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Deputize Teachers

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posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 08:58 PM
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i think its a terrible idea and it is begging for a police state. ban the over medicating of our children and install metal detectors at entrances and exits, that last part makes my skin crawl. the fact that we have let it get to this point is shameful.
edit on 22-2-2018 by conspiracy nut because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 22 2018 @ 10:02 PM
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originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Byrd

Does the posting of armed guards, who actually know their business, really render schools into prisons?


I assume you saw the story today about the guard.


I did. Less than impressed, obviously. Which is why it's not the greatest of ideas, but it's doing something, more or less, constructive, to address the security concerns. Equally obviously, the fewer like that jackass involved, the better. Schools need to be protected--solutions better than armed security welcomed gladly.




That's only part of a solution, if indeed it is one. The solutions, since there's more than one issue, lie long before a would be shooter is confronted by the armed guard.

And it can easily start with teachers having more time and resources to deal with students and a smaller class size. Teachers have stopped many tragedies even before they started.


Yes they have. I'm not going to argue that with you, we've both seen and heard the stories. But they're in as much, if not more danger, in these situations as the kids are. Dead children are horrific, the death of a teacher who gives enough of a damn to step in between a madman and kids is equally tragic. If it helps, view the guards as an additional tool in the teachers tool box. Again, if y'all can come up with a solution to help secure the schools, w/o armed guards...I'm wanting to hear it.



I'd rather the schools be "prisons", than the shooting galleries we've seen in the past. Of the two, prisons will at least send the kids home at the end of the day, rather than to hospital/or worse.

But aren't you one of those who thinks the modern school does a lot of disservice to our kids?


I am, as you know, highly critical of public education, or at least many parts of it. We've had that particular conversation before... Never been a fan of everyone graduates, or advances...etc. I'm also a proponent of teachers being able to maintain order in their classrooms, and no, before anyone (not you) says it, I'm not in favor, save as a last extremity, arming teachers--they've enough on their plates. Were I a parent, I'm not sure I'd have my kids in a public school environment, and yes one of those reasons is the shootings, not the only one, or even the main one, but it is one. Not just public schools are in danger of this, I imagine the private Catholic schools, and the like, are at just as much a risk. I'd venture to guess I'd probably look into home schooling, or some form of internet schooling.

Sorry, a long answer to a very short question...



I don't think that kind of atmosphere will help.


No, it certainly wouldn't. Won't argue that at all. Seems obvious to me, as well. I'm open to solutions that help protect the kids, teachers, and others. I don't have any, or no real good ones. You're smarter than me, so maybe you've got some?



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 02:30 AM
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originally posted by: seagull

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Byrd

Does the posting of armed guards, who actually know their business, really render schools into prisons?


I assume you saw the story today about the guard.


I did. Less than impressed, obviously. Which is why it's not the greatest of ideas, but it's doing something, more or less, constructive, to address the security concerns. Equally obviously, the fewer like that jackass involved, the better. Schools need to be protected--solutions better than armed security welcomed gladly.


I think we probably agree with this in general though we probably disagree on how to accomplish it.




Yes they have. I'm not going to argue that with you, we've both seen and heard the stories. But they're in as much, if not more danger, in these situations as the kids are. Dead children are horrific, the death of a teacher who gives enough of a damn to step in between a madman and kids is equally tragic. If it helps, view the guards as an additional tool in the teachers tool box. Again, if y'all can come up with a solution to help secure the schools, w/o armed guards...I'm wanting to hear it.

Guards rather clearly aren't the solution. As I understand it, the school did have guards (more than one) and was fenced and had restricted entry.

There are lots of schools with no guards that don't have gun problems.


I'm not in favor, save as a last extremity, arming teachers--they've enough on their plates. Were I a parent, I'm not sure I'd have my kids in a public school environment, and yes one of those reasons is the shootings, not the only one, or even the main one, but it is one.


Many people feel this way. It would be a shame to lose free public education.


Not just public schools are in danger of this, I imagine the private Catholic schools, and the like, are at just as much a risk. I'd venture to guess I'd probably look into home schooling, or some form of internet schooling.

Haven't seen it with private schooling but I'm not really in contact with that crowd. I do know of problems arising from home schooling and that it's not free from violence.




I don't think that kind of atmosphere will help.


