in his sights.

Who is justified in pulling the trigger?

a reply to: neo96

There's reason to, at the least, give that idea some thought.

That would certainly preclude any reason to turn the schools into fortresses...or, conversely, leaving them as all you can shoot killing fields...

Maybe it's unworkable, maybe it's not...but it's something to look at. IMVHO.