No, it certainly wouldn't. Won't argue that at all. Seems obvious to me, as well. I'm open to solutions that help protect the kids, teachers, and others. I don't have any, or no real good ones. You're smarter than me, so maybe you've got some?

My preferences are dismissed out of hand for the most part, so I was asking what you might suggest other than "armed guards everywhere" - that situation leads to imbalances in power and can lead to even more abuse (harsh discipline, an atmosphere of fear, etc.)

What public school models do you know of that seem safe - and what kind of culture is creating those?



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 08:54 AM
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a reply to: Aazadan

Like I've said in other places, I think that the root cause is the prevalence of certain medications that dick with the chemistry of the brain, coupled with all of this other stuff.

I have never claimed, though, that media is the main problem, just one of many possible catalysts.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 11:05 AM
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Whether it's enemy soldiers and civilians, our own troops, or our kids in schools, the price of freedom will always be lives.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 11:17 AM
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So to sum up my thought on the situation

lets not make it mandatory to have armed guards in every school

let's keep it on a local level and let certain teachers that want to get a certain required amount of training agreed to in order to responsibly carry concealed in the classroom. lets us not pass a law to enforces this but instead have the certain teachers deputized and receive extra pay under existing laws.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 12:39 PM
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originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Aazadan

Like I've said in other places, I think that the root cause is the prevalence of certain medications that dick with the chemistry of the brain, coupled with all of this other stuff.

I have never claimed, though, that media is the main problem, just one of many possible catalysts.



Medications aren't present in just the US though, people all over the world are medicated. The trigger would logically be something unique to the US.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 02:02 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

Logic would dictate that you have to be proactive to stop a shooter. Being reactive plays into their hands. One qualified person with a weapon in the vicinity can stop it in seconds. Locking yourself in a room will not stop a motivated person who can easily go through a wall.

Just a few people on campus in a position to defend the children and even if it only saves a few lives, it's worth it and doable.

Why take a bullet and then leave the kids unprotected anyway? Just the knowledge that there are people on site who can stop a shooter will go a long ways to making sure they don't try in the first place. That's just plain old common sense IMO.

Thanks for the conversation and I'm sure there is a middle ground here that would make the kids safer. People need to get past the idea inanimate objects are evil and face the reality that only a gun can stop someone with a gun. In the right hands a gun is a weapon for good.

That guard was an anomaly and meaningless in this debate.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: Byrd

That guard was an anomaly and meaningless in this debate.


I'm not so sure (though in his defense he might not have been aware that there was a situation until several minutes after he arrived. I don't know.)

A lot of people trained to shoot still freeze when confronted with a real person and a real rapid-fire, high muzzle velocity weapon (or any gun, actually.) There are statistics from many wars that indicate this, and those are situations where people are aware they're going into a fight and are prepared to shoot at other people.

Having a gun does not magically put up a force field around you (ala Hollywood) that keeps you safe from bullets while you're shooting at the other guy. And if there's three or four people running around with guns and shooting (trying to take down the bad guy), it's awfully easy for someone to see "GUN" and shoot the wrong person.

But let's look at a different idea: How do we stop weapons on school campuses in the first place? I see two sources - kids and adults. The kids are children who show up with guns (either to show their friends, or to sell to someone, or brought with the intent to shoot at another person, or even just to wave around to scare someone off) and adults. The kids might either be students or someone who looks like a student (who is in that age range.) The adults may be people who are supposed to be on campus (parents, school personnel, approved visitors) or adults who have managed to get into the area (parents in a custody case not approved for school pickup and everyone else in the area.) Any one of these could have the same motives for having a gun as a kid: to show to someone, to sell, to use it to shoot at someone, OR simply to carry because it makes them feel safer or it makes them feel like a hero.

So - eight sources for guns on a school campus:
Kid - show gun to friends
kid - sell gun
kid - intent to use gun on someone
kid - use gun for threat/protection

adult - show gun to friends
adult - sell gun
adult - intent to use gun on someone
adult - protection/threat

Are there other ways that guns get on campus? Does breaking it down like this make a better way to look at things to determine what should be done?

Of course, you also have to know what schools ordinarily do as a preventive measure. Nowadays most schools have some sort of visitor vetting program and most public schools have doors that will NOT grant access to the building unless you can prove to the people monitoring the door that you have some sort of reason to be there. So there's already some kind of security in place. Some even have bag searches and metal detectors.

And if we stop the first seven groups from ever getting a gun on campus, doesn't it make the eighth one unnecessary?



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 02:31 PM
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Let me answer this one:


originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: Byrd

Why take a bullet and then leave the kids unprotected anyway?


Because that's part of my background and personal ethics. You don't leave anyone behind. You are responsible for their lives, which means you're the last one leaving the area... even if it means a bullet to the head.

This is true for me, even though the ones I teach are not age 60 and older. These adults are my responsibility. If the building is on fire or there's a shooter, I will not abandon any of my students and I will leave only after I see that all of them are safe.

That's just my own personal code of conduct.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 02:34 PM
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Yes, let's do it, that way not only do we have to worry about some nut job snapping and walking into the school - we can also worry about some under paid teacher snapping and blasting students away.

10/10 Internet Logic.

Would recommend.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 02:34 PM
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Seems to me there are enough military veterans returning home that have the training to protect schools and end anyone who tries to play soldier against innocent kids.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 02:34 PM
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a reply to: Byrd


A lot of people trained to shoot still freeze when confronted with a real person and a real rapid-fire, high muzzle velocity weapon (or any gun, actually.) There are statistics from many wars that indicate this, and those are situations where people are aware they're going into a fight and are prepared to shoot at other people.


I've been bringing this up in a number of threads. It takes a lot of time and money to condition someone to be able to kill another human without hesitation. Even then that training isn't perfect. And then throw in the fact that the target is a kid. Even soldiers that have no problem shooting another soldier hesitate when the target is a kid they don't know.

But apparently giving guns to teachers who will have a weekend's worth of training once a year will be able to put down a child they taught with no hesitation.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 02:36 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth

And we will pay them with what? We don't even give schools enough money to pay for chalk.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 03:38 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555
That guard was an anomaly and meaningless in this debate.

It takes a lot of wind out of the "if we had armed guards they would stop the shooter" argument. A lot. However, if he was an anomaly, I guess we'll find out after we've had a few more attacks on schools that already have armed guards in place. Then we can do a statistical analysis to find out which scenario works best.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 04:45 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

I think you misunderstood what I meant or I worded it badly. I meant that the shooter would just keep shooting and it would be for nothing in the end. Now running at the shooter and trying to disarm him would be wiser IMO if you're going to be shot anyway.

That guard is an anomaly and I won't come off that. To suggest that all people who run towards the gunfire as part of their jobs would all freeze is more hyperbole.

Why is the extreme security in airports a good thing, but having the same to protect our children a bad thing is a question I ask myself.

As to guns, if a nut wants one, they will get one, even if guns are outlawed right now they will be able to get one no problem. They will get it off campus, so I'm not sure what you are actually saying with that list?




edit on 2/23/2018 by Blaine91555 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 04:56 PM
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originally posted by: Blue Shift
Then we can do a statistical analysis to find out which scenario works best.


Well that is how government works, studies, more studies and years later a report not acted on because it's no longer in the public eye. It's a way of avoiding taking a political risk for the sake of the kids and committing to a plan. Lets face it, nothings going to happen of any note and anything that does is going to be local and that's perhaps for the best. Fed's like to pretend they can do things that can only be done locally in the first place.

Politicians are not waking up saying how can we make our kids safe, they wake up thinking how can I look like I'm doing something for my next election bid and how can I use the media to make me look good.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 05:13 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555
Lets face it, nothings going to happen of any note and anything that does is going to be local and that's perhaps for the best.

I completely agree with this. Just looking at the nature of the phenomenon, it's bound to happen again regardless what anybody does about it because even though it seems like it's happening all over, it's still outlier behavior perpetrated by individuals who are not acting within well-defined societal parameters. It's unpredictable and no matter what we do we won't be able to stop them whether we ban all guns or legislate that everybody must own a gun, lock all the kids up in school prisons or close schools entirely. The motivated crazies will just improvise and use explosives or fire or knives or speeding vehicles.

The price of freedom is always lives.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 05:18 PM
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a reply to: Blue Shift

Even inside a prison, inmates can get weapons.



posted on Feb, 23 2018 @ 05:23 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555
Even inside a prison, inmates can get weapons.

And it's hard to stop a person from committing suicide, which is what a lot of these shooters are ultimately trying to do.



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